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Daily Army Saim Hann - One Turn Games

Command Points
Battle Forged 3
Battalion Detachment 3
Outrider Detachment 1
Total CP 7

Total Points 1997

Battalion Detachment
Autarch Skyrunner, laser lance, eye on distant events, The novalance of saim-hann 108
Autarch Skyrunner, laser lance 108
Shining Spears (6) star lance 189
Shining Spears (6) star lance 189
Shining Spears (6) star lance 189
Ranger (6) 72
Ranger (5) 60
Ranger (5) 60

Outrider Detachment
Autarch Skyrunner, laser lance 108
Shining Spears (6) star lance 189
Shining Spears (6) star lance 189
Shining Spears (6) star lance 189
Shining Spears (6) star lance 189
Shining Spears (5) star lance 158




Warlord Trait eye on distant events
Fun, or maybe necessary Stratagems
Webway strike
Warrior of the Raging Winds

Another Simple army.
Based on the numbers, this Army dishes our more damage per turn than any other 2000 army in 40K.
After countless hours …. days … months of analysis, Shining Spear dish out a greater amount damage (combination shooting and fight) per point than any other unit in 40K.
Fly this army at your enemy as quickly and directly as possible. Use stratagems and re-roles to ensure a couple of the larger squads of Shining Spears charge 1st turn.
Autarch fly behind but with the shining spears, and charge into the fray.
Rangers sit on objectives.
I have never played a game with this army in which the opponent had any models left on the board after the 3rd turn.
Enjoy!

yeah...that is pretty much unbeatable.

Nah, you missed the Banshee Masks on the Autarch's

I would happily play this list with my foot guard list. You've got way to much overkill to handle lots of little worthless guard squads there, enough I can garentee no matter what you do on turn one you can't table me, and a poor model count that means my following deepstrike is going to cause you all sorts of problems.

Against smaller elite armies, I agree you're going to roflstomp them. I think a green tide would also pose you serious problems.

I agree with Halsey(and the spartan program) that against a lot of the meta elite armies like death guard that I see a lot it could table them because they only have so many units/models. I think against horde or larger space marine armies it will struggle. Still a strong army but will have a harder time. My current BA list I am testing is running 78 bodies. I feel my list would give it a run for the money because you will have to get close which also means more shooting and charging for me.

Lists with a lot of bubble wrap will pose problems too. A Russ spam list with enough wrap and you won't get within 6" to use those laser lances that often. Then you have to suck up a round of Russ Shooting, which will suck even with 4++ saves.

It's strong, no doubt, but not auto-win against all comers.

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Lists with a lot of bubble wrap will pose problems too. A Russ spam list with enough wrap and you won't get within 6" to use those laser lances that often. Then you have to suck up a round of Russ Shooting, which will suck even with 4++ saves.

It's strong, no doubt, but not auto-win against all comers.

You can easily use bubble wrap units against a player. It is so flipping easy to surround a unit so it can't fall back when you assault it.

The only problem with this list is how it is organized and how it has no spirit seers or farseers.
There should be 2 9 man units of spears a farseer and 2 spirit seers and you only need 1 autarc so that is pretty easy to change up.

My math might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure 6 shining spears with a star lance is 188 points.

Tricktock wrote:
My math might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure 6 shining spears with a star lance is 188 points.

If your maths is wrong so is mine. 5 spears + 1 Exarch with starlance is 188 total

I would have to find room for one ynarri detachment with 1 troop, one 10 man dark reaper squad and a unit of spears.

Spears + SfD and reapers shooting twice with SfD is just too good to pass on. Also a crimson hunter or hemlock would make a nice piece to put the final wounds on something your spears can't reach. 18 reapers shots + flyer = dead whatever you can see.

Either way I wouldn't be happy to see this across from me at the table unless I was running some kind of majority deepstrike army..

 Xenomancers wrote:

You can easily use bubble wrap units against a player. It is so flipping easy to surround a unit so it can't fall back when you assault it.

Well, yeah, but lets assume for the sake of this thought experiment that we have the right bubble wrap deployed well in the hands of a capable and canny player. If the guy can't play his army it doesn't really matter what he's fielding.

That said, I've got a Dakka heavy list that would kill maybe 20-25 Spears assuming everything is in range and average rolling etc etc. Which is great except that he has 47 of the flippin' things, and the perfect storm of range etc is rare beyond the telling. Yeah, the Spears list is dead 'ard.

Love the comments.
Don't forget each bike has 4 shots with a shuriken catapult.

The math behind the army is:

The force deals on average.

111 kills per turn to Space Marines (90 kills to Primaris)
143 kills per turn to Orcs-Eldar-Guardsman
74 kills per turn to Terminators
102 Wounds per turn to T7 SV 3+ Tanks/Monsters
93 Wounds per turn to T7 SV3+ flyers
89 Wounds per turn to Imperial Knights
77 Wounds per turn to Land Raiders

The wounds turn out to be quite a bit more, as the analysis does not include the use of the Autarch re-roll ability and the use of stratagems.

Every iteration of the game I have played with this army Against, Elite armies, huge Mobs, Lords of War, Vehicle and Monster Heavy....

There was just nothing left after the first turn.

The 2 or 3 games I played where the opponent sits on the back of the board, it took two turns.

They Move 16" Advance 6" Shoot 12" and 6"
34" to 28" inch range.

Yeah look I'm not one to do this but I am going to question your reporting and/or ownership of this list here.


1) I do feel like nids/guard could well hold out, or provide some contest. If you're in a meta that gladly and openly accepts nearly 50 spears and two autarchs, then I don't think it's a far stretch to imagine you've gone up against 400+ conscripts or something equally ludicrous.
2) Furthermore, what if you don't get the first turn and end up against a list that is similarly alpha-strikey? Again, assuming your meta is just as spammy as this list I can easily imagine about 70 death company dropping in and tearing up.
3) Pre-nerf, I think Lawrence's razor-spam list would still not lose to this list, and surely you would have vs'd that at some stage?

Obviously, it's a solid concept. Taking the strongest unit in the game and spamming USD $800 worth of it will win you some games. However I don't believe it's unbeatable.

If you could link us a batrep, it'd help out a lot Sorry if this comes across as confrontational, I'm just a bit of a skeptic.

It’s interesting, I’d like to see some batreps like others for it to be a bit more convincing, math is one thing, but players skill plays a massive part as well.

I’d quite like to see it tested against lists like:
- Magnus + Mortarion + renegade knight and the usual brims
- conscript Spam With psykers and mortar support
- Eldar reaper spam, with like 35-40 reapers + rangers, hawks and 2 serpents for bubble wrap.
- Grey Knight power Armour Spam, take some acolytes and Guard psykers, deploy them hidden, then deep strike 50 power armour bodies with draigo for re rolls and a brother captain for 24” smite. Take as many psilencers as possible, with the storm bolsters will simply alpha strike you off the board.

Don’t get me wrong it’s a strong list, but you haven’t factored in going second for one thing. I reckon at a big event with good players you’ll go 3 wins and 2 losses at best.

dmetzkayak wrote:
The 2 or 3 games I played where the opponent sits on the back of the board, it took two turns.

They Move 16" Advance 6" Shoot 12" and 6"
34" to 28" inch range.

And that's where you are doing it wrong, anyone with a brain will sit at the back of the board so your 1st turn win is a pure fantasy here. Put in 6+ Warlock Skyrunners with Quicken so that you can get 2-3 units of Spears way into the back lines and fly over most bubble wrap however, and you can then pull off some of those 1st turn charges that you want.

You can't cast Quicken more than once...

I agree.

If I was facing this list I’d make sure I’m starting right at the back of my deployment zone/out of LoS for the first turn.

If I was going first, I wouldn’t move anywhere, and just shoot what I can. This would limit any first turn charges to 1 unit only, giving me then full control in turn 2.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
You can't cast Quicken more than once...

Depends where you play really doesn't it

Lithanial wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
You can't cast Quicken more than once...

Depends where you play really doesn't it

In Matched Play, you can't cast the same psychic power more than once outside of Smite. As the list is not using Power Levels, it appears this is intended for Matched Play. In order to have a civil conversation on an internet forum, we generally assume we are abiding by the rules of the game IOT discuss armies, tactics, etc... Providing advice that is not allowed by the rules of the game is generally unhelpful.

 Sarigar wrote:

Lithanial wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
You can't cast Quicken more than once...

Depends where you play really doesn't it

In Matched Play, you can't cast the same psychic power more than once outside of Smite. As the list is not using Power Levels, it appears this is intended for Matched Play. In order to have a civil conversation on an internet forum, we generally assume we are abiding by the rules of the game IOT discuss armies, tactics, etc... Providing advice that is not allowed by the rules of the game is generally unhelpful.

Further more, if this was a narrative play list, I would have several unpleasent things to say. As a competative list, it's a hands done reasonable sesible choice, and I think everyone is commenting on the basis it's designed for competative games people are playing to win, not tell a story.

Wow... that is just... expensive. I'd love to run something similar, but holy crap who can afford that many Spears?!

Needs some Windriders w/Scatter to help clear wraps. Maybe another detachment to help with slots and a Warlock Skyrunner with protect/jinx as i find that can ruin a unit. With the Saim-Hann trait letting them move and shot at full BS they can bring back those bad dreams from the past. Besides have to do something with all the scatterbikes shelved at the start of 8th.

A nearly equally high damage output alpha strike army, with good rolls, that gets first turn, has a fair chance of doing enough damage first turn 1st turn to win.

Synposis of two battles that the army played against.

Horde
Against the 300 guardsmen, the shining spears army was setup on in tight formation on the left side of the board. It took 2 turns to wipe the horde clear. The hoard could not get enough of its weapons to bear on the army.

Elite Alpha Strike

The death company variant actually did a lot of damage off the back 4 15 man blobs of Death Company with Lemartes and a Chaplain supported by 6 scout squads in the back. 4 of the Death Company Squads and Lemartes made their charge on the first turn, and could have wiped this army, except for bad dice rolling. I have not yet calculated the odds, but I am fairly certain that the Death Company should have one the game, with average dice rolling.

This army was shared not to post an unbeatable army, but because it generated a level of damage to hoards, tanks, monsters and lords, on a more consistent bases than anything else I have seen. It is more maneuverable than almost any other army, producing more damage, and does not receive negative modifies for moving and shooting. It is not the most durable army, but with a 4+ invuln and the ability to start in cover, it can hold its own first turn. Which is all it has ever needed.

colevir wrote:
Needs some Windriders w/Scatter to help clear wraps. Maybe another detachment to help with slots and a Warlock Skyrunner with protect/jinx as i find that can ruin a unit. With the Saim-Hann trait letting them move and shot at full BS they can bring back those bad dreams from the past. Besides have to do something with all the scatterbikes shelved at the start of 8th.

Last I recall, SC bikes are better than Scatterbikes.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

colevir wrote:
Needs some Windriders w/Scatter to help clear wraps. Maybe another detachment to help with slots and a Warlock Skyrunner with protect/jinx as i find that can ruin a unit. With the Saim-Hann trait letting them move and shot at full BS they can bring back those bad dreams from the past. Besides have to do something with all the scatterbikes shelved at the start of 8th.

Last I recall, SC bikes are better than Scatterbikes.

They are without the trait because they go to BS4 but with the Craftworld trait and the Scatterlaser point drop they stay at BS3 you gain a shot and 12" over SC for the same price.

When I was putting together my marine lists I used to go shooty until I realized the enemy will usually come to you, and often on round 1. So now I use as many Hvy Flamers as I can get. Used to hate flamers until after the 3rd time I got mobbed and found myself saying, "boy, wish I had a lot more flamers for overwatch". Now I put some up front luring the charge with some follow up behind them to counter assault. Sometimes I get overwhelmed, and this army looks like an ideal candidate for that, but with a little luck I can hold and do enough damage to stay in it. Gotta say, with all that S6 AP -4 coming at me, not exactly sure how to get past that first round though. Perhaps 12 x 5 man Company Vet squads with Stormshields and Stormbolters or something led by Pedro Kantor to give the survivors that extra attack

EDIT TO ADD - I didn't even think about it but you could make this list even more awful by going Alaitoc no? I assume the Saim-Hann was just for fluff as you're not fielding any Hvy Weapons that would benefit, and your only real weakness is getting shot up in round 1 if you don't go first, and even so all your stuff is 4++ on ranged so, damn. Might as well go whole hog and get that sweet, sweet Alaitoc bonus.

 Sarigar wrote:

Lithanial wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
You can't cast Quicken more than once...

Depends where you play really doesn't it

In Matched Play, you can't cast the same psychic power more than once outside of Smite. As the list is not using Power Levels, it appears this is intended for Matched Play. In order to have a civil conversation on an internet forum, we generally assume we are abiding by the rules of the game IOT discuss armies, tactics, etc... Providing advice that is not allowed by the rules of the game is generally unhelpful.

More meant that in the spirit of it sounds like he is playing this vs his mates rather than some grand tournament so it would be valid. In full matched play you'd have to go for a council and try your luck with the +1 to cast stratagem to pull it off.

EIther way, the point stands of this won't be getting turn 1 charges against any smart player without quicken and all that will probably be in range is the catapults, not the lances. So say it ends up going second that is 2 turns of shooting they have to endure before getting close enough to fight at full effect which would be problematic.

I was thinking about this list today.

What's your plan for dealing with infantry on the upper floors of buildings? You can't assault them up there. In a cityscape with a lot of dudes high up, you're relying on a lot of not super impressive shooting to get by. Seems that might pose an issue.

Interesting list.

Oddly enough, this army list is not a close combat – alpha – charge list.
It is a shoot – alpha – charge if you want to list.
The over 100 strength 6, -4 AP close combat attacks are overpowered, but the majority of the damage is done through shooting.
The army puts out 200 shuriken catapult shots, and 50 lance shots a turn, all are assault weapons, both eat through lite troops, heavy troops, armor, monsters and lords. Eldar can advance and shoot assault weapons with no penalty, elder bikes automatically advance 6 inches.
It is actually in the shooting phase where this list decimated the other army. I have found that every bike is able to fire each turn, including the first. This is due to its 16 inch speed and ability to advance 6 and fire with no penalty.
On occasion it is nice to charge 1st turn, and I have found that the combination of Saim-Hann rerolling charge distances, and 2 units deep striking through webway portal allows for this. Also the bikes have a move of 16 and an average charge of 9 (due to rerolls), that is 25 inches, for those who want to play this list like the death company.
If there are troops in the top floors of a building – 200 sc shoots and 50 lance shoots will clear them out.
If there are troops out of charge range – 200 sc shoots and 50 lance shoots will make them disappear.
If there are too many tough troops on the other side of the board for, set up on the left or right side, and wipe out half the army, then move 22 inches to the other side and shoot up the other half.
Gwarok had a great point about turning this into an Alaitoc list. It would make it more powerful, but in none of the games it has played in it needed the extra power.
Saim-Hann is just to give it a fluffy theme and support 1st turn charges if needed.