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Hi Dakka.

For some reason, I find myself again here in the dakka forums, and deep within the universe that is 40k.

I am slowly getting a grasp on the 8th Edition of Warhammer 40k. But since I haven't had a chance to play a real game yet, I am struggling with building lists.


With that said, I am looking for some information about HOW to build lists in 8th edition.

In 5th edition, it was about FLEXIBILITY (being able to deal with infantry masses as well as heavy vehicles) and REDUNDANCY.
But has this changed in 8th? Can I still spam S6 Scatter Lasers in all my Eldar Vehicles? Can I still rely on a Jetbike Seer Council? In other words, what should I be aware of, when building lists in 8th edition?

Regards

Depends ont he army, there is NO answer that will work for all armies.

Index's vs Codex's is a problem atm, and a few armies also only have a few playable builds that are completely different styles.

Alpha and Beta strikes are a large part of the game for now with huge amounts of Hordes, but with more and more codex's coming out that might change.

What are some armies you play?

I used to play Tyranids (Tervigon-Trygon spammy AFAIK) and Eldar (Mechdar with WS FD and FP spam, and some Jetbikes).

I am, however, strongly considering focusing on Eldar and Tau (even though Tau doesn't seem that great as a Index army).

But what I really can't make out of all of this "mess" that is 8th (just about everything short of the core rules is new to me) is what people focus on in their lists (Be it Strength X or Toughness Y, be it Infantry or Vehicles).

At first glance, list building seems a lot more balanced and all-around (at least when it comes to the new Codices), and not so forced into mandatory choices for your armies. But I might just be wrong here.

Tyranids are actually in a great spot right now. They have lots of different viaable list. Also some cool models have come out since 5th. You can go assault, shooty, deep striker, pysker heavy, nidzilla, balance, spore mine spam, and they are all viable.

Eldar, i here is good, but i dont play them.

I'll second the " yea! Nids" My son plays Eldar, and it seems like most lists use heavy psycher, plus web way. Wave serpants are big, as always.

Due to how Wounds work now. most are just focusing on mass hits with as many Buffs as they can get, Dark Reapers and Swooping Hawks are a great Example, you can get mass shooting out of both and with their rules, combined with Powers+Stratagems they can do way more damage than they look.

With Tyranids, Genestealers are in a great spot, so are Trygons/Mawlocks (not so much Primes) Fex's are too, Malocks and Fex's are dirt cheap now. so its easy to take 4-6 of them and still have an army. Hive Guard, Biovores, Exocrines are the bread and butter of AT, Fex's are a mix and Trygons/Mawlocks with Genestealers are Shock units (hit hard die hard). Gants (both types) are always good and Gargoyles can now DS, so if you want you can have DSing Gants. Nids got a new HQ and it is GREAT its a Zoanthrope HQ.

Eldar has some really good units like always, Wraiths (not knights) WS's, Dark Reapers, Swooping Hawks, Shiny Spears etc.. All other units are very good at what they do, either doing large amounts of wounds, being very survivable, or just able to get a job done. The WS is one of the best Transports in the game ATM. All the HQ's and Rangers are fine as well. the Troop section of CWE is the weakest part of the book, but they are still things to do with them that are cool.

Your 5th Ed focus on redundancy plus the ability to deal with both hordes and high T will serve you well as a starting point regardless of what army you go with.

A big question to start, is just how competitive you want to be. There high-end FLGS TAC competitive, and then there's major tourney level competitive, and those are very different things. Or at least the latter is a very extreme version of the former. I don't find the latter a iot of fun as a place to start since they tend to be very spammy and there's not a lot of room for aesthetics. I'l build and play those lists, no question, but they aren't what gets me collecting and painting primarily.

If you have Eldar and Tyranids I'd say start with those since both codexes are out and you know what you;re getting into. Personally, I'm waiting on the Tau codex before I buy in in a big way. The tactics threads for both armies will give you a ton of ideas about what builds work for each list. Generally, you want to pay at least some attention to the two following three meta builds:

1. Infantry spam: 150-200 models, and often with few or no good targets for dedicated anti-tank weapons. These can be very fast too, T2 assault is common.

2. High T spam (T7 or 8), like Leman Russ Chassis or big Nids. You might see 8 or 9 Russes in a spammed list. Solid AP and multiple wound weapons are a must.

3. Alpha strike lists with a lot of deepstrikers and infiltrators. Plasma spam IG Scion lists are a good example. You need cheap screening units to help push out the "may not deploy within 9" deepstrike bubble.

We have strong indications that the Tau codex is close, so have a bit of patience there and wait for developments.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Due to how Wounds work now. most are just focusing on mass hits with as many Buffs as they can get, Dark Reapers and Swooping Hawks are a great Example, you can get mass shooting out of both and with their rules, combined with Powers+Stratagems they can do way more damage than they look.

With Tyranids, Genestealers are in a great spot, so are Trygons/Mawlocks (not so much Primes) Fex's are too, Malocks and Fex's are dirt cheap now. so its easy to take 4-6 of them and still have an army. Hive Guard, Biovores, Exocrines are the bread and butter of AT, Fex's are a mix and Trygons/Mawlocks with Genestealers are Shock units (hit hard die hard). Gants (both types) are always good and Gargoyles can now DS, so if you want you can have DSing Gants. Nids got a new HQ and it is GREAT its a Zoanthrope HQ.

Eldar has some really good units like always, Wraiths (not knights) WS's, Dark Reapers, Swooping Hawks, Shiny Spears etc.. All other units are very good at what they do, either doing large amounts of wounds, being very survivable, or just able to get a job done. The WS is one of the best Transports in the game ATM. All the HQ's and Rangers are fine as well. the Troop section of CWE is the weakest part of the book, but they are still things to do with them that are cool.

Wow. That's pretty lucky. It seems like I can use most of my old 'Nids from 5th (and the Tyranids Starter Set seems pretty ideal as well).

Regarding the Eldars, it kind of sucks to hear that the Knights isn't worth contemplating. It's really a good-looking model (just the thought of having such a tall model towering over anything else in the field).
The speed of the Eldars, however, seems to have taken a GIGANTIC blow, compared the the old 5th Edition Eldars (36" Flat-out was so much fun). And spamming S6 weapons (mainly SL's) doesn't seem as wise a choice as before (+3 to wound vs +2 vs MEQ''s). Bummer.

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Your 5th Ed focus on redundancy plus the ability to deal with both hordes and high T will serve you well as a starting point regardless of what army you go with.

A big question to start, is just how competitive you want to be. There high-end FLGS TAC competitive, and then there's major tourney level competitive, and those are very different things. Or at least the latter is a very extreme version of the former. I don't find the latter a iot of fun as a place to start since they tend to be very spammy and there's not a lot of room for aesthetics. I'l build and play those lists, no question, but they aren't what gets me collecting and painting primarily.

If you have Eldar and Tyranids I'd say start with those since both codexes are out and you know what you;re getting into. Personally, I'm waiting on the Tau codex before I buy in in a big way. The tactics threads for both armies will give you a ton of ideas about what builds work for each list. Generally, you want to pay at least some attention to the two following three meta builds:

1. Infantry spam: 150-200 models, and often with few or no good targets for dedicated anti-tank weapons. These can be very fast too, T2 assault is common.

2. High T spam (T7 or 8), like Leman Russ Chassis or big Nids. You might see 8 or 9 Russes in a spammed list. Solid AP and multiple wound weapons are a must.

3. Alpha strike lists with a lot of deepstrikers and infiltrators. Plasma spam IG Scion lists are a good example. You need cheap screening units to help push out the "may not deploy within 9" deepstrike bubble.

Well, the focus for me is something between FLGS and tourney competitive, that offers a foundation for me to build on (I mean, spamming Tau Commanders with 4x Fusions doesn't seem that appealing,even though the competitive meta seem to dictate it, TBH). I think my 5th edition Nid army is in a good place. But my Eldars is rather lacking. I'd still like to keep it as mobile and Dakka as possible, since that was what got me into playing Eldar in the first place. I'm going to miss their INSANE 5th edition flat-out speeds. But with the 8th addition of Faction rules and Stratagems, I believe they have a lot to offer as-is.

My Tau, however, is pretty much non-existent, and has all the potential in the world. I agree that the Index Tau isn't that impressive, but the Tau always had a certain appeal to them regardless. I mean, if they do as good a job with the Tau Codex, as they've done with the Eldar and the Tyanid Codices, I'm not that afraid to purchase a few boxes (compared to the 5th edition meta, where roughly 50% of every unit in any given codex just wasn't viable, mainly due to many of the meta-defining armies of the time).

All in all, I guess it's back to crunching some Mathhammer, and simply working out what works and what doesn't.


Anyway, thank you all for the insightful comments. You've been of great help to me.

Sincerely,
Bill'