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Made in gb
Malicious Mutant Scum




Whitby uk

Hi guys,

I'm returning into 8th from 40k 5th and Fantasy 8th. I'm a bit unsure on how the attacks work for the Blood Throne & Skull Cannon.
Basically, how many base attacks do they get?

Blood Throne
A HoK on Blood Throne is a single model armed with a hellblade. It rides atop a Blood Throne and is attended by two Bloodletters
Do its 5 base attacks include the HoK and Bloodletters?

Skull Cannon
A Skull Cannon is a single model equiped with a skull cannon and crewed by two Bloodletters
Do its 2 base attacks include the Bloodletters?

Seeing as a HoK has 3 attacks and Bloodletters each have 1 this would make sense but I just want to be sure as Fantasy 8th the cannon/throne had its own attacks and BattleScribe shows the profile of the Bloodletters as well as the cannon when selected.

4000
2000 
   
Made in gb
Stormin' Stompa





grr wrote:
Hi guys,

I'm returning into 8th from 40k 5th and Fantasy 8th. I'm a bit unsure on how the attacks work for the Blood Throne & Skull Cannon.
Basically, how many base attacks do they get?

Blood Throne
A HoK on Blood Throne is a single model armed with a hellblade. It rides atop a Blood Throne and is attended by two Bloodletters
Do its 5 base attacks include the HoK and Bloodletters?

Skull Cannon
A Skull Cannon is a single model equiped with a skull cannon and crewed by two Bloodletters
Do its 2 base attacks include the Bloodletters?

Seeing as a HoK has 3 attacks and Bloodletters each have 1 this would make sense but I just want to be sure as Fantasy 8th the cannon/throne had its own attacks and BattleScribe shows the profile of the Bloodletters as well as the cannon when selected.
From the Stepping into a New Edition FAQ https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Warhammer_40000_Stepping_into_a_New_Edition_of_Warhammer_40000.pdf

Q: How do the weapon profiles of Cavalry mounts, and other models such as chariots (which have weapon profiles for riders and mounts), work?
A: Each weapon profile is treated as a separate weapon the model is equipped with.

Note that typically these weapon profiles have abilities that mean they can be used to make additional attacks.

For example, a Thunderwolf mount provides its rider with a set of extra attacks with its own melee weapon profile (crushing teeth and claws). So, the rider can make all its attacks using, for example, its thunder hammer, and then it can make an additional set of attacks using the Thunderwolf’s melee weapon profile. When resolving these attacks, bonuses and penalties to the rider’s hit rolls and wound rolls also apply to the Thunderwolf’s attacks – it is effectively a weapon wielded by the rider. As such, where a mount’s weapon profile has a Strength characteristic other than User – as is the case with the Thunderwolf – the Strength of the mount’s attacks is not affected by changes to the model’s Strength. Note, however, that the mount’s weapon profile would be affected by changes to the Strength (or other characteristics) of a model’s weapons.
In short, crew and mounts are all a single model with a single profile, with special rules that may or may not give extra attacks or benefits. Any mention of crew, mounts or attendants is just fluffbabble.

For example, the Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne is a single model with 5 attacks, with various special rules to give it extra killy power to represent the aforementioned crew.

As for Battlescribe, it's good for making lists (since GW are trying to make points hard to use and discourage their use) but other than that it's worthless. Never trust it for being rules accurate, since any feedback they get is ignored due to the classic insular and feedback-phobic nature of Open Source projects. Double check you have up to date files though, looking at mine and I see no mention of the Bloodletters on the Herald of Khornes info. There is a bug in Battlescribe itself which makes data files not update properly, you have to remove the 40k game completely and re-add it to update.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2017/12/28 00:24:50


   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol






The above is not entirely correct - the 'single model' bit tells you all the crew/mounts/etc. will likely be covered in one profile. If crew are separate Miniatures the Datasheet will tell you how to handle them, and if mounts give an attack there's usually a weapon profile for them and rules on how to handle them. But the 'single model' bit is key here. If there are no different profiles for the Bloodletters you can assumedntheyre rolled into the main statline and weapon profile shown.

Also contrary to the above: BattleScribe is largely accurate and a useful tool. As I understand it, data files are maintained by amateurs giving up their time to do so, not by an Evil Corporation(tm). As such it may not be fast, or good at times, but it is free and super handy. It's largely excellent but it's always worth comparing to your printed rules, and using as an assistant rather than trying to use it to avoid buying books. It is not a replacement.

You can check the BattleScribe GutHub page if in doubt as to whether recent rules changes are updated yet. And if you feed back politely and don't expect immediate work from unpaid people I'm sure they'll welcome input.

(No, I don't have any connection to BattleScribe or the data file compilers, I just think the post above is misleading and unfair to the people who make the data files.)

Lastly, GW aren't trying to discourage the use of points. Splitting out models and weapons is to enable them to balance the game more easily, either changing points model by model or by making a change to a weapon that then affects all bearer's costs. It's not much added complexity given upgrades always added costs and sums were required, but six months on and some of the internet is still whining. I'm completely unsure why.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/12/28 07:38:04


I scratch-built a Macharius Vulcan, Thunderbolt and Spartan! Have a peek at the build and my painting progress here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/513429.page

My all-plastic Praetorian build log: http://bit.ly/1K7gn7J

People who say "special snowflake" a lot tend to be unpleasant people.

 
   
Made in gb
Malicious Mutant Scum




Whitby uk

Thank you, it made sense that way but I just wanted to be sure.

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Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut





 JohnnyHell wrote:
Lastly, GW aren't trying to discourage the use of points. Splitting out models and weapons is to enable them to balance the game more easily, either changing points model by model or by making a change to a weapon that then affects all bearer's costs. It's not much added complexity given upgrades always added costs and sums were required, but six months on and some of the internet is still whining. I'm completely unsure why.

But they got it perfectly in 5th edition. Every weapon tailored to what carries it, with some models getting discounts depending on circumstances or abilities. I have no idea why they went back to horrifically unusable and frankly stupid armoury system in 6th/7th or why they didn't go back to 5th but did half-armoury in 8th inheriting most of its flaws and little of the 5th greatness. They even admitted current system sucks by backdoor inclusion of different costs of plasma for IG or hammers for SM depending on who carries it but it's still far worse approach than 5th had...
   
Made in gb
Stormin' Stompa





 Irbis wrote:
But they got it perfectly in 5th edition. Every weapon tailored to what carries it, with some models getting discounts depending on circumstances or abilities. I have no idea why they went back to horrifically unusable and frankly stupid armoury system in 6th/7th or why they didn't go back to 5th but did half-armoury in 8th inheriting most of its flaws and little of the 5th greatness. They even admitted current system sucks by backdoor inclusion of different costs of plasma for IG or hammers for SM depending on who carries it but it's still far worse approach than 5th had...
Because several of the playtest group have revealed that GW all but forced them to ditch points all together, to the extent that they closed ranks and basically offered an ultimatum to keep points in.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/30 17:56:27


   
Made in us
Angelic Adepta Sororitas




Tacoma, WA, USA

I would guess because doing points cost for every unit and every units's wargear options is a royal PITA. So they went with the one cost per wargear option at first.

Then they realized a major problem created by a few circumstances and are fixing them one at a time.

I'm waiting to see when they realize they need to do something about the point value of the efficient to upgrade units. While it is true that better BS makes a weapon better, it is also true that being able to cram more of a special weapon into a squad also makes that squad better. Why Scion Command Squads (4 guys that all can gain a special weapon) are the same point cost per model as Scions (5 guys that only two can gain special weapons) is beyond me.
   
 
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