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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




So folks feedback is massively appreciated on this list, I’m taking on “That guy” at my FLGS. He plays craftworld Eldar, Biel tan to be exact. Now this is a serious grudge match after he kinda humiliated the last kid he played who happened to be a novice when it comes to table top games. I felt bad for the kid as it was maybe his fourth game ever. So being the chivalrous guy I am, I stepped in and told the kid I would avenge him and take TG down a peg or two. It’s set for next weekend so feedback is really appreciated ASAP. Well enough back story here it is.

Battalion Detachment
Black Legion
HQ
Abaddon the Despoiler 240
Dark Apostle w/combi-bolter and MOK 78

Troops
10 Cultists w/ Autoguns and Heavy Stubber, MOS 44
10 Cultists w/ Autoguns and Heavy Stubber, MOS 44
10 Cultists w/ Autoguns and Heavy Stubber, MOS 44

Vanguard Detachment
Black Legion
HQ
Sorceror w/ Jump Pack, Combi-Bolter, Force Sword and MOT
Prescience, Smite and Warptime psychic powers 122

Elites
5 Chaos Terminators w/ 4 Combi-Bolters and Powerfist, 1 Heavy Flamer and Chainfist, MOK, Icon of Wrath 252
5 Chaos Terminators w/ 1 Combi-plasma and powerfist, 3 combi-plasma and poweraxe, 1 Reaper Autocannon and Powerfist, MOS, Icon of Excess 279
10 Chosen w/ 1 combi-plasma and power sword, 4 bolt pistol and power sword, 1 meltagun, 4 bolt pistol and chain sword, MOK, Icon of Wrath 222

Chaos Rhino w/ combi bolter, havoc launcher and MOK 83

Spearhead Detachment
Alpha Legion
HQ
Daemon Prince w/ 2 Malefic Talons, Warp bolter, MOS, Intoxicating Elixir 159
Diabolical Strength and Smite Psychic powers

Heavy Support
3 Obliterators w/ MOS 195
5 Havocs w/ 1 power sword and bolt pistol, 4 Heavy bolters, MOS 109
5 Havocs w/ 1 Power Sword and bolt pistol, 4 Autocannons , MOS 129

So there you have it guys. I am well aware I’m lacking any heavy armour but I’m kinda relying on either an Alpha strike, or failing that a huge drop of troops and heavy guns in the face. Eldar are relatively brittle, I’m counting on that to be their down fall. I’m under no illusions my psykers aren’t likely to stop or succeed at any psychic ability once things get close. I know the guy runs a rather smite heavy force... but I’m hoping for a denial here or there. Generally speaking, I want to table him in 3 turns... optimistic I know... but who knows... the chaos gods might favour me this time round

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/31 05:12:27


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Is it a good or a bad idea to infiltrate 1 large 35 man blob of cultists?

In the Grimdark future of DerpHammer40k, there are only dank memes! 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




 CadianGateTroll wrote:
Is it a good or a bad idea to infiltrate 1 large 35 man blob of cultists?


Well in truth it depends on if you get the first turn or not. If you do then it gives you a large tar pit right at their front door and at worst of you don’t then you have a rather large imposing threat right up in their grille. Either way it works, but to get a battalion in there (for the CPs which equal lots of stratagemmy goodness) you need three troops choices... I can use them as throw away distractions and objective contesters with Tide of Traitors... three units on three objectives is more frustrating but less scary than a blob is on one objective.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Its impossible to give specific advice because we dont really know how competitive the other guys army is.

I am not sure what you are trying to achieve with your list. It has next to no anti-armor or multi wound damage. If he has wave serpents, fire prisms, or god forbid flyers. You are screwed.

Not sure why you are running a dark apostle for a measly 30 cultists.

If you want to run black legion termies, you want a blob of them shooty with combi-plas to abuse your strategems and prescience. I would cut that 1st unit of termies, the second is pretty close to a optimal loadout. Fists are a waste on such a slow unit, if you DS and fail your charge (very likely) Eldar can easily outrun them on foot. You mentioned that the eldar player uses lots of smite. Smite absolutely devastates termies.

The chosen unit is 300 points with transport and I dont really know what you want them to do. You have plasma and a melta-gun, but also bought them power swords. Are they melee or shooty? If you really want to amp them up, take all plasma and DS Abby next them when they get out for those sweet sweet rerolls. Be aware that Chosen are an absolute fire magnet and are not all that tough so you have to use them carefully.

What are you planning on doing with abbadon? You need a solid core of shooting if you really want to abuse his rerolls. Something like 9 obliterators or 3 las predators.

You have spare points floating around your list that can be easily cut. The fists, the icons, the havoc launcher, the power swords, the heavy stubbers, and the warp bolter is all extra crap you don't need and cutting it will net you almost 130 points!

Sorry if I tore it up a little bit! If your opponent is running a very casual "this is all the models I have" type list you should be ok. If he really is "that guy" and is running a good eldar list you could easily be tabled in 3 turns.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/02 19:38:09


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Manfried wrote:
Its impossible to give specific advice because we dont really know how competitive the other guys army is.

I am not sure what you are trying to achieve with your list. It has next to no anti-armor or multi wound damage. If he has wave serpents, fire prisms, or god forbid flyers. You are screwed.

Not sure why you are running a dark apostle for a measly 30 cultists.

If you want to run black legion termies, you want a blob of them shooty with combi-plas to abuse your strategems and prescience. I would cut that 1st unit of termies, the second is pretty close to a optimal loadout. Fists are a waste on such a slow unit, if you DS and fail your charge (very likely) Eldar can easily outrun them on foot. You mentioned that the eldar player uses lots of smite. Smite absolutely devastates termies.

The chosen unit is 300 points with transport and I dont really know what you want them to do. You have plasma and a melta-gun, but also bought them power swords. Are they melee or shooty? If you really want to amp them up, take all plasma and DS Abby next them when they get out for those sweet sweet rerolls. Be aware that Chosen are an absolute fire magnet and are not all that tough so you have to use them carefully.

What are you planning on doing with abbadon? You need a solid core of shooting if you really want to abuse his rerolls. Something like 9 obliterators or 3 las predators.

You have spare points floating around your list that can be easily cut. The fists, the icons, the havoc launcher, the power swords, the heavy stubbers, and the warp bolter is all extra crap you don't need and cutting it will net you almost 130 points!

Sorry if I tore it up a little bit! If your opponent is running a very casual "this is all the models I have" type list you should be ok. If he really is "that guy" and is running a good eldar list you could easily be tabled in 3 turns.


Ok I do see what your saying, well I’ll explain my tactics to give you more of an idea on what I intend to do.

Cultists, Havocs, apostle, daemon Prince and chosen in Rhino act like an anchor. They hold the back field and let the Eldar come to them. The apostle boosts the morale of the Cultists which reduces their morale casualties, with Ld 10 (thanks to black Legion trait) they need to lose half of a squad before morale will affect them. The Cultists are simply there as bait, the Havocs lay down some heavy fire at anything that’s hanging back in the Eldar deployment zone. Heavy bolters target dark reapers (of which I know he has at least two squads) autocannons for falcons and wave serpents using Veterans of the Long War strategem, making them wound on 3s instead of 4s (max damage output is 16 wounds) the Rhino with chosen and daemon prince tend to hang about untill something gets close enough to jump out of the battle line and assault. Re-rolling charges makes this more viable. The reason for the two terminator squads is that they drop in deep enemy territory or as close to tanks and the likes as possible with Abby and the Sorceror. Sorceror pushes the slaanesh termies forward with warptime to make their charge much easier and the Khorne termies get a re-roll to charge too. Plus all the hit re-rolls from Abby and/or prescience from Sorceror and they are looking dangerous to tanks. Pop Endless cacophony on the slaanesh termies and they can decimate anything nearby... tanks included. So I’m not as concerned about armour tbh. I’m more concerned about smite spam, I know I’m going to get hit with it. ALOT. Part of the reason two terminator squads makes target saturation more intimidating.

Ok so on to what I know of his list:
I know he has three farseers (one on jet bike), I know he has two wave serpents and one falcon, I know he has two squads of 5 dark reapers, I know he has a ten man squad of howling banshees. And I know he likes dire avengers. I know he has fire dragons too, saw him with them in a different game. Think he has some striking scorpions too. He has a big squad of wraithguard/wraithblades (don’t know which didn’t see close enough) he also like to run a fair few warlocks too. That is as much as I remember seeing. He may have had a jet bike squadron with the farseer... but I only heard of him talking about them not actually seen them. He also has a couple of wraith lords and a wraith knight. He has said that he hasn’t finished his wraith knight though so I know that won’t be a factor this weekend. Yeah I know. Seriously got my work cut out for me...
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




That lone rhino is gonna be in serious trouble unless there is ample los blocking terrain and then that overcosted cc chosen unit is screwed. CCW on chosen is also not considered the best i'd swap to special weapons if its an option or even ditch the unit and get something better. If your able to consolidate the 2 Termies into one large unit armed with combi-plasma it is much more effective as you can stack spells and stratagems on them, but watch out when targeting an Eldar vehicle with plasma as they have access to a -1 to hit stratagem that can be activated after you declare shooting. Your only real long range threats on T1 are the havocs which are outside rhino protection - they should get blasted off T1 by the reapers. I wouldn't plan on the Eldar coming to you as you lack long range threat your main threat are the Endless cacophony Oblits. Also there is no real need to have a dark apostle to babysit cultists, it defeats the point of taking small units of cultists that move onto objectives as you have to keep all 3 units in range to get the buff.

Id drop the Vanguard Detachment and the chosen move the sorcerer over to the Battalion and drop the Apostle. Consolidate the large Terminator Squad (only if all use combi-plas) and use the remaining points to invest in more long range anti-tank weapons which your list is very short on. Good luck, his list doesn't seem to competitive - you best thank god he ain't running a trio of Alaitoc Hemlocks.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Lew1001 wrote:
That lone rhino is gonna be in serious trouble unless there is ample los blocking terrain and then that overcosted cc chosen unit is screwed. CCW on chosen is also not considered the best i'd swap to special weapons if its an option or even ditch the unit and get something better. If your able to consolidate the 2 Termies into one large unit armed with combi-plasma it is much more effective as you can stack spells and stratagems on them, but watch out when targeting an Eldar vehicle with plasma as they have access to a -1 to hit stratagem that can be activated after you declare shooting. Your only real long range threats on T1 are the havocs which are outside rhino protection - they should get blasted off T1 by the reapers. I wouldn't plan on the Eldar coming to you as you lack long range threat your main threat are the Endless cacophony Oblits. Also there is no real need to have a dark apostle to babysit cultists, it defeats the point of taking small units of cultists that move onto objectives as you have to keep all 3 units in range to get the buff.

Id drop the Vanguard Detachment and the chosen move the sorcerer over to the Battalion and drop the Apostle. Consolidate the large Terminator Squad (only if all use combi-plas) and use the remaining points to invest in more long range anti-tank weapons which your list is very short on. Good luck, his list doesn't seem to competitive - you best thank god he ain't running a trio of Alaitoc Hemlocks.


These are very good points, tbh I see the points about powerfists that manfried made. Power axes work just fine for Eldar, though I am a little concerned about high toughness and durability units when it comes to close combat. The Cultists kinda work as a meat screen for the Havocs. Plus with the havocs benefiting from a -1 to hit from alpha Legion traits it gives them that slight increased survivability. Though I know some Eldar units can ignore negative modifiers to hit.... right I’m going to start the list over...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok so I’ve now reworked the list:

Battalion Detachment
Black Legion
HQ
Abaddon the Despoiler
240
Sorceror w/ Jump Pack, Combi-Bolter, Force Sword and MOT
Prescience, Smite and warptime psychic powers 122

Troops
10 Cultists
w/ Autoguns and Heavy Stubber, MOS 44
10 Cultists w/ Autoguns and Heavy Stubber, MOS 44
11 Cultists w/ Autoguns and Heavy Stubber, MOS 48

Elites
10 Chaos Terminators
w/ 1 combi-plasma and Powerfist, 7 combi plasma and Poweraxe, 2 Reaper Autocannon and Poweraxe and MOS 517

Spearhead Detachment
Alpha Legion
HQ
Daemon Prince
w/ 2 Malefic Talons, Warp bolter, MOS, Intoxicating Elixir 159
Diabolical Strength and Smite Psychic powers
Warpsmith w/ Combi-Plasma and MOS 91

Elites
Helbrute
w/ Twin Lascannon, Missile Launcher and MOS 147

Heavy Support
3 Obliterators
w/ MOS 195
Chaos Predator w/ Twin Lascannons, Lascannon sponsons, Combi-Bolter and MOS 192
Defiler w/ battle cannon, twin Lascannon, havoc launcher and MOS 201

Better guys??

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/03 23:41:58


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Ok folls so I figured I’d give all those of you who gave advice and suggestions an update on how things turned out. It was a victory but only by two victory points. I got lucky with my tactical objectives draw on my last turn. Managed to finish off three squads netting me D3 victory points which rolled up a 5 scoring me the two points I needed to win. It was a close run thing and down to the wire. Lost two squads of Cultists in the first turn which left me trailing for most of the game. But by the end all that was left of my army on the battle field was two Terminators, Abaddon and a paraplegic Daemon Prince... lucky final result. So a massive thanks to all those who contributed.
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





North Carolina

if you could change some things (besides going first) what would they be?
why the MoT on sorcerer?
things i would change:
6 more oblits and drop the pred and defiler.
drop reaper autocannons and fist for more axe and plasma.









"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan - 
   
 
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