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Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Lincolnton, N.C.

This is my scum tourney list I'm mulling about. Tested it a few times to good result even though Drea or S. Thug in another version of this list always dies at some point. Only ship I'm deadset on using is the Kimogila, otherwise open to suggestions (Especially of the H-6 or YV-666 variety) . List is called Fat Pack cause everyone only has 1 Agility.

Drea Renthal — Y-Wing 22
Ion Cannon Turret 5
Flechette Torpedoes 2
Unhinged Astromech 1
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 30
 
Kavil — Y-Wing 24
Veteran Instincts 1
Ion Cannon Turret 5
Proton Torpedoes 4
Unhinged Astromech 1
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 35
 
Dalan Oberos (Kimogila) — M12-L Kimogila Fighter 25
Veteran Instincts 1
Extra Munitions 2
Harpoon Missiles 4
Unhinged Astromech 1
Contraband Cybernetics 1
Guidance Chips 0
Enforcer 1
Ship Total: 35

My beloved 40K armies Red Corsairs
Order of Saint Pan Thera
Da Krome Toof Killas

DR:80S+++G+M+B++IPw40K(3)00-D++A+++/cWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
Made in nz
[DCM]
Villanous Scum






Have you played with the Kimoglia at all? Personally I find that in order to use its ability it really needs to boost and never gets to reload, which has tainted my view, how does it work in your meta?

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire.
Keeping the flame of Babylon 5 A Call to Arms alive, check it out;
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Made in us
[DCM]
Bird from Hell






So, you probably know this, but it's a really bad list. The ship choices are bad, and a list full of low-agility ships with weak damage output and no arc dodging is a great way to get wiped off the table against the sheer firepower the current meta can deliver. That said, individual, ship comments:

Drea is just a bad choice all around. She doesn't have PS, doesn't have great action economy, and doesn't have good firepower. Her pilot ability begs you to take the re-roll defense dice droid, but then you can't ever clear the stress you take. Unhinged solves the stress, but leaves you kind of lacking in firepower. And your choice of weapons makes this worse. Ion cannon turrets are damage capped, and flechette torps deal very little damage. There's just nothing about this ship that scares me. At minimum you need proton torpedoes to try for the target lock + eye to crit + chips getting you a consistent 4-hit shot and hope for the best. But then you have a one-shot weapon that has to do a 3-speed maneuver and give up shooting for the foreseeable future, unless you dump in even more points for a TLT.

Kavil is better than Drea, but your setup is bad. Torps are a complete waste here, if you're ever shooting them instead of your turret you've made a huge mistake. VI is a waste unless you take vectored thrusters (which is an option you should consider), with no maneuvering actions PS 9 might as well be PS 0. Take predator instead, or add vectored thrusters. And the ion cannon turret is trash here, TLT gives you way more firepower and makes Kavil into a legitimate (if very fragile) threat.

Dalan probably the best of the ships here. I'm not 100% sold on the ship in general, but you could probably do worse than PS 9 alpha strike. Nym is probably better, but I guess if you're committed to the ship...

Unfortunately there's just not much hope for salvaging this list. The choice of ships is too weak to be viable, and any replacement list is barely going to resemble what you started with. But if you're committed to the idea of low-agility scum, Nym is pretty much mandatory.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Lincolnton, N.C.

Peregrine wrote:So, you probably know this, but it's a really bad list. The ship choices are bad, and a list full of low-agility ships with weak damage output and no arc dodging is a great way to get wiped off the table against the sheer firepower the current meta can deliver. That said, individual, ship comments:

Drea is just a bad choice all around. She doesn't have PS, doesn't have great action economy, and doesn't have good firepower. Her pilot ability begs you to take the re-roll defense dice droid, but then you can't ever clear the stress you take. Unhinged solves the stress, but leaves you kind of lacking in firepower. And your choice of weapons makes this worse. Ion cannon turrets are damage capped, and flechette torps deal very little damage. There's just nothing about this ship that scares me. At minimum you need proton torpedoes to try for the target lock + eye to crit + chips getting you a consistent 4-hit shot and hope for the best. But then you have a one-shot weapon that has to do a 3-speed maneuver and give up shooting for the foreseeable future, unless you dump in even more points for a TLT.

Kavil is better than Drea, but your setup is bad. Torps are a complete waste here, if you're ever shooting them instead of your turret you've made a huge mistake. VI is a waste unless you take vectored thrusters (which is an option you should consider), with no maneuvering actions PS 9 might as well be PS 0. Take predator instead, or add vectored thrusters. And the ion cannon turret is trash here, TLT gives you way more firepower and makes Kavil into a legitimate (if very fragile) threat.

Dalan probably the best of the ships here. I'm not 100% sold on the ship in general, but you could probably do worse than PS 9 alpha strike. Nym is probably better, but I guess if you're committed to the ship...

Unfortunately there's just not much hope for salvaging this list. The choice of ships is too weak to be viable, and any replacement list is barely going to resemble what you started with. But if you're committed to the idea of low-agility scum, Nym is pretty much mandatory.


Not sure why you think it's bad or these ships are weak. Ywings are still tough as nails and decently manueverable with unhinged.

As far as Drea goes, I'm not 100% committed to her, but ps with a turret isn't that important and ion+stress (from enforcer or the torps after a kavil shot) is great. I have able to pin Ryad down with this list.

I put the proton torps on kavil to light the harpoon's candle. Especially since his turret ability doesn't work if he's in arc. So it's 4 dice option. (The aforementioned S. Thug option over Drea carries a second set of protons) And again there's nothing fragile in this list, and I want to ion people so I can keep them in Dalan's bullseye. (Not to mention drift people into things) Tlt is good but a good opponent can get inside r1 way too easily. If I trusted it (and I don't, at least not for scum...hi chopper) a btl+synced would be more reliable.


ingtaer wrote:Have you played with the Kimoglia at all? Personally I find that in order to use its ability it really needs to boost and never gets to reload, which has tainted my view, how does it work in your meta?


It's not reloading as often as my Alpha, but it hits like a mack truck. And as I like to slow roll I don't get it in trouble as much. It's survived all but one match (though it was in a list with 2 bumpmasters and wasn't happy with that list at all) Boost is a luxury but it does have a barrel roll which I've used to get targets in the bull's eye. With g.chips landing that crit is also very nice. And being a 3 die gun with 8 hp is nothing to sneeze at. Meta wise, we only have one true power gamer, but generally defenders, arc 170s and big base ships are the norm.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/31 19:23:52


My beloved 40K armies Red Corsairs
Order of Saint Pan Thera
Da Krome Toof Killas

DR:80S+++G+M+B++IPw40K(3)00-D++A+++/cWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

I know Peregrine doesn't like the ieda of the Trajectory Simulator... but it can surprise the hell out of your opponents. This?:

Captain Nym (Scum) (30)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Extra Munitions (2)
Thermal Detonators (3)
Thermal Detonators (3)
Trajectory Simulator (1)
"Genius" (0)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
Havoc (0)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Cartel Brute (22)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Unhinged Astromech (1)
Glitterstim (2)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
Enforcer (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Nym does Nym things.

Y-Wing is there for filler and extra hulls.

Cartel Brute takes his LRS TL, then sets up his shot with a K-Turn, or those green 3 speed manoeuvres.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/31 23:30:16


 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in us
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Bird from Hell






 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Ywings are still tough as nails and decently manueverable with unhinged.


They really aren't tough as nails. They have 8 HP, but poor defense dice and no defensive abilities or arc dodging so all they can do is sit there and take whatever hits you roll. A lot of lists are going to simply delete a y-wing in the opening turn, and dedicated alpha strike lists are going to kill one and start on the second.

As far as Drea goes, I'm not 100% committed to her, but ps with a turret isn't that important and ion+stress (from enforcer or the torps after a kavil shot) is great.


The problem is that Drea costs +4 points over a PS 2 generic for a marginal benefit. Her pilot ability isn't great, and PS 5 is barely better than PS 0. Meanwhile the ion + stress combo is difficult to pull off, and even when it works you're still only disabling a single target with focused fire from your entire (surviving) list, leaving the rest of your opponent's list free to kill another ship and leave you with a damage-capped ion turret that can't even consistently hit a lot of targets.

Especially since his turret ability doesn't work if he's in arc.


Exactly. If Kavil has a target in arc you have screwed up and are going to lose. Carrying an in-arc weapon only tempts you to make stupid plays instead of flying Kavil like a proper turret ship.

lt is good but a good opponent can get inside r1 way too easily.


They really can't. There's a reason why TLT is dominant on every ship that can take it, and hardly anyone even considers the other options. The donut hole is relevant, but a TLT ship that occasionally gets donut holed is still going to do more than any other turret ship. And remember that an ion turret can also be avoided. Stay at range 3 and it can't shoot at all.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Lincolnton, N.C.

Mathieu Raymond wrote:I know Peregrine doesn't like the ieda of the Trajectory Simulator... but it can surprise the hell out of your opponents. This?:

Captain Nym (Scum) (30)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Extra Munitions (2)
Thermal Detonators (3)
Thermal Detonators (3)
Trajectory Simulator (1)
"Genius" (0)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
Havoc (0)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Cartel Brute (22)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Unhinged Astromech (1)
Glitterstim (2)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
Enforcer (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Nym does Nym things.

Y-Wing is there for filler and extra hulls.

Cartel Brute takes his LRS TL, then sets up his shot with a K-Turn, or those green 3 speed manoeuvres.


Problem there is I don't have Trajectory Simulator. Or the space B-17.

I was thinking about this though:

M12-L Kimogila Fighter: •Dalan Oberos (33)
Guidance Chips (0)
•Enforcer (1)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Unhinged Astromech (1)
Contraband Cybernetics (1)

Scurrg H-6 Bomber: Lok Revenant (37)
Guidance Chips (0)
Deadeye (1)
Dorsal Turret (3)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Recon Specialist (3)

Z-95 Headhunter: Binayre Pirate (15)
Guidance Chips (0)
Cruise Missiles (3)

Z-95 Headhunter: Binayre Pirate (15)
Guidance Chips (0)
Cruise Missiles (3)

Total: 100/100

Peregrine wrote:
 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Ywings are still tough as nails and decently manueverable with unhinged.


They really aren't tough as nails. They have 8 HP, but poor defense dice and no defensive abilities or arc dodging so all they can do is sit there and take whatever hits you roll. A lot of lists are going to simply delete a y-wing in the opening turn, and dedicated alpha strike lists are going to kill one and start on the second.

As far as Drea goes, I'm not 100% committed to her, but ps with a turret isn't that important and ion+stress (from enforcer or the torps after a kavil shot) is great.


The problem is that Drea costs +4 points over a PS 2 generic for a marginal benefit. Her pilot ability isn't great, and PS 5 is barely better than PS 0. Meanwhile the ion + stress combo is difficult to pull off, and even when it works you're still only disabling a single target with focused fire from your entire (surviving) list, leaving the rest of your opponent's list free to kill another ship and leave you with a damage-capped ion turret that can't even consistently hit a lot of targets.

Especially since his turret ability doesn't work if he's in arc.


Exactly. If Kavil has a target in arc you have screwed up and are going to lose. Carrying an in-arc weapon only tempts you to make stupid plays instead of flying Kavil like a proper turret ship.

lt is good but a good opponent can get inside r1 way too easily.


They really can't. There's a reason why TLT is dominant on every ship that can take it, and hardly anyone even considers the other options. The donut hole is relevant, but a TLT ship that occasionally gets donut holed is still going to do more than any other turret ship. And remember that an ion turret can also be avoided. Stay at range 3 and it can't shoot at all.


Well very few ships are going to have high hp and decent agility. By that definition a VCX is made of tissue paper.

As far as Kavil goes I'm not sure how having someone in arc and shooting them with a 4 die attack with a potential crit and chip hit. (especially when the I'd shoot at is hopefully harpooned)

As far as staying at r3 to stay out of ion range, that means they aren't close to hit me and I can still tag them with missiles and torps. Don't get my wrong my gaming group has all but banned me from running 3 tlt Ys, and Mux, because it's great but it requires formation flying and mutual range coverage to work.

My beloved 40K armies Red Corsairs
Order of Saint Pan Thera
Da Krome Toof Killas

DR:80S+++G+M+B++IPw40K(3)00-D++A+++/cWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Bird from Hell






 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Well very few ships are going to have high hp and decent agility. By that definition a VCX is made of tissue paper.


It's high HP or agility, not both. Soontir Fel is a very durable ship in a bomb-free meta. Despite having only 3 HP he is almost impossible to damage with conventional attacks, and is extremely difficult for lower-PS ships to catch in arc at all. A VCX is a very durable ship because it has 16 HP, meaning an alpha strike list has effectively zero chance of killing it in the opening turn before it can shoot. Damage it, yes, but a VCX list is always going to get to return fire at full strength. Compare that to your y-wing: the single green die adds very little, and it has half the HP. Your 35 point y-wing will die much faster than the 35 point generic VCX, and the VCX brings a 4-dice gun without even adding any upgrades.

As far as Kavil goes I'm not sure how having someone in arc and shooting them with a 4 die attack with a potential crit and chip hit. (especially when the I'd shoot at is hopefully harpooned)


It's bad because it means flying directly at the enemy with your fragile y-wing instead of exploiting its biggest advantage: the ability to shoot outside it's arc while flying defensively. You know, the main reason you brought Kavil at all instead of a PS 2 generic with that torpedo. Kavil with a TLT is rolling 4 dice twice, comparing pretty favorably the single 4-dice torpedo attack, and he's doing it from a much better position. And because you don't have to spend points on redundant weapons you can invest those points elsewhere.

As far as staying at r3 to stay out of ion range, that means they aren't close to hit me and I can still tag them with missiles and torps.


That's not exactly a good situation for you. Your missiles and torps depend on being in arc, while many enemy ships will either avoid jousting and kill you with turrets or dodge your arcs. And many enemy ships will bring HLCs/ordnance/etc, giving them a lot of firepower in a range-3 exchange. Again, there's a reason why TLTs have dominated the meta and ion turrets haven't been seen in a long time.

Don't get my wrong my gaming group has all but banned me from running 3 tlt Ys, and Mux, because it's great but it requires formation flying and mutual range coverage to work.


Yeah, no. Quad TLT is one of the easiest lists to fly if you're even minimally competent at planning maneuvers. Put your ships into a box formation, roll TLT dice until someone wins. I'm not going to object to taking a powerful list in a tournament where winning is the goal, but don't pretend that it requires any meaningful skill to win with it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/02 12:52:25


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Lincolnton, N.C.

Okay then what about one of these:
Dalan Oberos (Kimogila) — M12-L Kimogila Fighter 25
Veteran Instincts 1
Extra Munitions 2
Harpoon Missiles 4
Unhinged Astromech 1
Contraband Cybernetics 1
Guidance Chips 0
Enforcer 1
Ship Total: 35
 
Torkil Mux — HWK-290 19
Twin Laser Turret 6
Recon Specialist 3
Black Market Slicer Tools 1
Pulsed Ray Shield 2
Ship Total: 31
 
Kavil — Y-Wing 24
Veteran Instincts 1
Twin Laser Turret 6
Unhinged Astromech 1
Vectored Thrusters 2
Ship Total: 34

OR

Dalan Oberos (Kimogila) — M12-L Kimogila Fighter 25
Veteran Instincts 1
Cruise Missiles 3
Unhinged Astromech 1
Contraband Cybernetics 1
Guidance Chips 0
Enforcer 1
Ship Total: 32
 
Sol Sixxa — Scurrg H-6 Bomber 28
Deadeye 1
Twin Laser Turret 6
Cruise Missiles 3
Outlaw Tech 2
Bomblet Generator 3
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 43
 
Syndicate Thug — Y-Wing 18
Twin Laser Turret 6
Unhinged Astromech 1
Ship Total: 25

My beloved 40K armies Red Corsairs
Order of Saint Pan Thera
Da Krome Toof Killas

DR:80S+++G+M+B++IPw40K(3)00-D++A+++/cWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Fake Englandland

 Peregrine wrote:
Yeah, no. Quad TLT is one of the easiest lists to fly if you're even minimally competent at planning maneuvers. Put your ships into a box formation, roll TLT dice until someone wins. I'm not going to object to taking a powerful list in a tournament where winning is the goal, but don't pretend that it requires any meaningful skill to win with it.

I'll vouch for this, it's bloody brain dead, 4 tlts, Unhinged Astros, roll dice until game is over, focus every round. I've flown this several times, and it's not an I-win button, but it's good, Y-wings are tough enough to do the job, TLTs are amazing, Unhinged makes it easy to clear stress, and if you fly it well enough, even if someone gets in the R1 doughnut, you've still got more of them that can plink it to death

Shadowrun is the best game ever. It's the only thing I have ever played in which I have jumped out of a shot out van with a chainsaw to cut a flying drone in half before leveling a building with ANFO assisted by a troll, a dwarf, an elf, and a wizard. 
   
Made in us
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Lincolnton, N.C.

Well that's why I add in Torkil Mux, it's not a carbon copy of the quad tlt list and his ability can make an arc dodging ace have a bad day.

My beloved 40K armies Red Corsairs
Order of Saint Pan Thera
Da Krome Toof Killas

DR:80S+++G+M+B++IPw40K(3)00-D++A+++/cWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 KingmanHighborn wrote:
I put the proton torps on kavil to light the harpoon's candle


Apparently TLT can trigger Harpooned under the right conditions.

Twin Laser Turret states, "Each time this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage. Then cancel all dice results."
Harpooned! states, "When you are hit by an attack if there is at least 1 uncanceled critical result, each other ship at Range 1 suffers 1 damage. Then discard this card and receive 1 facedown Damage card."

So in this case TLT Kavil firing on someone with Harpooned after dice are rolled if there is 1 uncanceled crit result you check who has initiative if Kavil has it TLT resolves first preventing Harpooned from resolving, but if the ship with Harpooned has initiative you resolve Harpooned then TLT.
   
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Bird from Hell






 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Okay then what about one of these:


List 1 is ok. I'm not sold on the choice of ships, but if you're committed to the Y/HWK/Kimogila trio they're all at least equipped with reasonable choices.

List 2 is worse. Cruise missiles are worthless on a ship that can't do a 4-straight to fire them, take harpoons on the Kimogila. And I'm not sold at all on Sol Sixxa or the outlaw tech. Nym and the title are just so powerful you have to have a very compelling reason not to take them, and I don't see this ship being that reason. At least, if you're committed to Sol Sixxa's bomb tricks, take the title so you can really abuse the bomblets with advanced sensors and Genius.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Well that's why I add in Torkil Mux, it's not a carbon copy of the quad tlt list and his ability can make an arc dodging ace have a bad day.


Mux is actually pretty weak against aces. PS 0 doesn't make much of a difference because the ace has already dodged arcs/range and piled up its defensive tokens, and ace players will rarely put their ship into a situation where it has to kill its target or die to return fire. The only ace it's really effective against Whisper, who is nonexistent in the current meta. Where Mux is actually effective is against jousting ships, which do depend on trading fire successfully. Dropping them to PS 0 potentially lets you win the exchange and kill them before they get their shots off.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/03 15:36:29


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Lincolnton, N.C.

 Peregrine wrote:
 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Okay then what about one of these:


List 1 is ok. I'm not sold on the choice of ships, but if you're committed to the Y/HWK/Kimogila trio they're all at least equipped with reasonable choices.

List 2 is worse. Cruise missiles are worthless on a ship that can't do a 4-straight to fire them, take harpoons on the Kimogila. And I'm not sold at all on Sol Sixxa or the outlaw tech. Nym and the title are just so powerful you have to have a very compelling reason not to take them, and I don't see this ship being that reason. At least, if you're committed to Sol Sixxa's bomb tricks, take the title so you can really abuse the bomblets with advanced sensors and Genius.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Well that's why I add in Torkil Mux, it's not a carbon copy of the quad tlt list and his ability can make an arc dodging ace have a bad day.


Mux is actually pretty weak against aces. PS 0 doesn't make much of a difference because the ace has already dodged arcs/range and piled up its defensive tokens, and ace players will rarely put their ship into a situation where it has to kill its target or die to return fire. The only ace it's really effective against Whisper, who is nonexistent in the current meta. Where Mux is actually effective is against jousting ships, which do depend on trading fire successfully. Dropping them to PS 0 potentially lets you win the exchange and kill them before they get their shots off.


About the only thing I'm 'committed' to is the Kimo, but rest is up in the air.

As far as aces go, Mux in a vacuum, you're probably right, but with 3 tlt ys, that's going to strip those tokens, and get damage through. It's worked against Soontir and Rau before.

My beloved 40K armies Red Corsairs
Order of Saint Pan Thera
Da Krome Toof Killas

DR:80S+++G+M+B++IPw40K(3)00-D++A+++/cWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
 
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