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Subject: Contemplating a New Direction for my Marines
So now that the rules for most flavors of spess muhreen (including chaos muhreens) are out, I'm trying to decide what to do with my humble marine collection. Some of the recent fluff developments leave me feeling like my existing chapters are too... busy, and mechanical changes make me feel that my marines aren't necessarily benefitting from the most obvious chapter rules for them. So now I'm contemplating repainting some or all of them and trying to decide whether or not I'll regret doing so later. Currently, I've got...
The green guys. The green guys were (unbeknownst to the vast majority of the chapter) built as a cover for the Alpha Legion. The AL basically planted records in key locations throughout the Imperium stating that the chapter is totally legit and not a chaos cover at all, and the (loyalist) majority of the chapter was fed a similar lie along with the importance of keeping secrets and occassionally indulging in a bit of mild heresy for the sake of getting the job done.
So mechanically, these guys consist of all my tactical marines, a dread, some devastators, some terminators, and a couple random HQs. In 7th, I was using the Raptors chapter tactics and Lias Issodon's rules to represent them being sneaky marines. It didn't really work very well then, and feeding a bunch of CP to the RG stratagem to do a similar amount of sneaking around now kind of doesn't feel worth it given that my units aren't really optimized for infiltrator sucker punches.
Then there are the red guys. The red guys are Blood Angels successors that have been seeking technological means to stave off and suppress their gene flaws. They're basically a bunch of assault marines/vanguard vets with a couple dreads and terminators (plus terminator armored HQs). While I"m pleased that these guys can work as an outrider detachment this edition without relying on red armored troop choices that I don't have, I feel like the way to play BA right now is to field a bunch of SCs for stackable buff a uras, and that's not really what my collection supports. I"m playing a successor rather than BA 1.0, after all.
I should mention that I also have a chaos marine force consisting mostly of a couple chaos marine blobs, some random HQs, and a smattering of noise marines, 1k sons, and warp talons.
So I'm kind of torn on which direction to go. Marines don't really fit their "small elite force" feel in the first place these days, and I'm not sure either of my marine armies are really optimized enough to pull off the "sneaky marine" and "fast assault marine" concepts I had in mind for each of them. So what do you think? Is there a way to make my general army concepts feasible? And if not, will I regret repainting my marines more than I'll appreciate changing paint schemes and using such and such rules? Or am I better off just using my marines as my B-list army for casual games this edition?
I kind of love my special snowflake chapters and kind of hate how busy they feel alongside the Shield of Baal and other developments in the newer fluff. I kind of love my current paint schemes and kind of want to redo my old, sloppy paint jobs. I kind of love the concept of small, elite forces consisting largely of "classic" marine units, and kind of hate that that concept doesn't seem to really hold water at the moment. Yet it feels like a shame to have a decent little marine force and not be doing something with it. Suggestions?
Subject: Contemplating a New Direction for my Marines
You could run them as Salamanders shoot offs. I find the salamander trait works best if you don't have any tanks and use small squads. My Salamanders army doesn't use anything newer than what was available during 4th edition (not even grav weapons) and it does really well. I use a lot of small squads, 5 men, with combi flamer and heavy weapon (normally rocket or laz cannon), the reroll one hit and one wound roll per squad really makes sure those single heavy weapons hit. Take some long range fire Support (always been a fan of the whirlwinds) and dreadnoughts for counter charge / fire Support an army that's quite accurate and able to put some serious hurt on enemy armor.
Marines are in a tough position right now. Pure marine is going to be an uphill battle due to the pure number of multi wound high Ap weapons out there. But don't give up hope, it can be done.
If your debating chaos vs marines, chaos has a lot going for it but your limitations are pretty steep if your trying to make a chaos army that wants to look loyalist, so I would stick with marines.
Subject: Re:Contemplating a New Direction for my Marines
Lias can infiltrate himself and 3 Infantry units at the end of ANY movement phase, and as Raptors gain the -1 to hit that RG get. You can also use the strategem to infiltrate more for 1cp a go. The strength of the list is using Lias's ability to keep your 3 damage dealing Infantry units safe from Alpha strike. Don't know too much about marines this edition, but Reece at frontline is a good place for you to find out what works and doesn't.