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Hey,

new to 30k and this question has kept me wondering. Does it matter? Can you go for your own preference?

The MK of your armor makes no rules / mechanical difference of your army will play.

It's purely a aesthetic / lore thing. Some armies typically used more of one MK then the other a multitude of reasons, but ultimately it's down to you and what you like the look of most.

As a 'historical' game, you should make some effort to keep to the setting's armour marks. It's generally agreed that you should try and keep it between Mks 2, 3, 4 and 5 for most Legions.

Mk2 and Mk4 would have been the most common and make up the bulk of a Legion.
Mk2 is for the Legions with worse supply lines, as might be seen on the outskirts of the galaxy or with a preference for older gear.
Mk4 is for the newer Legions, those with high recruitment rates, or on good terms with the Mechanicum / Horus.
Mk3 was a relatively specialist suit used on units expecting to get shot a lot, where protection was more important than speed. Especially prevalent among the grindy / attrition Legions such as Iron Warriors or Salamanders.

Mk5 would be increasingly common as the war went on and works well as an excuse to convert or create your own style of armour. Similarly, any third-party bits can be explained as alternate designs or rigged emergency parts.
Mk6 was not in full production and while it was present, should be very rare for the most part. Raven Guard had a lot of it, but otherwise suits would have been cannibalized or extremely new productions.
Mk7 and onwards did not exist in this time period.
However, it is justifiable to claim that some models might be wearing experimental, prototype or unique pieces of armour, especially among command elements.

In practice, most people build the bulk of their army from Mk3 or 4 because the boxed sets are such good value. Mk 2, 5 and 6 tend to be saved for specialists where the higher model cost doesn't hurt so much.

MK VII did exist in this timeline though not that commonly but specifically around the time siege of terra kicked in they were in smallish quantities available so for the 3 loyalist legions there they could work especially in small quantities. (well then again in HH game scale even small quantities is more than enough for standard game size like up to 8k to be all MKVII without being "unrealistic")

What I'm less sure did they have the eagle symbol on chest already or would it be more appropriate HH VII to shave those off. Since I'll be using those in small numbers with blood angels(especially to bolster assault marines for reasonable price) would be nice to know.

I'm waiting for someone to field a coupe of Primaris marines in their Ultramarines force. I mean, they were originally developed around this time, right?

Other than that, you should be free to use mark 2 through 6 with no issue. Mark 7 is somewhat iffy, since the official timeline of Forge World's books hasn't reached the siege of Earth yet.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Mark 7 is somewhat iffy, since the official timeline of Forge World's books hasn't reached the siege of Earth yet.

What iffy that is? The event still happened. You don't need permission to play there.

I'll be honest I'm not one of these HH players that demand upmost historical accuracy.

I spend time making my look army cool and in fitting with where I want it in the timeline but I don't really care about what MK my opponent's army is.

Much rather people spend time painting there army, any Mk really from 2-7 was used during the HH.

I strive for "historical accuracy", but only to an extent. Most of my marines are mark 4 (as are most peoples' thanks to Betrayal At Calth ), but I've got an Assault Squad of half-and-half mark 2 and 5, with some odds and ends of mark 3, and some mark 6 legs and backpacks when I ran out of Heresy ones.

Yeah, as said above - the Legions were pretty damn big, so you can get away using anything from Marks 2-6. 6 was quite rare, mostly left to the Raven Guard (hence being called "Corvus" pattern), but everyone had access to it. Marks 2, 3 and 4 were probably most common.

Mark 7 is iffy, seeing as it was only in production in the later stages of the war, and only became available to those few Legions who actively took part in the Battle for Terra. If your game/campaign takes place then, that's perfect for you. If you're doing the Shadow Crusade in Ultramar? Probably not.

Marks 8 and 10 were absolutely not available at the time (but Mark 10 is far bigger than the rest, so is probably invalid based on pure modelling grounds).

I 100% strive to make my models the best looking & accurate as I can. I'm currently in the process of making Gahlan Surak which involves a Mk4 body, converting a narthecium to include and a needle pistol and finding a sweet power axe.

I also appreciate some of my friends have long days and limited funds. I'd rather throw down against them using the wrong MK armor then not play them at all.

Forgeworld is hardly cheap let's be honest.

Theres alot cheaper bulk in mk3/4. 2/5 are resin and alot more expensive per unit cost.

Mk 6 beak, well can plastic but full sets rarer and need alot to make. You you can bodge mk5 out of a mix of kits but honestly for bulk forces plastic box sets ideal for building larger tactical units etx in bulk at reasonable pricing.

Mk,7 and such is historic issue but Ita a expensive hobby, some people Don t have cash for all fancy models so be abit sensible. They may only be able to afford unique units and have to use Mars pattern tanks etc in plastic.

I don't think there's really a point striving for a huge level of historical accuracy. I mean, very few fighting forces after the breakout of the Heresy would have been all equipped the same way, each with full sets of production-standard MK4 armour and riding around in ONLY Deimos rhinos. Different Forge Worlds made different things, and forces had to resupply wherever they could.

That being said, I think it's important to a lot of players, visually, that the army looks recognisably like a Heresy army and not like a 40k army. For most, the giveaway there is MK7 chestplates and helmets - the key things that set 40k marines apart from old-fashioned ones, and the key thing that tells people your army is Heresy. Everything else is pretty negotiable.

As an example, here are some of my Word Bearers - made from MK4, MK7, Anvil Industries and Maxmini bits. They're definitely not 'historically accurate' in any way, but I think they still look pretty Heresy.

Generally speaking the mark doesn't matter as much as the lack of embellishment. You'll notice that Heresy era armor has very little scrollwork, no purity seals, a general lack of marking. The reason, of course, is that the Imperial warmachine is in its most industrious phase and churning out war material as fast as it can, so squad markings are painted on. It's only in the higher echelons of command that you'll see intricately detailed armor.

So don't be afraid to mix and match. Most of the Legions, especially during the Heresy, did. The only "pristine" fighting forces in the Heresy were the defenders of Terra just as the Siege hit, and even then a lot of late defenders arriving didn't have much time to do little more than scrap together their armor. So don't be afraid to let your creativity fly.

Mozzamanx wrote:
As a 'historical' game, you should make some effort to keep to the setting's armour marks. It's generally agreed that you should try and keep it between Mks 2, 3, 4 and 5 for most Legions.

Mk2 and Mk4 would have been the most common and make up the bulk of a Legion.
Mk2 is for the Legions with worse supply lines, as might be seen on the outskirts of the galaxy or with a preference for older gear.
Mk4 is for the newer Legions, those with high recruitment rates, or on good terms with the Mechanicum / Horus.
Mk3 was a relatively specialist suit used on units expecting to get shot a lot, where protection was more important than speed. Especially prevalent among the grindy / attrition Legions such as Iron Warriors or Salamanders.

Mk5 would be increasingly common as the war went on and works well as an excuse to convert or create your own style of armour. Similarly, any third-party bits can be explained as alternate designs or rigged emergency parts.
Mk6 was not in full production and while it was present, should be very rare for the most part. Raven Guard had a lot of it, but otherwise suits would have been cannibalized or extremely new productions.
Mk7 and onwards did not exist in this time period.
However, it is justifiable to claim that some models might be wearing experimental, prototype or unique pieces of armour, especially among command elements.

In practice, most people build the bulk of their army from Mk3 or 4 because the boxed sets are such good value. Mk 2, 5 and 6 tend to be saved for specialists where the higher model cost doesn't hurt so much.

Also note that what would become the MkVII helm is in the FW books, identified as the "Sarum-pattern helm variant" - Sarum being a forge liberated by the world eaters, it means any world eaters (or primarily world eaters force or another closely allied traitor force drawing on their logistics like word bearers) might well have 'modern' astartes helmets.

 ArbitorIan wrote:
I don't think there's really a point striving for a huge level of historical accuracy. I mean, very few fighting forces after the breakout of the Heresy would have been all equipped the same way, each with full sets of production-standard MK4 armour and riding around in ONLY Deimos rhinos. Different Forge Worlds made different things, and forces had to resupply wherever they could.

That being said, I think it's important to a lot of players, visually, that the army looks recognisably like a Heresy army and not like a 40k army. For most, the giveaway there is MK7 chestplates and helmets - the key things that set 40k marines apart from old-fashioned ones, and the key thing that tells people your army is Heresy. Everything else is pretty negotiable.

Yes and im doing the same with my Word Bearers. It helps theyre the most chaotic Legion of them all. I use Dark Vengeance plastics for normal marines with swapped helmets and bolters, Khorne Berzerkers for Destroyers, new Plague Marines for Gal Vorbak, etc.

If you open the Visions of Heresy book or look at old artworks from Horus Heresy card game then you will see that as long as the armour looks a little baroque and different to MK7 then it can pass as something from Heresy. You can even come to the conclusion that today plastics are too similar to each other

The Mark doesn't matter that much, but if you go for legion specific heads and torsoes, thy fit better with some marks than others. In the end it comes down to mostly looks, not gameplay effect.

Thank you for quality posts everyone, was really a great read and kind of opened the whole scene for me. In many ways, lot better than some official stuff.

I am really torn on which legion to go for, lot of them seem interesting. Word Bearers, Space Wolves, White Scars, Death Guard.... Could be any of those to be honest, any gameplay limitations with those, some that I should know about before buying any?

locarno24 wrote:


Also note that what would become the MkVII helm is in the FW books, identified as the "Sarum-pattern helm variant" - Sarum being a forge liberated by the world eaters, it means any world eaters (or primarily world eaters force or another closely allied traitor force drawing on their logistics like word bearers) might well have 'modern' astartes helmets.

Although it does look it at first glance because of the artists choice of proportions it is actually MkV and it actually says as much under the first instance in the book.

Ilgoth wrote:
Thank you for quality posts everyone, was really a great read and kind of opened the whole scene for me. In many ways, lot better than some official stuff.

I am really torn on which legion to go for, lot of them seem interesting. Word Bearers, Space Wolves, White Scars, Death Guard.... Could be any of those to be honest, any gameplay limitations with those, some that I should know about before buying any?

Yes and no. Some armies lend themselves bit better to some ways to play. For example world eaters have hard time making gunline! Mind you they CAN make one but if they run into dedicated gun line army from legion better suited to it you are in trouble. I mean if you get bonus to close combat and opponent gets say +1 to hit on bolters or doesn't worry about casualties from shooting it's pretty hard to win shoot out when you have otherwise equal armies!

However apart from legion specific units you don't really lock yourself out of any units and can't even be blamed for unfluffiness. Legions were huge and had access to same tools generally so jetbiking iron warriors, world eater mortars and heavy support squads etc are all possible to use.

There might be some small restrictions I don't remember but about only I can remember is summoned daemons are VERY rare(wonder if traitors get more access to those in siege of terra?). Basically world bearers only I think. Maybe Magnus?

One thing to consider is if you want to use FW upgrade bits in which case check which mark they are supposed to be for. 3 or 4.

Ilgoth wrote:
Hey,

new to 30k and this question has kept me wondering. Does it matter? Can you go for your own preference?

Rules wise not really

but 30k is more "historical" than 40k.

it may rustle some jimmies for a bunch of people in armor marks they wouldn't of had or hate using.

or just play alpha legion and say they are sneaking

Stick to MK 2, 3, 4 and 5 for all Legions. Dip into 6 for all legions except for the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion who can go "Full Corvus" without nerds raging against you. 7 should be limited to special characters and any Loyal Legion that fought at Terra. Make sure you use 7 armor that does not have the Aquilla or purity seals on it.

Purity seals are OK; they're "oaths of moment" during the Heresy.

Ilgoth wrote:
Thank you for quality posts everyone, was really a great read and kind of opened the whole scene for me. In many ways, lot better than some official stuff.

I am really torn on which legion to go for, lot of them seem interesting. Word Bearers, Space Wolves, White Scars, Death Guard.... Could be any of those to be honest, any gameplay limitations with those, some that I should know about before buying any?

Out of the ones you listed... Word Bearers, Death guard and White scars can do shooting and close combat quite well, space wolves really about getting in hand to with large units of grey slayers.

tneva82 wrote:
MK VII did exist in this timeline though not that commonly but specifically around the time siege of terra kicked in they were in smallish quantities available so for the 3 loyalist legions there they could work especially in small quantities. (well then again in HH game scale even small quantities is more than enough for standard game size like up to 8k to be all MKVII without being "unrealistic")

What I'm less sure did they have the eagle symbol on chest already or would it be more appropriate HH VII to shave those off. Since I'll be using those in small numbers with blood angels(especially to bolster assault marines for reasonable price) would be nice to know.

mkvii was only released to the loyalists as the siege of Terra, it also did have the Aquila on it as that was placed on the armour to identify traitors from loyalists. In terms of modelling and gaming however, unless you are specifically re-enacting the siege of Terra I wouldn't touch mkvii heads, shoulder pads, chest plates or backpacks with a 10ft barge pole. arms can be got away with as they aren't too noticeable and many of FW's conversions use them, I would reserve legs for characters but limit myself to a very small amount (i.e. maybe a couple of pairs at absolute most).

Well we set up to siege of terra specifically to get affordable assault marines for blood angels. Otherwise they would be stuck with just 1 unit.

Also justifies warped chaos titan.

tneva82 wrote:
Well we set up to siege of terra specifically to get affordable assault marines for blood angels. Otherwise they would be stuck with just 1 unit.

Also justifies warped chaos titan.

you can always try anf file the chest aqulla down abit, trim back purity seals etc and paint as armour plugs.


may make the armour more apceptable

Mozzamanx wrote:
As a 'historical' game, you should make some effort to keep to the setting's armour marks. It's generally agreed that you should try and keep it between Mks 2, 3, 4 and 5 for most Legions.

Mk2 and Mk4 would have been the most common and make up the bulk of a Legion.
Mk2 is for the Legions with worse supply lines, as might be seen on the outskirts of the galaxy or with a preference for older gear.
Mk4 is for the newer Legions, those with high recruitment rates, or on good terms with the Mechanicum / Horus.
Mk3 was a relatively specialist suit used on units expecting to get shot a lot, where protection was more important than speed. Especially prevalent among the grindy / attrition Legions such as Iron Warriors or Salamanders.

Mk5 would be increasingly common as the war went on and works well as an excuse to convert or create your own style of armour. Similarly, any third-party bits can be explained as alternate designs or rigged emergency parts.
Mk6 was not in full production and while it was present, should be very rare for the most part. Raven Guard had a lot of it, but otherwise suits would have been cannibalized or extremely new productions.
Mk7 and onwards did not exist in this time period.
However, it is justifiable to claim that some models might be wearing experimental, prototype or unique pieces of armour, especially among command elements.

In practice, most people build the bulk of their army from Mk3 or 4 because the boxed sets are such good value. Mk 2, 5 and 6 tend to be saved for specialists where the higher model cost doesn't hurt so much.

Yes and no, really I would say do what ever you want to the OP, because you can explain almost any combination of mark armor. There are examples of Mk VII helmets since the first HH book, the rest of the suit is iffy but if the OP chooses a siege of Terra battle then you can have all the Mk VII you want really. For that matter any force that was stationed on Terra/Sol system at some point can have Mk VII- say they were sent to Beta-Garmon or some other theater after mustering on Terra.

Mk VI was also field tested by the Iron Warriors of all people alongside the RG and AL. They hated it and sought to block it, but field testing would atleast involve a company of armor or so, so it'd be fluffy to have an entire Mk VI IW force. At that point you could argue your own company was allowed to field test it and it just fell through the bureaucratic cracks.

The rest of the marks are either local/patch work patterns which are easy enough, or standard patterns out long enough you can do to preference as you've said. While it's more historical than 40k it's not fundamentally historical war-gaming in the sense that things are set in stone. We don't have flight and cargo manifests saying Legion X only received armors Y, so I always say build what inspires you and then, as long as it's not too far out there, figure out how it can fit into the fluff.

In terms of game play limitations, it depends. Certain legions will be better than others at certain tasks than others, but that doesn't preclude the legion form performing the tasks. A good example could be World Eaters are very good at assault, but if we want to talk about fluff not every company was a close combat melee company. You'd have lots of ranged/tank companies during the crusade and even the Heresy, probably less and less as time went on but they'd be there. The same with the DG, they aren't famous for their land speeders/fast recon companies but I'd bet an Imperator titan that they exist.

Ultimately it depends on whether you have a certain style you want to min-max, or love a certain legion and screw efficiency

R0bcrt wrote:
There are examples of Mk VII helmets since the first HH book

No there aren't: "Helmet fitted with M.30 'Mantilla' pattern respiration unit (later to become standard issue on MkV pattern armour)" ~ Betrayal page 71

The artist did kinda undersize MkV facial bulges (completely lacking on MkVII) but they are still there (and pages 72, 74 & 93), the only other instances of those helmets I can think of are of the Gethsemene Host and Alpha Legionnaires in Book.. 6? who are wearing full production MkV.

 Gashrog wrote:

R0bcrt wrote:
There are examples of Mk VII helmets since the first HH book

No there aren't: "Helmet fitted with M.30 'Mantilla' pattern respiration unit (later to become standard issue on MkV pattern armour)" ~ Betrayal page 71

The artist did kinda undersize MkV facial bulges (completely lacking on MkVII) but they are still there (and pages 72, 74 & 93), the only other instances of those helmets I can think of are of the Gethsemene Host and Alpha Legionnaires in Book.. 6? who are wearing full production MkV.

Technically you are correct, but “a rose by any other name” rule applies. I don’t have my books on me currently though to do half picture comparisons. I contend the bulges are smaller not by accident but by design; there are a couple of Mk VII helmets that do have those “mini bulges” reminiscent of Mk V. Further more if you look at the ridge in between the eyes it’s triangular in multiple examples, and not squared like how Mk V is almost always portrayed, and it’s also with a Salamander marine in a later book so it’s no coincidence/artist error. Not to mention the respirator also looks like some mk VII variants more than mk V. The only thing it’s really lacking is the top “Mohawk” vent in some, and a much smaller one than traditional V or VII in others

If we wanted to get nitty-gritty I’d say the Mantilla pattern is an evolutionary ancestor between V and VII, where V is a major offshoot and VII a minor development of the mantilla pattern. Compare different examples of Mk VII and you’ll see it has more in common than not, easily enough to justify using plastic Mk VII as a base.

Ilgoth wrote:
Thank you for quality posts everyone, was really a great read and kind of opened the whole scene for me. In many ways, lot better than some official stuff.

I am really torn on which legion to go for, lot of them seem interesting. Word Bearers, Space Wolves, White Scars, Death Guard.... Could be any of those to be honest, any gameplay limitations with those, some that I should know about before buying any?

Only thing wolves don't use is artillery when using legion specific tactics, not a big problem as you want to get stuck in melee anyway.

The only legion where big squads of troops are actually good.