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Made in us
Been Around the Block





Just what the subject line says. Any canon chapters that have rejected Primaris Marines?
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





No none. GW's not going to say "this chapter rejected them" because they wanna ensure everyone feels they have the option to use them.
the chapters who rejected them is just GW giving lisence for you to not use them in a homebrew chapter

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





The closest would be Dark Angels, who were basically press ganged into using them by Guilliman. They don't let them on in any of the chapter secrets and basically use them as cannon fodder.
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

Dark angels keep them locked out thr inner circle etx but not they could refuse primarch orders openly..

Guliman has alot more loyal marines, alot more influence than the dark angels chapter... Legion master.

The only one who could rival him and act as there strong arm would be the Lion.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 jhe90 wrote:
Dark angels keep them locked out thr inner circle etx but not they could refuse primarch orders openly..

Guliman has alot more loyal marines, alot more influence than the dark angels chapter... Legion master.

The only one who could rival him and act as there strong arm would be the Lion.


and even in that case it's questionable weather then Lion WOULD refuse them. He'd be just as likely to thank Gulliman for the reinforcements. given the man isn't as invested in the secrecy about the fallen as his chapter is. for all we know the Lion'd immedaitly upon return grab a beer with Gulliman and be all like "yeah so some of my legion went bad, those silly idiots have been covering it up for ten thousand years can you belive it?"

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in tw
Longtime Dakkanaut





BrianDavion wrote:
 jhe90 wrote:
Dark angels keep them locked out thr inner circle etx but not they could refuse primarch orders openly..

Guliman has alot more loyal marines, alot more influence than the dark angels chapter... Legion master.

The only one who could rival him and act as there strong arm would be the Lion.


and even in that case it's questionable weather then Lion WOULD refuse them. He'd be just as likely to thank Gulliman for the reinforcements. given the man isn't as invested in the secrecy about the fallen as his chapter is. for all we know the Lion'd immedaitly upon return grab a beer with Gulliman and be all like "yeah so some of my legion went bad, those silly idiots have been covering it up for ten thousand years can you belive it?"


I totally agree.

I think the Lion being a consummate commander would appreciate having the best tool at his disposal to use. And lore wise that is now supposed to be the primaris astartes.

(Not that I like the new lore much. But from a purely pragmatic standpoint the Imperium needs everything it can get, and if these guys really are a cut above the astartes then who in thier right mind would refuse them? Not any competent commander, surely. And all things else left aside, the Lion is a competent commander.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Carlovonsexron wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 jhe90 wrote:
Dark angels keep them locked out thr inner circle etx but not they could refuse primarch orders openly..

Guliman has alot more loyal marines, alot more influence than the dark angels chapter... Legion master.

The only one who could rival him and act as there strong arm would be the Lion.


and even in that case it's questionable weather then Lion WOULD refuse them. He'd be just as likely to thank Gulliman for the reinforcements. given the man isn't as invested in the secrecy about the fallen as his chapter is. for all we know the Lion'd immedaitly upon return grab a beer with Gulliman and be all like "yeah so some of my legion went bad, those silly idiots have been covering it up for ten thousand years can you belive it?"


I totally agree.

I think the Lion being a consummate commander would appreciate having the best tool at his disposal to use. And lore wise that is now supposed to be the primaris astartes.

(Not that I like the new lore much. But from a purely pragmatic standpoint the Imperium needs everything it can get, and if these guys really are a cut above the astartes then who in thier right mind would refuse them? Not any competent commander, surely. And all things else left aside, the Lion is a competent commander.


Depends. The genemods are a flat boost, but Cawltech isn't very compatible with the breadth of tactical flexibility marine tech can bring to bear. Their current use in Dark Angels is about right: A supplement to the "greenwing".

And quite honestly any competent commander with even a sliver of concern for his troops as either people or resources would swiftly drop the use of redemptor dreadnoughts if allowed to act in character in that regard.
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




There are currently no Grey Knight Primaris...

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





right behind you

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
There are currently no Grey Knight Primaris...



That's likely because not even cawl has access to their geneseed, just like just about everyone.

1650 points approx. of deathwatch
2500 points aprox. of alpha legion and thousand sons
50 power admech
60 power salamanders
70 power thousand sons


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




North Carolina

If GW weren't profit driven, all the non codex Marines would have rejected them.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 beezley1981 wrote:
If GW weren't profit driven, all the non codex Marines would have rejected them.


... why?

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






BrianDavion wrote:
 beezley1981 wrote:
If GW weren't profit driven, all the non codex Marines would have rejected them.


... why?


Ditto. Too many gamers approach this from a fan perspective. In universe why would any Chapter oppose reinforcements during a time of massive strife? Unlike most of the Imperium space marines don't tend to be orthodox in their beliefs; they are pragmatists who will happily slap a bunch of lascannons on a Land Raider regardless of what the tech priests say.

If they get offered new stronger marines, with no geneseed drawbacks (yet), and no requirement that the Chapter does anything with them other than continue the good fight in their own non-codex way, why would they reject them?
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Denny wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 beezley1981 wrote:
If GW weren't profit driven, all the non codex Marines would have rejected them.


... why?


Ditto. Too many gamers approach this from a fan perspective. In universe why would any Chapter oppose reinforcements during a time of massive strife? Unlike most of the Imperium space marines don't tend to be orthodox in their beliefs; they are pragmatists who will happily slap a bunch of lascannons on a Land Raider regardless of what the tech priests say.

If they get offered new stronger marines, with no geneseed drawbacks (yet), and no requirement that the Chapter does anything with them other than continue the good fight in their own non-codex way, why would they reject them?


this. the idea that the non codex compliant chapters dislike Gulliman? is a meme and a bad one. most of the non codex compliant chapters are ancient dating back to the 2nd founding, and they may have their reasons for not following the codex but they'll respect Gulliman eneugh to hear him out on individual issues. We know he managed to gain the respect of the Black Templars, he didn't order them to obey etc. He explained what he was doing and reminded the Black Templars of their history. The Blood Angels? well.. the Primarch basicly saved their blood line and provided them with potentially a rebirth. remember prior to Primars Marines the blood line of Sanguinis was DYING. it was a slow death but it was there. And the blood angels would proably have died out fighting Levithan. so yeah... Gulliman comes along with Primaris Marines? the guys likely viewed by a lotta the blood of Sanguinis as a savior. The Space Wolves? a pratical minded people, They'll force the Primaris Marines to prove themselves, but once they have they'll be accepting.
The Dark angels might be a little leery sure, but at the same time refusing them would likely result in new scrutiny if everyone else is accepting them. The Dark Angels have pretty much taken the most logical course for them. Accept them but keep Primaris out of the inner circle.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops

At least one Chapter (Carcharodons) have obtained their Primaris marines from non-Gulliman sources.

 Jon Garrett wrote:
Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.

"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."

"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"

"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."

"...Kunnin'."
 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

How do they fit with SW? What genesead is used?

   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Niiai wrote:
How do they fit with SW? What genesead is used?
Pre-heresy SW geneseed.

The Space Wolves are a dead chapter walking. Fenris was purged to the point of unsustainability, there simply aren't enough Fenrisians for them to survive. In only a few decades Fenrisians will be extinct and then the Space Wolves die as a chapter, to be replaced in name only by Primaris. They need primaris to function at all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/19 05:42:08


 
   
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[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Let's not get too hung up on SWs being "natives" (a question in itself) of Fenris, considering that like all the Legions the original inductees were Terran.

   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

Agh.. Agh...

Primus geneseed might not require them to be Fenris and such.

Now there still wolves and those new recruits could still be trained in the old ways, be the blood claw etc just a primus blood claw. A primus marine body, that's space wolf through and through.

They just become bigger, tougher normal space wolves.

Not extinction, just evolution.

The space wolves will not die out.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in gb
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot





Freezing to death outside the Fang

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The closest would be Dark Angels, who were basically press ganged into using them by Guilliman. They don't let them on in any of the chapter secrets and basically use them as cannon fodder.

IIRC the Flesh Tearers hate them as well and Gabriel Seth actively opposed them being added to his chapter and referred to them as ultramarines in red armour.

host of the eternity king 3500pts+ lizardmen 1000pts
and 2000pts+ 8000+ pts 1400+ pts
HH 7700+ pts 1350 pts HH raven guard 2500+ pts 50 pp Idoneth Deepkin 2000 pts 
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





He's just jelly because Cawl solved the Flesh Tearer's 'problem.'


Automatically Appended Next Post:
changemod wrote:
Carlovonsexron wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 jhe90 wrote:
Dark angels keep them locked out thr inner circle etx but not they could refuse primarch orders openly..

Guliman has alot more loyal marines, alot more influence than the dark angels chapter... Legion master.

The only one who could rival him and act as there strong arm would be the Lion.


and even in that case it's questionable weather then Lion WOULD refuse them. He'd be just as likely to thank Gulliman for the reinforcements. given the man isn't as invested in the secrecy about the fallen as his chapter is. for all we know the Lion'd immedaitly upon return grab a beer with Gulliman and be all like "yeah so some of my legion went bad, those silly idiots have been covering it up for ten thousand years can you belive it?"


I totally agree.

I think the Lion being a consummate commander would appreciate having the best tool at his disposal to use. And lore wise that is now supposed to be the primaris astartes.

(Not that I like the new lore much. But from a purely pragmatic standpoint the Imperium needs everything it can get, and if these guys really are a cut above the astartes then who in thier right mind would refuse them? Not any competent commander, surely. And all things else left aside, the Lion is a competent commander.


Depends. The genemods are a flat boost, but Cawltech isn't very compatible with the breadth of tactical flexibility marine tech can bring to bear. Their current use in Dark Angels is about right: A supplement to the "greenwing".

And quite honestly any competent commander with even a sliver of concern for his troops as either people or resources would swiftly drop the use of redemptor dreadnoughts if allowed to act in character in that regard.

I haven't read the SM codex. What's the deal with the Redemptor Dreadnoughts? Similar problems to the HH-era Leviathans?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/19 13:50:58


 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 Glasdir wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
The closest would be Dark Angels, who were basically press ganged into using them by Guilliman. They don't let them on in any of the chapter secrets and basically use them as cannon fodder.

IIRC the Flesh Tearers hate them as well and Gabriel Seth actively opposed them being added to his chapter and referred to them as ultramarines in red armour.


He was talking to Dante about Primaris Blood Angels, but yeah. His argument was basically, without the flaws of the geneseed, they lose what makes them Sons of Sanguinius. Although I think even then they accepted them.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

Nurglitch wrote:
He's just jelly because Cawl solved the Flesh Tearer's 'problem.'


Automatically Appended Next Post:
changemod wrote:
Carlovonsexron wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 jhe90 wrote:
Dark angels keep them locked out thr inner circle etx but not they could refuse primarch orders openly..

Guliman has alot more loyal marines, alot more influence than the dark angels chapter... Legion master.

The only one who could rival him and act as there strong arm would be the Lion.


and even in that case it's questionable weather then Lion WOULD refuse them. He'd be just as likely to thank Gulliman for the reinforcements. given the man isn't as invested in the secrecy about the fallen as his chapter is. for all we know the Lion'd immedaitly upon return grab a beer with Gulliman and be all like "yeah so some of my legion went bad, those silly idiots have been covering it up for ten thousand years can you belive it?"


I totally agree.

I think the Lion being a consummate commander would appreciate having the best tool at his disposal to use. And lore wise that is now supposed to be the primaris astartes.

(Not that I like the new lore much. But from a purely pragmatic standpoint the Imperium needs everything it can get, and if these guys really are a cut above the astartes then who in thier right mind would refuse them? Not any competent commander, surely. And all things else left aside, the Lion is a competent commander.


Depends. The genemods are a flat boost, but Cawltech isn't very compatible with the breadth of tactical flexibility marine tech can bring to bear. Their current use in Dark Angels is about right: A supplement to the "greenwing".

And quite honestly any competent commander with even a sliver of concern for his troops as either people or resources would swiftly drop the use of redemptor dreadnoughts if allowed to act in character in that regard.

I haven't read the SM codex. What's the deal with the Redemptor Dreadnoughts? Similar problems to the HH-era Leviathans?


Similar. Extremely taxing on the pilot.
They burn out quicker than someone else using a regular dreadnought chassis, they have alot more power but also they burn the pilot out faster as a concqunce.

You not see bjorns still about thousands of years later in one of those chassis.



Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

BA Primaris aren't susceptible to the ... unique patrimony of their genefather yet but how long have they gone so far? (non-rhetorical question)

   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

I said this on B&C as well:

Just the mary sue homebrew ones.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in se
Fresh-Faced New User




As someone who recently started Minotaurs I'm waiting to see just how they are meant to be implemented into the Chapter given it's dubious history and relationship with the Ultramarines.

If they get given a bunch of Primaris then I'd imagine they get treated similarly as with the Dark Angels, with suspicion and used as cannon fodder since their training process causes paranoia.

I'd be surprised if they didn't receive them sooner or later however, since Forge World made Repulsor doors for them
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Wayniac wrote:
 Glasdir wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
The closest would be Dark Angels, who were basically press ganged into using them by Guilliman. They don't let them on in any of the chapter secrets and basically use them as cannon fodder.

IIRC the Flesh Tearers hate them as well and Gabriel Seth actively opposed them being added to his chapter and referred to them as ultramarines in red armour.


He was talking to Dante about Primaris Blood Angels, but yeah. His argument was basically, without the flaws of the geneseed, they lose what makes them Sons of Sanguinius. Although I think even then they accepted them.


They did. Seth was bitter about it, but the Flesh Tearers started Desolation of Baal with a pretty wrecked chapter and finished it with next to nothing. As offended as he is by non-flawed Primaris marines, oblivion is the only alternative.

BrianDavion wrote:this. the idea that the non codex compliant chapters dislike Gulliman? is a meme and a bad one. most of the non codex compliant chapters are ancient dating back to the 2nd founding, and they may have their reasons for not following the codex but they'll respect Gulliman eneugh to hear him out on individual issues. We know he managed to gain the respect of the Black Templars, he didn't order them to obey etc. He explained what he was doing and reminded the Black Templars of their history. The Blood Angels? well.. the Primarch basicly saved their blood line and provided them with potentially a rebirth. remember prior to Primars Marines the blood line of Sanguinis was DYING. it was a slow death but it was there. And the blood angels would proably have died out fighting Levithan. so yeah... Gulliman comes along with Primaris Marines? the guys likely viewed by a lotta the blood of Sanguinis as a savior. The Space Wolves? a pratical minded people, They'll force the Primaris Marines to prove themselves, but once they have they'll be accepting.
The Dark angels might be a little leery sure, but at the same time refusing them would likely result in new scrutiny if everyone else is accepting them. The Dark Angels have pretty much taken the most logical course for them. Accept them but keep Primaris out of the inner circle.


The amusing thing is about this non-codex dislike is the actual codex fanatic chapters have even more reason to be offended by Guilliman, since he's casually bending or even breaking the codex in places. The non-codex chapters should be happy, because to some degree he is publically proving them correct (the codex isn't and can't be the be-all-end-all), while the likes of Calgar are feeling at least a little shamed and offended.

But then Guilliman didn't really intend for the Codex to be doctrine anyway, just advice.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





RejjeN wrote:
As someone who recently started Minotaurs I'm waiting to see just how they are meant to be implemented into the Chapter given it's dubious history and relationship with the Ultramarines.

If they get given a bunch of Primaris then I'd imagine they get treated similarly as with the Dark Angels, with suspicion and used as cannon fodder since their training process causes paranoia.

I'd be surprised if they didn't receive them sooner or later however, since Forge World made Repulsor doors for them
The Minotaurs, seeing as they're the lapdogs of the HLOT, will be pretty much expected to have them. Guilliman is still a Primarch, and the de facto ruler of the IOM now.


They/them

 
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Voss wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
 Glasdir wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
The closest would be Dark Angels, who were basically press ganged into using them by Guilliman. They don't let them on in any of the chapter secrets and basically use them as cannon fodder.

IIRC the Flesh Tearers hate them as well and Gabriel Seth actively opposed them being added to his chapter and referred to them as ultramarines in red armour.


He was talking to Dante about Primaris Blood Angels, but yeah. His argument was basically, without the flaws of the geneseed, they lose what makes them Sons of Sanguinius. Although I think even then they accepted them.


They did. Seth was bitter about it, but the Flesh Tearers started Desolation of Baal with a pretty wrecked chapter and finished it with next to nothing. As offended as he is by non-flawed Primaris marines, oblivion is the only alternative.

BrianDavion wrote:this. the idea that the non codex compliant chapters dislike Gulliman? is a meme and a bad one. most of the non codex compliant chapters are ancient dating back to the 2nd founding, and they may have their reasons for not following the codex but they'll respect Gulliman eneugh to hear him out on individual issues. We know he managed to gain the respect of the Black Templars, he didn't order them to obey etc. He explained what he was doing and reminded the Black Templars of their history. The Blood Angels? well.. the Primarch basicly saved their blood line and provided them with potentially a rebirth. remember prior to Primars Marines the blood line of Sanguinis was DYING. it was a slow death but it was there. And the blood angels would proably have died out fighting Levithan. so yeah... Gulliman comes along with Primaris Marines? the guys likely viewed by a lotta the blood of Sanguinis as a savior. The Space Wolves? a pratical minded people, They'll force the Primaris Marines to prove themselves, but once they have they'll be accepting.
The Dark angels might be a little leery sure, but at the same time refusing them would likely result in new scrutiny if everyone else is accepting them. The Dark Angels have pretty much taken the most logical course for them. Accept them but keep Primaris out of the inner circle.


The amusing thing is about this non-codex dislike is the actual codex fanatic chapters have even more reason to be offended by Guilliman, since he's casually bending or even breaking the codex in places. The non-codex chapters should be happy, because to some degree he is publically proving them correct (the codex isn't and can't be the be-all-end-all), while the likes of Calgar are feeling at least a little shamed and offended.

But then Guilliman didn't really intend for the Codex to be doctrine anyway, just advice.


I rather liked how, in Dark Imperium, that Calgar is alternately ashamed by Guilliman, or disappointed by his lack of reverence for his relics.
   
Made in us
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None that I have heard of. Although I am unaware as to what makes primaris marines more special than tacticools. I might pick some up if the stats are good though, and they fit in my army functionality wise.

Check out Cursed Magi Studios at cursedmagistudios.webs.com for all your painting needs! 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
RejjeN wrote:
As someone who recently started Minotaurs I'm waiting to see just how they are meant to be implemented into the Chapter given it's dubious history and relationship with the Ultramarines.

If they get given a bunch of Primaris then I'd imagine they get treated similarly as with the Dark Angels, with suspicion and used as cannon fodder since their training process causes paranoia.

I'd be surprised if they didn't receive them sooner or later however, since Forge World made Repulsor doors for them
The Minotaurs, seeing as they're the lapdogs of the HLOT, will be pretty much expected to have them. Guilliman is still a Primarch, and the de facto ruler of the IOM now.



Keep in mind Gulliman isn't primarch of the Ultramarines CHAPTER. but Primarch of the LEGION. Given the odds chances are Gulliman could be the minotaurs primarch as well. even if he isn't? he's still a high lord, leader of the council, Imperial regent. They're gonna do as he says. THAT SAID, I imagine their rivalry with the ULTRAMARINES may well have gone up a notch. Gulliman, understandably, seems to rely on the Ultramarines and progenitor chapters as his "go tos" which means I suspect the Minotaurs no longer occupy QUITE the position of privilage they are used to. I suspect they may well resent the new favored marines

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
 
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