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Got bought a Wraithknight and wanted to get a Wraith list up and running on the quick. I'm aiming heavily for target saturation here and i'm not planning to webway strike anything since it eats away at what little CP I will have.

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Vanguard Detachment - Iyanden
HQ
[45] Spiritseer - Quicken/Restrain. Warlord, Psytronome of Iyanden, Seer of the Shifting Vector

Elite
[210] 6 Wraithblades - Ghostswords
[210] 6 Wraithblades - Ghostswords
[400] 10 Wraithguard - Wraithcannons

Heavy Support
[131] Wraithlord - Ghostglaive, 2 Flamers
[131] Wraithlord - Ghostglaive, 2 Flamers
[133] Wraithlord - 2 Starcannon, 2 Shuriken Catapults

Transports
[129] Wave Serpent - Twin Shuriken Catapult, Twin Shuriken Cannon
[129] Wave Serpent - Twin Shuriken Catapult, Twin Shuriken Cannon

Super Heavy Aux Detachment - Iyanden
[482] Wraithknight - Titanic Ghostglaive, 2 Starcannon, Scattershield
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Plenty of upgrades i would love this list to have, such as D-scythes in the serpents instead of Ghostswords, Engine upgrades on the serpents, an actual farseer to lead the force, fortune things, and let me break the Wraithlords out into another detachment....

But i think I've squished about as many big threats in there as I can while still keeping a good blend of anti-troop and anti-tank.

Thoughts?

I would drop your wraithblades down to 5 man squads to pay for another Spiritseer and vectored engines on the serpent for that sweet -1 to hit. It's definitely worth the 1 CP to webway the 10 man wraithguard squad. Dropping the wraithblades makes room for the Spiritseers in the wave serpent so they can keep up with wherever the wraithguard webway in

With dropping your blades down to 5 each you could add an Enhance/Drain Spiritseer (I would give the psytronome to him). If you can pull off a charge with 5 blades with enhance, use the Psytronome and supreme disdain stratagem. Depending on how your group interprets the rule, you’re looking at least 35 attacks (3A characteristic x 5 guard doubled + 5 for ghostswords) hitting on 2s. Rerolling 1s due to spirit mark and getting extra attacks on 5+. I’ve gotten 52 hits using this and took down a Maulerfiend much to my opponents surprise (mine also... )

Point it at anything toughness 6 or less and chances are, it should die. Even large mobs. Toughness 7+ you could average 7-9 wounds on or so.

Thanks for the input folks, it's a good way to get access to a few more points. I am unconvinced that investing those points in another Spiritseer would be worth it vs other options though since there is no remaining way for me to make it psychics more reliable which would basically relegate it to being an aura stick for re-rolling 1's on the Wraithblades. But 40 attacks on the charge, 6.6 rerolls.... the 2 extra wraithblades would consistently give more attacks unless i sink CP into it, and CP are a bit too limited in this list for that to be viable.

Some other options would be:

1, [50] Upgrade the Wraithguard to D-scythes and become any assault armies worst nightmare
2, [20] Star Engines over Vectored engines to ensure the blades get close enough and I don't have to CP any charge rolls
3, [20] Change all the weapons on the Wraithknight to be Heavy Wraithcannons
4, [50] As per 3 but keep the Starcannons as well

Options 1&2 or 1&3 as combinations seem most appealing.

Well, I'd take Wraithguard with D-scythes instead of Wraithblades.
Wraithlords are meh since they have too less damage output and are too slow.

If you want to play a wraithknight I would go with 2 wraithcannons. Because he has no invul save you also need a farseer with fortune and guide (cause doom isnt so needed cause S16 wounds everything on 2).

Also the psytronome is bonkers with the WK, it doubles his attacks to 8, you make 24 hit rolls with his feet. Use supreme disdain stratagem and get that spiritseers mark on the target. So every 6 generates another ATTACK (=3 hit rolls with feet). So even without the rerolls you get 4 6s on average which makes 12 more attacks. Have fun!

The lords are not optimal and you dont have much psychic. And Eldar have very very strong powers. I would atleast get a farseer in. Maybe swap the 3 lords for a farseer and a hemlock wraithfighter!

I agree with the post above - the Hemlock is both thematic and highly effective and so represents another threat that will be in the enemy's business on Turn 1. Plus it's another psychic on the table. You might have to rework your formations a bit but since they're all 1-pointer's it shouldn't be too hard to manage.

Lithanial wrote:
I am unconvinced that investing those points in another Spiritseer would be worth it

If you're set on the Wraithlords and you can find another HQ somewhere, they can be put into their own Spearhead detachment for another CP.

edit oh, sorry, you seemed to have already caught that at the end of your post.

Thanks for the comments all, the Wraithlords are a good discussion point and I think I agree that they could use some optimisation; they are however necessary to the list for a couple of reasons:

1, Their speed keeps them with the Spiritseer so they are important bodyguards to prevent deep-strikers annihilating him after he catapults the Wraithguard 22" up field with a Matchless Agility & Quicken combination.
2, The toughness gives the list much needed durable wounds and target saturation in a nid-zilla style.

Dropping to just 2 Wraithlords seems acceptable as they can still body-guard the Spiritseer and act as a good second wave if/when the Wraithguard get bogged down in assault. Thinking their role through though, they probably should both be shooting varients to add some more range to the force.
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While i'm at it, probably worth a quick battle plan run through for you guys.

- Wave Serpents advance up 16" + ~3" advance. Turn 2, blades get out 3" in front, move 5" then charge, low ball 6" - Total = about 33" threat range, no CP spent
- Wraithguard advance under Matchless agility 11", Spiritseer avoid deny the witch bubbles and uses warlord trait to get a 5/6 success rate on quicken = 22" move, 12" guns, 34" threat range, 1CP spent
- Wraithknight advance 12" + ~3", then has the possibility to Fire & Fade another 7" forward = 22", keeping pace with the Wraithguard to get in place for a turn 2 charge.
- Ranged Wraithlord stays back to protect the Spiritseer, other two advance ready to support as Turn 2 / 3 quicken targets.

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In writing that out, I think you guys have correctly spotted an oversight on my part in that I'm not going to have a Spiritseer up-field to use Guided Wraithsight with on turn 2 and the assault Wraithlords are a bit clunky.

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So, definite changes needed are, drop to just 2 shooty Wraithlords (Any recommended loadouts? Probably more Starcannons), Get a second Spiritseer in the list and get him up-field with the Wraithblades by dropping to squads of 5 so he can fit in the transport (I could make the back-field quicken bot a Warlock but.... a Warlock warlord seems so wrong).

By my count, that frees up 154 points. Not enough for a Hemlock, but I definitely want to add another durable unit with those points since i've just taken out 16 high toughness wounds, and it would be good to get the D-scythes in if possible instead of Wraithcannons....

Thoughts?

I would drop all three Wraithlords and one Wraithblade and get 2 Hemlocks. Opponent's can really just ignore the Wraithlords as they just aren't overly threatening and go after your other stuff.

What are people's thoughts on Wraithseers?

Gut feel is they have good supporting fire with D-cannons, particularly with the re-roll from the Spirit Seers, and it would be easy to put 2 into the list to create a Supreme Command detachement for the extra CP.

The D-cannons would certainly make it more comfortable to load the Wraithguard up with D-Scythes too.

I played one during a 5 game tourney last weekend and it was really a weak link. Shooting rarely performed much and he would get crushed. Psychic powers were nearly useless, but I did not run other Wraith units. I did not make him my Warlord, so I could not use the Warlord trait to try and snipe with a D Cannon.

My 2 cents. The knight is a distractor and will die turn one. He saved your other units and his damage output is typically very low without the sword.

The lords can be great at opening up landraiders and busting tanks provided they reach their target. Always run with them so give them shuriken cannons so they can still shoot. The flamers are a must for small units and flyers.

The game winners in your list for shear survivability are your blades and gaurd.

Like others stated take 5 blades so you can put the spiritseer in the waveserpent with them. Spiritmark is vital to their preformance.

Your lords can take care of tanks so d scyths on the gaurd so they can deal with what comes out of the tank or other mob units.

Ive ran this list and it does not have enough hitpoints to win most games. It will almost always be tabled by turn 4 in matched play. Dropping the lords for other high bang for points units is our only option.

Dark reapers and hemlocks im told.