Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

When charging with a Rough Rider, do you get -

1 Lance Attack, 1 Chainsword Attack, and one horse attack.

Or

1 Lance Attack, one Horse attack or 2 Chainsword attacks, one horse attack?

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
When charging with a Rough Rider, do you get -

1 Lance Attack, 1 Chainsword Attack, and one horse attack.

Or

1 Lance Attack, one Horse attack or 2 Chainsword attacks, one horse attack?

Assuming it has only 1 chainsword, it would be EITHER:

One Chainsword Attack, One BONUS Chainsword Attack and One Horse Attack

OR

One Lance Attack, One BONUS Chainsword Attack and One Horse Attack.

However, a Sergeant has 2 attacks on his profile, so he could do EITHER:

Two Chainsword Attacks, One BONUS Chainsword Attack and One Horse Attack

OR

One Lance Attack, One Chainsword Attack, One BONUS Chainsword Attack and One Horse Attack

OR

Two Lance Attacks, One BONUS Chainsword Attack and One Horse Attack.

That's what I thought. Would you support it with some rulebook rules BCB style for the folks in the Guard thread whom thought it was otherwise? The arguement was that if you're allocating your one attack to use with a chainsword you can't use the lance, and if you're allocating your attack with the lance, you can't use the rules of the chainsword because you're not attacking with it.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
That's what I thought. Would you support it with some rulebook rules BCB style for the folks in the Guard thread whom thought it was otherwise? The arguement was that if you're allocating your one attack to use with a chainsword you can't use the lance, and if you're allocating your attack with the lance, you can't use the rules of the chainsword because you're not attacking with it.

Page 183 BRB, Section 5.4. Choose Melee Weapon wrote:If a model has more than one melee weapon, choose which it will use before rolling the dice. If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close combat attacks, it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish – declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled.

The bonus attack for the chainsword happens regardless of whether you use it or not.

Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.

Not "Fights with this weapon", just blanket "fights". It's no different to someone attacking with the basic CCW everyone has built in, or a power sword. The bonus attack is always triggered and always done by the chainsword. This is why having two chainswords grants two bonus attacks, while boneswords don't because of different wording.

I’ve read your argument, here is the problem:

“If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close combat attacks, it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish – declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled.”

The converse is also true-

if a model has more than one melee weapon but can only make one close combat attack it cannot split it its attacks between these weapons.

It is either / or, it cannot be both which is what is being implied to the chainsword. The chainsword extra attack only holds true for using the chainsword.

 davidgr33n wrote:

I’ve read your argument, here is the problem:

“If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close combat attacks, it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish – declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled.”

The converse is also true-

if a model has more than one melee weapon but can only make one close combat attack it cannot split it its attacks between these weapons.

It is either / or, it cannot be both which is what is being implied to the chainsword. The chainsword extra attack only holds true for using the chainsword.

Except that's not what the rule says, nor is it applicable. The converse doesn't become true unless it's explicitly stated. Rules are permissive, etc.

The bonus attack from the chainsword is unrelated to the basic attacks. If they still refuse to listen then you won't be able to convince them and just ignore them and refuse to play with them.

The chainsword allows you to make 1 extra attack with it when you fight. Nothing in the chainsword's rules require you to allocate any attacks to the chainsword to get that bonus, only that the bonus attack can only be with the chainsword. No BRB rules require you to allocate attacks to a particular weapon to gain its special rules (the weapon rules themselves do that in most cases, but not in the case of the chainsword).

You get 1 attack with the chainsword, and however many normal attacks you get with whichever weapon you want.

Since chainswords are a universal weapons, it means SMarines can get free chainsword attacks regardless of what other weapons they have.
The title of the thread should be “Chainswords get free attacks?” since that would apply to multiple factions and forces, not just Rough Riders.

Well, if you're going to make that argumentation, it should really be a thread about every weapon that has the same special rule as the chainsword does - choppas, brutal assault weapons, etc.

In all of these cases, the only requirement to getting the extra attack is that "the bearer fights"; nothing says that you have to allocate any of your attacks to the weapon itself in order to generate this bonus attack.

Don’t get me wrong, I run 3 squads of Rough Riders, I want every advantage I can get, I’m just interpreting the rules as I see them...

I am going by the universally recognized “if / then” rule...
BRB says-
If a model has more than one melee weapon [we do] and can make several close combat attacks [we don’t, we only have one close combat attack], [then] it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish....

If you decide to use the chainsword (or whatever similarly worded weapon you choose) as your attacking weapon then its rule of allowing an extra attack kick in.

 davidgr33n wrote:
Don’t get me wrong, I run 3 squads of Rough Riders, I want every advantage I can get, I’m just interpreting the rules as I see them...

I am going by the universally recognized “if / then” rule...
BRB says-
If a model has more than one melee weapon [we do] and can make several close combat attacks [we don’t, we only have one close combat attack], [then] it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish....
If you decide to use the chainsword (or whatever similarly worded weapon you choose) then its rule of allowing an extra attack apply.

You're utterly ignoring what the chainsword rule says. The chainsword doesn't care if you use it or not. It only cares if you fight, regardless of what weapon you use.

You're flat out wrong on this, sorry.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:
Don’t get me wrong, I run 3 squads of Rough Riders, I want every advantage I can get, I’m just interpreting the rules as I see them...

I am going by the universally recognized “if / then” rule...
BRB says-
If a model has more than one melee weapon [we do] and can make several close combat attacks [we don’t, we only have one close combat attack], [then] it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish....
If you decide to use the chainsword (or whatever similarly worded weapon you choose) then its rule of allowing an extra attack apply.

You're utterly ignoring what the chainsword rule says. The chainsword doesn't care if you use it or not. It only cares if you fight, regardless of what weapon you use.

You're flat out wrong on this, sorry.

If you’re right then I’ve been screwing myself out of a ton of attacks and RRs are undervalued. Since RRs also have Pistols could you not then attack once with the Lance, once with the chainsword, once with the steed, and once with the laspistol?

You don't fight with the pistol in the fight phase, but you can shoot with it in the shooting phase.

 davidgr33n wrote:
If you’re right then I’ve been screwing myself out of a ton of attacks and RRs are undervalued. Since RRs also have Pistols could you not then attack once with the Lance, once with the chainsword, once with the steed, and once with the laspistol?

You're suffering from edition lag. Pistols don't work in the fight phase. You can however shoot them in the shooting phase even if within 1" of an enemy.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:
If you’re right then I’ve been screwing myself out of a ton of attacks and RRs are undervalued. Since RRs also have Pistols could you not then attack once with the Lance, once with the chainsword, once with the steed, and once with the laspistol?

You're suffering from edition lag. Pistols don't work in the fight phase. You can however shoot them in the shooting phase even if within 1" of an enemy.

Yes I’m still thinking of Pistols being used in cc in the offhand.

By your reasoning, if my Vanguard Sgt has a Relic Blade and a pair of Lightning Claws (which he can do) he can use the Relic Blade in one hand, a Lightning claw on the other, and still get the benefit of the second lightning claw as well (the wording for the Lightning Claws is the same as for the chainsword, ie all the Sgt has to do is fight and he gets the benefit of both Claws).

If he could be armed that way, then yes.

That's not a legal selection, though. Vanguard sarge can take 2 items from the list. Relic Blade is 1, and each Lightning Claw is 1 item. 2 of claws is 2 items. So you can take 2 claws or 1 claw and 1 relic blade, but not 2 claws and a relic blade.

Illegal loadouts not withstanding, if a model had a relic blade and two lightning claws, then yes, they could make all their attacks with the relic blade and one bonus attack with the lightning claw. I am not sure what you're trying to suggest here?

Ok, you’ve made your points....

Like I said earlier in the thread, if this is the case then it’s to my benefit, I’m not the too proud to admit I may have been wrong.

Unless GW FAQs it this is the way I’ll play it....

Happy gaming fellow 40k’ers!

BaconCatBug wrote:Pistols don't work in the fight phase. You can however shoot them in the shooting phase even if within 1" of an enemy.

Can we? I'm under the impression that, even though you can shoot the pistol, you can't actually select a unit during the shooting phase if they're within 1" of the enemy.

 Infantryman wrote:

BaconCatBug wrote:Pistols don't work in the fight phase. You can however shoot them in the shooting phase even if within 1" of an enemy.

Can we? I'm under the impression that, even though you can shoot the pistol, you can't actually select a unit during the shooting phase if they're within 1" of the enemy.

Let's not go down that daft rabbit hole. You can. Let's not argue that nonsense again.

Agree with BCB's take on Chainswords above.

 Infantryman wrote:

BaconCatBug wrote:Pistols don't work in the fight phase. You can however shoot them in the shooting phase even if within 1" of an enemy.

Can we? I'm under the impression that, even though you can shoot the pistol, you can't actually select a unit during the shooting phase if they're within 1" of the enemy.

RaW pistols don't work, this is true. I didn't mention it because I get shouted at when I do, so I put it in my signature instead.

What's it called again, someone help me - Roundtug? Sphereyank?

So for clarification, I have a SM lieutenant (4 attacks in profile) with a thunder hammer And a chainsword. Can he make 5 attacks a turn using the thunder hammer profile?

 Kithail wrote:
So for clarification, I have a SM lieutenant (4 attacks in profile) with a thunder hammer And a chainsword. Can he make 5 attacks a turn using the thunder hammer profile?

No. Four thunder hammer and one bonus Chainsword attack.

 Kithail wrote:
So for clarification, I have a SM lieutenant (4 attacks in profile) with a thunder hammer And a chainsword. Can he make 5 attacks a turn using the thunder hammer profile?

No. He makes 4 with the thunder hammer and 1 with the chainsword. The bonus chainsword attack is made with the chainsword.

Thanks a lot. Modelling the plasma pistol instead

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Kithail wrote:
So for clarification, I have a SM lieutenant (4 attacks in profile) with a thunder hammer And a chainsword. Can he make 5 attacks a turn using the thunder hammer profile?

No. He makes 4 with the thunder hammer and 1 with the chainsword. The bonus chainsword attack is made with the chainsword.

Strictly speaking he has four attacks that he can choose to make with either the thunder hammer or chainsword profile and 1 bonus chainsword attack (while rare you might choose to use the chainsword profile for preference if there were stacked -to hit or were hitting a culexus.)

I am a bit confused.
I allway roll my attacks at once(Axe+Sword+Fist).
But that one Game the Guys told me i have to seperate my rolls, at first comes the axe, then the sword etc pp.
Then the oppenent took his models from the axekills off, an said, i have no models in 1" for my chainsword hits...

Do you make all your meele attacks at once, or have you to seperate the weapons?

In the shooting phase you have to seperate the weapons, right, and can get out of range?

Skullphoquer wrote:
I am a bit confused.
I allway roll my attacks at once(Axe+Sword+Fist).
But that one Game the Guys told me i have to seperate my rolls, at first comes the axe, then the sword etc pp.
Then the oppenent took his models from the axekills off, an said, i have no models in 1" for my chainsword hits...

Do you make all your meele attacks at once, or have you to seperate the weapons?

In the shooting phase you have to seperate the weapons, right, and can get out of range?

You have to roll them one at a time, but who you can hit is locked in before you make any attacks. You determine who you can hit in Step 5.3, then roll attacks in step 5.4. You can always hit whoever you were within 1" of at the start of step 5.3 regardless of casualties.

Point 5 in the Fight Phase rules tells you that attacks are worked out just like in the Shooting Phase, except using WS not BS. So it's the same as Shooting, is your answer.

Edit: and yes, just like Shooting you can't remove models to be "out of range" once a unit has started its attacks.