Switch Theme:

John Carter of Mars discussion  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

With the upcoming miniature game, it seems like now is the time to discuss the movie. We can discuss why we did or did not like the film, but it's probably more interesting to discuss why it failed.

My opinion is that it was not only not marketed well, but it also suffered from being an adaptation. I came into the movie only knowing what to expect because I was familiar with the novels, but my father had no idea what it was about or that there even were books. That's clearly a marketing failure. I wonder how many people would have been more interested in the film if Disney had found an angle with which to sell it. Tellingly, Disney also failed to sell Tomorrowland, Lone Ranger, and other big budget films. It was a bright, colorful space opera with some witty twists long before Guardians was on the drawing board, and there is clearly an audience for that kind of film.

The other problem, I think, was that the film was forgettable in many ways. My feeling at the time was that the film tried harder to squeeze in events from the books than to sell the audience on the characters, so that the film poorly conveyed which scenes should have affected the characters and why the characters should matter to me. But it has been years since I saw the film, and the memories lie sometimes.

What do you think?

   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

I loved that movie. I was sad when any sequels were squelched by poor numbers. I really actually enjoyed the style and pace. Though I'm not sure if they sold it now it would go any better. People don't want to branch out from star wars or marvel for space spectacle.

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
-






-

Same here - loved it too.

I feel that it was unfairly targeted by (X), for whatever reason...

   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

The framing story was weird and led to some false starts and endings. However the hat was a feature of the books too.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Loved it - good fun, lots of it true to the books, looked great.

I honestly don't know why people did not enjoy.

Ignoring critics also helps - alot of people I knew were put off by their usual nonsense.


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

I would have liked to see a second film. With the "origin story" out of the way, I think the characters and the adventure would have felt more natural.


I expected it to have the same life and cultural impact as Stargate. It was no Star Wars, but it had a lot of promise as a space opera setting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/16 19:40:58


   
Made in de
Shroomin Brain Boy





Berlin Germany

loved the movie, still watch it now and then...btw it is on netflix for those who want to watch it...

also...it had Lynn Collins...`nuff said...

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

..I think the male lead actor didn't have quite the charisma to carry the scenes on Mars.

He seemed much more comfortable in the scenes on Earth, but I felt he was overshadowed by.. well.. pretty much every other actor/actress in the film.


One appreciates I may well be in the minority here but I wasn't too impressed with the soundtrack either even though -- thanks wiki -- this was apparently praised.

We often play soundtracks when we roleplay but not this one really.

..IT's a shame as the basic premise and much of the visualisation was first class.

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





I'd never heard of the movie or the source material. I saw it on the in-flight entertainment system flying home from the USA...and I LOVED IT. Perhaps its not a particularly well written film, but it was a very fun space opera.

I still haven't seen the source material.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/16 20:44:43


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 reds8n wrote:
I think the male lead actor didn't have quite the charisma to carry the scenes on Mars.
Agreed, although I think this was not just a problem with Taylor Kitsch but also Lynn Collins: two rather forgettable leads who don't exactly have sparkling chemistry, either.

By the end of the picture, the action visually devolves to "red versus blue." Production design was spot-on for the character-driven portions but the wider angle conflicts were hard to follow/care about.

Overall, I really like this picture. It's easy to imagine future generations wondering how this movie failed - or maybe not even remembering that it failed because it becomes one of those cult classics that people just assume must have done well (e.g., Blade Runner).

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Wait, there were scenes set on Earth?
And a framing story?
And a hat?

I think the film was just completely forgettable. I saw it not that many years ago and all I can vaguely recall about it is some 4 armed blue skinned aliens, basically a plot that was roughly similar to, "free Princess Leia from marrying Jabba the Hutt on his sail barge or something" and that's about it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/16 21:54:36


 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

The hat was a typo.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Compel wrote:
Wait, there were scenes set on Earth?
And a framing story?
And a hat?

I think the film was just completely forgettable. I saw it not that many years ago and all I can vaguely recall about it is some 4 armed blue skinned aliens, basically a plot that was roughly similar to, "free Princess Leia from marrying Jabba the Hutt on his sail barge or something" and that's about it.


I do think that was a problem - although it was very much based on a old book quite a few people saw it as nothing more than a new version of other films - same way as some people did not understand Lord of the Rings was based on a old book. A freind of mine was saying how children in her class were shocked that Jurassic Park was even based on a book.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

Yeah, you can find similarities to star wars in pretty much all space opera because he stole shamelessly from existing material and it's still fantasy which has also been done a million times. That said it's OG space opera and it's still one of my favorite movies to put on. Where I can't really watch stargate anymore (mostly because the show became my stargate and not the movie) and where the only starwars I can currently watch over and over is TFA it's nice to have another space opera movie out there that's just fun.

Haven't seen Valerian yet but if it's pretty enough it'll probably get added.

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'd never heard of the movie or the source material. I saw it on the in-flight entertainment system flying home from the USA...and I LOVED IT. Perhaps its not a particularly well written film, but it was a very fun space opera.

I still haven't seen the source material.


Because the copyright has expired, the books are available for free online at Project Gutenberg and other places, and you can likely find some cheap paperback editions online.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I did read all the books well before seeing the movie... and I was horribly disappointed.

Yes, I realize changes had to be made for the modern audience. For one thing, the woman characters needed to be re-written as something other than helpless female victims.

No, my big issue was John Carter himself. John Carter was never the reluctant hero depicted in the movie. The whole point of the character was that he would always fight for what he believed in, period. Wasting away in a shack in the middle of nowhere was so out of character it pretty much wrecks the whole thing for me. Having him turn away from a woman in danger...done. It's not John Carter; stop trying to make it him. Change the names, set it somewhere other than Mars. You've completely re-written everything INCLUDING the nature of the main character so this is NOT "John Carter of Mars".

To be frank it reminds me a lot of that awful movie "First Knight" (Sean Connery as King Arthur, Richard Gere as Lancelot, I forget the female lead). Theoretically set in Arthurian legend, it made Lancelot a thief, no one wore actual armor, and at the end Arthur gave his blessing to Guenivere and Lancelot's relationship.

The less said about the medieval 'Ninja Warrior' course the better.

That's where this movie sits in my opinion. Had they changed all the names, I would probably have liked it. Reminiscent of JCM, sure, but it's own thing. Different plot, different characters, different setting. Tying it to JCM creates certain expectations... and they threw each and every one of those expectations into the trash can when they delivered this movie.

And yes, the ad campaign was awful. Completely failed to generate any excitement in me even when I realized what the movie was supposed to be about.

Which leads me to wonder if Disney realized what a mess they had made of it, and even though they couldn't quite quietly drop the project they decided to spare themselves as much embarrassment as possible by low-keying the release.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/17 02:03:08


CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

The movie wasn't true enough to the books, what with the total lack of rampant nudity, John didn't talk enough about Negroes, or disparage Dejah Thoris' actions as being not her fault because she's "just a woman'", lol.

Man, those books felt really odd to read in this day and age.

Read "In the Courts of the Crimson Kings" by S.M. Stirling. Its like a modernized Martian Chronicles meets the Expanse (and is part two of a series that has a book about dinos on Venus, too, if you are a fan of ERB's other books.)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/17 02:12:18




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 AegisGrimm wrote:
The movie wasn't true enough to the books, what with the total lack of rampant nudity, John didn't talk enough about Negroes, or disparage Dejah Thoris' actions as being not her fault because she's "just a woman'", lol.

Man, those books felt really odd to read in this day and age.

Read "In the Courts of the Crimson Kings" by S.M. Stirling. Its like a modernized Martian Chronicles meets the Expanse (and is part two of a series that has a book about dinos on Venus, too, if you are a fan of ERB's other books.)


That description sounds very 2018 to me. I bet there's a Star Wars fan-edit to match it.


Thanks for the tip on the S.M. stirring book! Sounds fun.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 AegisGrimm wrote:
The movie wasn't true enough to the books, what with the total lack of rampant nudity, John didn't talk enough about Negroes, or disparage Dejah Thoris' actions as being not her fault because she's "just a woman'", lol.




I did say I realized large portions of it would have to be rewritten for the modern audience. Obviously those parts would have to go.

Don't put words in my mouth that were never there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/17 04:08:23


CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

I loved the John Carter movie! That may be partly because I've never read the books though, so I had no expectations other than a fun adventure story. Probably for the same reason, I enjoyed the Warcraft movie (never having played the games unless you somehow count Hearthstone). In both cases, I just ate my popcorn and enjoyed the ride. I go to movies to be entertained, and I certainly was.

Plus, as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, Lynn Collins was very easy on the eyes...

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





A friend of mine complained about her.

Deja Thoris is always described in terms of 'uncomparable beauty'. And for my friend, Lynn Collins just wasn't it. (Frankly, she's not it for me, either. More on that in a moment.)

I told him "Sure, but you need to bear in mind that what you or I find 'uncomparable beauty' isn't necessarily what others find to be 'uncomparable beauty'. Beauty is relative and taste is highly subjective. For every person like us who perfer curvier women, there is another guy out there who prefers a more slender lady, and Collins will appeal to them. After all, even we can't say she's ugly, after all."

No matter who they put in the role of Deja Thoris, someone would be disappointed with the choice because she didn't measure up to their individual measure of 'uncomparable beauty.' I'm just glad she wasn't a helpless victim, practically just a MacGuffin, as she was in the books.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/17 05:17:26


CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






 Vulcan wrote:
A friend of mine complained about her.

Deja Thoris is always described in terms of 'uncomparable beauty'. And for my friend, Lynn Collins just wasn't it. (Frankly, she's not it for me, either. More on that in a moment.)


Modern standards more than personal tastes. We probably wouldn't consider Helen of Troy to be 'a face that launched a thousand ships' either. A century ago they didn't have plastic surgery, modern beauty products, professional make-up artists or personal fitness trainers. Now imagine you came across someone that looked that good without all of the above, that's what the novel is talking about.

It's really hard for a modern audience to relate to, because we've gotten really, really good at making people look super gorgeous.


   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






I saw the film knowing about the stories, but never having read them. I quite enjoyed it, although it wasn't the best film in the world. A little heavy on exposition, and I'm not entirely sure the plot made sense, but it was enjoyable enough.

One problem is that they felt paradoxically derivative; watching the film it felt like this had all been done hundreds of times before, and it had - but in films and books inspired by the original John Carter stories. (something not restricted to this film - as well as Lord of the Rings, I overheard someone in a showing of Troy complain that the whole thing with the wooden horse is so unoriginal).

I read the first three novels later - and on balance, I preferred the film. Apart from being products of the 1910s, with all the unfortunate implications that brings, they seemed to suffer from deux ex machina plots.
   
Made in gb
Soul Token




West Yorkshire, England

 Alpharius wrote:
Same here - loved it too.

I feel that it was unfairly targeted by (X), for whatever reason...


The version I heard was that the marketing bots said that putting "Princess" in the title would mean boys didn't see it, and another movie with "Mars" in the title had flopped recently (so we can't have that!), so it just ended up being named after some guy named John Carter who a lot of people wouldn't know about.

Another fan here--it feels very much in the spirit of 80's fantasy movies, with a better budget.

"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich." 
   
Made in gb
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
...I overheard someone in a showing of Troy complain that the whole thing with the wooden horse is so unoriginal).


That makes my brain ache, I sincerely hope they were being sarcastic. It's one thing audiences not being familiar with a seminal work of fiction from what have historically been a set of fairly niche genres, but to be that oblivious of actual history in that context is mind boggling.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Ellicott City, MD

My wife and I both enjoyed it a lot and were both sad about the job Disney did advertising it and angry with them as well.

Also as Flash Gordon fans both of us agreed that Disney missed an opportunity to use Queen songs for the entire sound track.

Vonjankmon
Death Korp of Krieg
Dark Angels 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





It's a passable movie but wasn't marketted that well, also suffer from the same thing as Valerian in that the source material had already been heavily mined by prior sci-fi movies so to folks with no background knowledge they come off as derivatives of existing movies

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






 Elemental wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
Same here - loved it too.

I feel that it was unfairly targeted by (X), for whatever reason...


The version I heard was that the marketing bots said that putting "Princess" in the title would mean boys didn't see it, and another movie with "Mars" in the title had flopped recently (so we can't have that!), so it just ended up being named after some guy named John Carter who a lot of people wouldn't know about.


He's the good-looking one out of ER, isn't he? The one that isn't George Clooney.

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I enjoyed it well enough. I wouldn't rank in my top 50 like, but I don't get the disdain it's held in.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I enjoyed the books a long time ago, but 'our heroic lead' just didn't have the acting chops to portray John Carter

(and was given some pretty ropey writing for him too as Vulcan has pointed out)

it was ok movie but I remembered very little about it a few days after I saw it which is not what you want from an action movie where even if you forget the plot you should remember the action scenes

 
   
 
Forum Index » Geek Media
Go to: