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Regular Dakkanaut




Does a Tau model equipped with early warning override get to shoot at a GK unit that moves within 12 inches with Gate of Infinity? My inclination is no, as they are not being "set up" or arriving mid battle. What are your thoughts.
   
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Norn Queen






Riggs wrote:
Does a Tau model equipped with early warning override get to shoot at a GK unit that moves within 12 inches with Gate of Infinity? My inclination is no, as they are not being "set up" or arriving mid battle. What are your thoughts.
Gate of Infinity LITERALLY says "set it up".
Page 101 Codex: Grey Knights wrote:Remove that unit from the battlefield and immediately set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" from any enemy models.
So yes, an EWO works against models that use Gate of Infinity. They are set up mid battle, GoI says to "remove that unit from the battlefield", and they then arrive on the battlefield, so the EWO works.

But, RaW you can argue that the use of "i.e." means it only works when something literally Teleports to the battlefield (ala Terminator Teleport) and nothing else.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/01/20 18:50:36


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Regular Dakkanaut




if it says set it up in the power, then it counts as a set up. Any ability that targets units setting up (Like EWO) works just fine with these powers/abilities
   
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Executing Exarch




It specifies setting up on the board AND coming from reserves. Therefore it doesn't work on units using GOI since the unit is not coming in from reserves.
   
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Norn Queen






Leo_the_Rat wrote:
It specifies setting up on the board AND coming from reserves. Therefore it doesn't work on units using GOI since the unit is not coming in from reserves.
No, it doesn't. It says
Page 137 Index: Xenos 2 wrote:If an enemy unit is set up within 12" of a model equipped with an early warning override as the result of an ability that allows them to arrive mid-battle (i.e. teleporting to the battlefield), the model may immediately shoot at that unit as if it were your Shooting phase.
GoI removes the unit from the battlefield, and then arrive again, thus they are arriving mid battle.

Nowhere does the rule mention reserves of any kind.

But like I said, the use of i.e. means it only works RaW on ONE SPECIFIC type of arrival anyway. Same with one of the Wych drugs.

04/Nov/2018 Update: Still valid for the Tau Codex:
If any enemy units are set up within 12" of a model from your army equipped with an early warning override as the result of an ability that allows them to arrive mid-battle (i.e. teleporting to the battlefield), then at the end of that phase the model may immediately shoot at one of those units as if it were your Shooting phase, but you must subtract 1 from hit rolls when resolving these shots.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/04 04:55:47


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Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
It specifies setting up on the board AND coming from reserves. Therefore it doesn't work on units using GOI since the unit is not coming in from reserves.
No, it doesn't. It says
Page 137 Index: Xenos 2 wrote:If an enemy unit is set up within 12" of a model equipped with an early warning override as the result of an ability that allows them to arrive mid-battle (i.e. teleporting to the battlefield), the model may immediately shoot at that unit as if it were your Shooting phase.
GoI removes the unit from the battlefield, and then arrive again, thus they are arriving mid battle.

Nowhere does the rule mention reserves of any kind.

But like I said, the use of i.e. means it only works RaW on ONE SPECIFIC type of arrival anyway. Same with one of the Wych drugs.


How many threads will people keep claiming this i.e. thing in?

Yes, GW should have used e.g. instead of i.e. - that's obvious.
No, that doesn't mean that RAW this rule only works against teleporting Terminators.

That's just a silly thing to claim, and indeed the Tenets of YMDC ably cover GW's weird English and say "don't make threads/arguments about it". It's making a problem where none exists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/21 18:47:24


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Gotta love BCB declaring raw over an abbreviation case that is misused by 95% of English speaking adults.

   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block




Man, if only GW just created some kind of...Universal Rule...that made it super easy to know whether or not Early Warning Override meant specifically those arriving via reinforcements or not.

Maybe...we could call it...Deep strike.

And rewrite Early Warning Override to say 'When an enemy unit within 12" of the model equipped with the Early Warning Override device (Deep Strikes/arrives via Deep Strike)..."

Then we wouldn't have this issue at all.
   
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Major General





Florence, KY

Except every 'universal' rule comes with a hundred or more exceptions, making those so called 'universal' rules meaningless.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Units on the table have already arrived to the battle.

GoI takes an unit that is on the table (already arrived) and allows it to setup somewhere else on the table.

The unit has not arrived mid battle from the "set it up" that GoI does.

RAW EWO cannot target models using GoI

GoI does not include any language that indicates the unit is arriving mid battle, arriving again, or counts as arriving. If it did, or if EWO only specified any time an unit is setup with X distance do Y, then EWO would work.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/21 21:07:18


 
   
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Norn Queen






blaktoof wrote:
GoI does not include any language that indicates the unit is arriving mid battle
"Remove that unit from the battlefield" is pretty clear.

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Longtime Dakkanaut





its pretty clear you pick the models up and put them down "set it up" somewhere else, there is no clear language that it is arriving from not being at the battle.

the unit was clearly on the battlefield before- arrived.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/21 21:12:56


 
   
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Norn Queen






blaktoof wrote:
its pretty clear you pick the models up and put them down "set it up" somewhere else, there is no clear language that it is arriving from not being at the battle.

the unit was clearly on the battlefield before- arrived.
It was removed from the battlefield. By definition they must then arrive mid battle.

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Longtime Dakkanaut





 BaconCatBug wrote:
blaktoof wrote:
its pretty clear you pick the models up and put them down "set it up" somewhere else, there is no clear language that it is arriving from not being at the battle.

the unit was clearly on the battlefield before- arrived.
It was removed from the battlefield. By definition they must then arrive mid battle.


Can you quote where that definition comes from in the rules?

or wherein the rules for GoI it references arriving, or counts as arriving, or the unit arrives to the battlefield again set it up... anything with the word arrive or this definition of being removed and set up again= arriving?

I understand the logic behind what you are saying, but there aren't any rule supporting it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/21 21:16:31


 
   
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Norn Queen






blaktoof wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
blaktoof wrote:
its pretty clear you pick the models up and put them down "set it up" somewhere else, there is no clear language that it is arriving from not being at the battle.

the unit was clearly on the battlefield before- arrived.
It was removed from the battlefield. By definition they must then arrive mid battle.


Can you quote where that definition comes from in the rules?

or wherein the rules for GoI it references arriving, or counts as arriving, or the unit arrives to the battlefield again set it up... anything with the word arrive or this definition of being removed and set up again= arriving?

I understand the logic behind what you are saying, but there aren't any rule supporting it.
It's an implicit part of the rules inherited from the English Language, much like how "rolling a dice" is implicit or how your D6's have to be numbered 1-6 and fair.

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Longtime Dakkanaut





I will now commit the nerd sin of bringing up past editions, because reasons:

In every previous edition where an ability allowed an unit to be removed from play and arrive essentially immediately, there was no change of phase/turn/different unit does something before the unit is placed on the table somewhere after being removed, it was never considered reserves (which is now reinforcements) and never counted as arriving again.

examples given:
7th edition gate of infinity, necron veil of darkness

Both of these factions/units had special rules that triggered when the units arrive from reserve, both of these units when using GoI/VoD were ruled to not trigger the abilities from "arriving" when GoI/VoDing.

There is no language in this edition that would indicate that it is.

I contend that this edition with no language supporting the unit is arriving a further time past it already having arrived, much like previous editions- the unit being placed by GoI/VoD is being set up, but is not being set up from reinforcements as it was already arrived on the table, and is not arriving and being set up.
   
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This thread is answered back in october 2017 from GW it self
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Index_Xenos_2_ENG.pdf
quote relevant part: Q: Can models with an early warning override Support System
use it to shoot at units that use psychic powers such as Gate of
Infinity or Da Jump to set up within 12"?
A: Yes.

please check official resources first
   
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Norn Queen







I really wish there was a better way to comb though the mountains of Errata and FAQ for things like this. I looked and I missed this. I'm seriously considering making a master document that has keywords and such for each question. It's especially annoying when questions for things that should be universal (e.g. Stratagems from army A on models from army B) are found in faction specific FAQs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/22 14:39:56


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Longtime Dakkanaut





 pumaman1 wrote:
This thread is answered back in october 2017 from GW it self
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Index_Xenos_2_ENG.pdf
quote relevant part: Q: Can models with an early warning override Support System
use it to shoot at units that use psychic powers such as Gate of
Infinity or Da Jump to set up within 12"?
A: Yes.

please check official resources first


Good advice, and I was incorrect.

Nice Jeff Goldblum meme
   
 
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