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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



New Mexico, USA

Hey all,

I love the wargaming hobby and have spent a long time collecting and painting my army, as I'm sure many of you have. I always hated bringing my army down to the FLGS and finding out they had ugly, mismatched, broken, unpainted terrain for me to play on. Even the stores that had nice terrain never seemed to get anything new. I never had the chance to play on a necron tomb world, a tau colony world, or an ork scrap heap.

Last month, I launched a new business and decided to try to help fix that problem. Terrain Subscription Services allows gaming stores and clubs to subscribe for $65-85 per month (depending on shipping costs) and receive a new set of fully painted, thematic terrain for Warhammer 40k every two months (while returning the previous set, of course).

This is a way for a group of stores or clubs all over the country to "crowdfund" a library of great terrain for all of us to share. Instead of spending $1000+ on buying, assembling, and painting new terrain all of the time, the subscription gets you access to great terrain that is always new, keeping the game tactically interesting and beautiful at the same time.

I just started, as I said, and am adding new boards to the collection as I get new customers. Below is a table I'm calling "Sector Closed". It shows an Imperial world that has suffered from some sort of xenos invasion, been shelled into oblivion, and abandoned. This table is currently available for whomever subscribes next. I'll keep updating this thread with new tables as they are completed.

If you guys know of any stores that may be interested in subscribing (in the USA only, unfortunately), I would really appreciate it if you could let me know. Also, if there are ideas for boards that you would like to see, please post in this thread.

My email address is joe@terrainsubs.com and the website is https://www.terrainsubs.com/

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/02/12 22:09:59


 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Interesting business niche. Good luck to you.

Expect damage though.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



New Mexico, USA

 Orlanth wrote:
Interesting business niche. Good luck to you.

Expect damage though.


Thanks for the good wishes. Repairing damage is part of what you pay for with the service. I know store owners don't really have the time (or usually the inclination) to repair damage to their terrain very often. All normal wear and tear is included in the subscription price.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

Interesting idea. So it's roughly $120-170 for a table's worth of terrain? That example table looks pretty cool. Are you using pre-manufactured kits to make these, or doing everything yourself in-house?
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



New Mexico, USA

 Mr. Grey wrote:
Interesting idea. So it's roughly $120-170 for a table's worth of terrain? That example table looks pretty cool. Are you using pre-manufactured kits to make these, or doing everything yourself in-house?


Just to be clear, the subscription is not to purchase the terrain. You are renting it and sending it back when the new table arrives every two months.

I use a combination of pre-manufactured kits and scratch built stuff. For example, in the table pictured above, most of the terrain is from Pegasus Hobbies Gothic kits but the chain link fences were made from scratch. I also made floors for the buildings, sandbags (using Hirst Arts molds), etc.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





If it wasnt renting id be interested. A subscription service to get 2-3 pieces of terrain a month is pretty cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If it wasnt renting id be interested. A subscription service to get 2-3 pieces of terrain a month is pretty cool.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/22 17:58:36


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

terrainsubs wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
Interesting idea. So it's roughly $120-170 for a table's worth of terrain? That example table looks pretty cool. Are you using pre-manufactured kits to make these, or doing everything yourself in-house?


Just to be clear, the subscription is not to purchase the terrain. You are renting it and sending it back when the new table arrives every two months.

I use a combination of pre-manufactured kits and scratch built stuff. For example, in the table pictured above, most of the terrain is from Pegasus Hobbies Gothic kits but the chain link fences were made from scratch. I also made floors for the buildings, sandbags (using Hirst Arts molds), etc.



..Oh. I somehow missed the "while returning the previous set" bit in your original description.

Edit to add: So it's an interesting idea like I said, but how are you dealing with the renter having to package and ship everything back to you? Is that accounted for in the rental price, or is that solely the responsibility of the renter? Because I can see shipping costs getting expensive for an entire table's worth of terrain, not necessarily due to weight but due to bulk.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/22 18:51:04


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



New Mexico, USA

SweetLou wrote:
If it wasnt renting id be interested. A subscription service to get 2-3 pieces of terrain a month is pretty cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If it wasnt renting id be interested. A subscription service to get 2-3 pieces of terrain a month is pretty cool.


To me, the good thing about renting is that you get a large variety at a much lower cost than purchasing the same amount of terrain. The materials alone for a full, densely covered 6"x4" gaming board are at least $400 including the mat, buildings, paint, etc. If you were to get a commission painter to assemble and paint everything, it would be closer to $1000. If you spend that money, sure you have that table forever but, on the downside, you have that table FOREVER. For the same amount of money, you could subscribe to my service for over a year and get 8 brand new tables rotating through your store or club, generating excitement and interest from customers and keeping things fresh.

I do understand wanting to own the terrain, but even the most beautiful table gets old to play on after a while.
   
Made in ca
Phanobi






Canada,Prince Edward Island

You certainly know how to make some beautiful terrain! The little touches such as posters and fence sections are great.

Before doing anything I would test the terrain's ability to be shipped around the States, I imagine it would be highly expensive, especially if you are molding stuff out of plaster (which I think Hirst Arts stuff is usually done in). While I am in no way familiar with the US postal service prices, at a guess I would say that set you posted would cost maybe $200 to send just given its size.

Unless the packaging was specifically designed for each terrain piece the chances of it being a pile of rubble, albeit well painted rubble, could be very high.


   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



New Mexico, USA

 Mr. Grey wrote:


..Oh. I somehow missed the "while returning the previous set" bit in your original description.

Edit to add: So it's an interesting idea like I said, but how are you dealing with the renter having to package and ship everything back to you? Is that accounted for in the rental price, or is that solely the responsibility of the renter? Because I can see shipping costs getting expensive for an entire table's worth of terrain, not necessarily due to weight but due to bulk.


I actually added that to the OP after your comment, I'm sorry that wasn't clear before.

The cost of packaging and shipping both ways is all included in the price. I figured out how to get a box that is large enough for a full table of terrain made up that still meets USPS requirements to be shipped Priority Mail at a reasonable price. The way it works is that each time a new set of terrain is sent, it includes a prepaid shipping label for the return of the previous set of terrain. The customer then removes the new terrain from the box and puts the previous table into it for return shipment. This way the you don't have to keep a rather large box around between shipments. Does that make sense?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Commander Cain wrote:
You certainly know how to make some beautiful terrain! The little touches such as posters and fence sections are great.

Before doing anything I would test the terrain's ability to be shipped around the States, I imagine it would be highly expensive, especially if you are molding stuff out of plaster (which I think Hirst Arts stuff is usually done in). While I am in no way familiar with the US postal service prices, at a guess I would say that set you posted would cost maybe $200 to send just given its size.

Unless the packaging was specifically designed for each terrain piece the chances of it being a pile of rubble, albeit well painted rubble, could be very high.



Thank you for the compliment! I love adding all the little details to a board that really help tell a story.

Shipping was one of my primary concerns as well when I first got the idea, but I have figured out how to keep the shipping costs down, partially by making my own shipping containers that are both light and more durable than cardboard. The subscription price includes shipping both ways. I also built the terrain to be as sturdy as possible. For example, I used resin for the Hirst Arts molded components instead of plaster for that very reason.

I know some damage in transit is inevitable and that is included in normal wear and tear, so no charge to my customers for that!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/22 19:04:19


 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

I can see a market for this.

FLGS dont necessarily have a lot of room, and want to spice things up. It costs time and money to produce more items. This way you get a circulation of terrain that is refreshed and the store doesnt have to do any donkey work.

However I was talking to the boss of a Uk games store company about hosting RPG miniatures and terrain. Miniatures are Ok funnily enough. You can have shop RPG minis or private collections on loan, and people sign them out and look after them. Its a community after all. However terrain for some reason gets trashed very easy. People understand to be careful with someone elses miniatures, but third party terrain very rarely stays intact.

I am curious as to how this venture goes, its a new niche market and thus potentially a good opportunity, but transport of items could be problematic, and damage could be an issue.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Its a cool idea, but I honestly don't see it working.

The problem is time spent on repairs for damages, and this wont work for any store owners. On the low end, a store would spend 780 a year for a single table of bi monthly rotating terrain.

I don't know the average store table amount, but lets say an average one has 6 tables. 4680 a year to supply them. FLGS do not make much money, despite the crazy costs us consumers spend on it.

Ours for example needed terrain for a GT for 40k. The store got the terrain at their cost (45%) off and has the tourney organizers build and paint it up. Now, for a cheap expense for the store owner, they have a solid 8-10 tables of city fight terrain

Even with a player wanting new stuff for their personal table at their house, they could easily spend 300$ to have a full table. Then you save the terrain, and later buy more that's different. Thus being cheaper then your service and builds up their own personal collection over time.

Cool idea, but no actual market.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/22 19:11:31


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



New Mexico, USA

 Orlanth wrote:
I can see a market for this.

FLGS dont necessarily have a lot of room, and want to spice things up. It costs time and money to produce more items. This way you get a circulation of terrain that is refreshed and the store doesnt have to do any donkey work.

However I was talking to the boss of a Uk games store company about hosting RPG miniatures and terrain. Miniatures are Ok funnily enough. You can have shop RPG minis or private collections on loan, and people sign them out and look after them. Its a community after all. However terrain for some reason gets trashed very easy. People understand to be careful with someone elses miniatures, but third party terrain very rarely stays intact.

I am curious as to how this venture goes, its a new niche market and thus potentially a good opportunity, but transport of items could be problematic, and damage could be an issue.


Thanks for the support! I had the same thoughts and so far, my customers have been extremely happy with the terrain. It is really generating a lot of interest in the hobby and several new people are picking up 40k as a direct result of getting excited at the thought of playing on these boards. I'm curious as to how it goes as well.

I see maintenance of the boards as a big part of what customers are paying for with the subscription. I think a lot of store terrain ends up looking so beat up simply because it goes years with no maintenance at all. Store owners are busy and I don't think I've ever seen one take the time to touch up their terrain regularly. I don't blame them, after all they already paid for it, store it, and let people use it for free.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
str00dles1 wrote:
Its a cool idea, but I honestly don't see it working.

The problem is time spent on repairs for damages, and this wont work for any store owners. On the low end, a store would spend 780 a year for a single table of bi monthly rotating terrain.

I don't know the average store table amount, but lets say an average one has 6 tables. 4680 a year to supply them. FLGS do not make much money, despite the crazy costs us consumers spend on it.

Ours for example needed terrain for a GT for 40k. The store got the terrain at their cost (45%) off and has the tourney organizers build and paint it up. Now, for a cheap expense for the store owner, they have a solid 8-10 tables of city fight terrain

Even with a player wanting new stuff for their personal table at their house, they could easily spend 300$ to have a full table. Then you save the terrain, and later buy more that's different. Thus being cheaper then your service and builds up their own personal collection over time.

Cool idea, but no actual market.


I don't see a store subscribing to this for every table in their store (if they have multiples, many only have one). Rather, it would be a showpiece to generate interest for new players, be the top table at a tournament, etc. I'm not making the typical tournament quality tables with a green felt mat and spray painted MDF buildings. That kind of terrain is fine for volume but it doesn't get anyone really excited to play a game on it (imo). I already have customers for whom this service is working extremely well but I see your points.

You also can't build a table like this for $300, trust me. You can make a table for $300 but it won't be this level of quality. But you are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/22 19:18:59


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps







Good luck to you - If I were a whole lot wealthier, played more, and had much less of my own terrain, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Fortunately for you, there seem to be a fair number of people in that category from what I've seen, so it might work for you if you get the word out widely enough!
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






I find this to be very interesting and I think there's something here, but it needs tweaking - all startups need some tweaking.

I recommend that you adopt a Netflix DVD like subscription plan. Where rather than a bimonthly, forced, rotation you allow them to hold onto the terrain pack for as long as they would like (paying the monthly fee of course) and only when they send it back (using the original box) do you ship out a new terrain pack. This will be much more manageable for you. This can be setup as 1-pack, 2-packs or 3-packs at a time depending on the monthly subscription fee.

Once you have built up inventory I recommend you try expanding into tournaments. I think this could be a great service for communities that would like to host events, but don't have the terrain resources to do so.

Before you get too far down the rabbit hole; you're going to need to establish some well thought out T&C's as well as setting up CC processing with scheduled, automatically recurring charges.

Edit:
I think it would be helpful for you to look at how trade show services conduct business (e.g. Freeman) - renting furniture, AV equipment, literature stands, etc. to companies travelling to a trade shows.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/22 23:07:01


 
   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





Personally I think it's a great idea, that could in fact be self-supported financially on FLGS level. If, as in an example above, given FLGS has 6 tables, 5 of which are "standard", then it should be totally acceptable to charge players for reserving that single table on non-tournament days (same as you reserve snooker/pool table for example). It is just 5$ per player per 3hrs session to support such table cost in full by weekend players alone (I'm assuming two 3hrs sessions per day).

Or are US players THAT cheap?
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



New Mexico, USA

 kestral wrote:
Good luck to you - If I were a whole lot wealthier, played more, and had much less of my own terrain, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Fortunately for you, there seem to be a fair number of people in that category from what I've seen, so it might work for you if you get the word out widely enough!


Thank you for the good wishes. I really appreciate the positive feedback.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 oni wrote:
I find this to be very interesting and I think there's something here, but it needs tweaking - all startups need some tweaking.

I recommend that you adopt a Netflix DVD like subscription plan. Where rather than a bimonthly, forced, rotation you allow them to hold onto the terrain pack for as long as they would like (paying the monthly fee of course) and only when they send it back (using the original box) do you ship out a new terrain pack. This will be much more manageable for you. This can be setup as 1-pack, 2-packs or 3-packs at a time depending on the monthly subscription fee.

Once you have built up inventory I recommend you try expanding into tournaments. I think this could be a great service for communities that would like to host events, but don't have the terrain resources to do so.

Before you get too far down the rabbit hole; you're going to need to establish some well thought out T&C's as well as setting up CC processing with scheduled, automatically recurring charges.

Edit:
I think it would be helpful for you to look at how trade show services conduct business (e.g. Freeman) - renting furniture, AV equipment, literature stands, etc. to companies travelling to a trade shows.


I think that is a very good idea. I didn't go with that at first because I am hoping to be able to send the terrain from one subscriber to the next in the bimonthly rotation, but I think this model has a lot of merit. The other downside to this is that the store would be without any terrain during the 'swap', which can be bad for smaller stores that only have my terrain to work with. I'll ask my current customers which model they'd prefer.

I have thought about the tournament scene quite a bit and I do plan on doing that eventually. At this point, I simply don't want to hold on to 7 or 8 extra full boards that aren't out there bringing in any money. That is quite a bit of overhead. But I do think that is a market that I could easily expand into eventually. I know TOs have a hard time getting good quality terrain together for tournaments.

I have a fully legally vetted subscription contract already in place as well as automated credit card processing through Stripe (great minds think alike!). I thought about the rental car model but I think your idea is much closer to what I'm doing. I'll have to reach out to those companies and see if there are any ideas I can borrow from them. Thanks for the suggestion!

Thank you very much for the input though, I sincerely appreciate getting some outside input into the idea and business model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
nou wrote:
Personally I think it's a great idea, that could in fact be self-supported financially on FLGS level. If, as in an example above, given FLGS has 6 tables, 5 of which are "standard", then it should be totally acceptable to charge players for reserving that single table on non-tournament days (same as you reserve snooker/pool table for example). It is just 5$ per player per 3hrs session to support such table cost in full by weekend players alone (I'm assuming two 3hrs sessions per day).

Or are US players THAT cheap?


Thank you!

I, personally, think more FLGS in the US should charge a membership fee or something similar to support the cost of maintaining a nice place to play. I know of 4 stores near me that went out of business because people would play in the store and buy their gaming stuff online, which I think is a problem.

I see this service as a marketing tool for the FLGS more than anything else. It can give people a reason to stop by regularly and see the new terrain.

The first day I set it up in my first customer's store, I was constantly approached by people who had never played 40k or any wargame before. People were asking to set up learning games, etc. You just don't get that kind of response on a boring table.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/22 23:52:56


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

What happens when a subscribing store goes bankrupt and closes?

   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
What happens when a subscribing store goes bankrupt and closes?


Same risk as any other retail supplier, but with the clawback that items on loan are easy to identify and claim from those who handle a forclosure. Creditors will have no legal right to the hire companies terrain items.

Its a peperwork issue, and an unscheduled collection, and a loss of a customer, but its no actual liability, unlike creditors who supplied money for stock.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



New Mexico, USA

 Orlanth wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
What happens when a subscribing store goes bankrupt and closes?


Same risk as any other retail supplier, but with the clawback that items on loan are easy to identify and claim from those who handle a forclosure. Creditors will have no legal right to the hire companies terrain items.

Its a peperwork issue, and an unscheduled collection, and a loss of a customer, but its no actual liability, unlike creditors who supplied money for stock.


This is exactly correct and is spelled out plainly in the rental agreement. I simply get the terrain back and hope the retailer has more fortune in the future.
   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





terrainsubs wrote:

The first day I set it up in my first customer's store, I was constantly approached by people who had never played 40k or any wargame before. People were asking to set up learning games, etc. You just don't get that kind of response on a boring table.


That doesn't surprise me at all. My wife got interested in miniature gaming only when we went to a demo game of Wolsung, conducted on their showcase terrain set (examples of their terrain system can be found here: http://microartstudio.com/gallery/). She saw my 2nd ed Eldar collection prior to that, but miniature gaming scared her because all the work and involvement necessary. But when she actually experienced playing on fully painted diorama, she started considering this hobby and eventually got into 40K with me. One of the main reasons we don't go to FLGS anymore is that we have better terrain set at home than what our FLGS has to offer. Truth be told, if you were in Europe, we would probably rent a set from you once a year for a single period, just for the sake of variation.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

terrainsubs wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
What happens when a subscribing store goes bankrupt and closes?


Same risk as any other retail supplier, but with the clawback that items on loan are easy to identify and claim from those who handle a forclosure. Creditors will have no legal right to the hire companies terrain items.

Its a peperwork issue, and an unscheduled collection, and a loss of a customer, but its no actual liability, unlike creditors who supplied money for stock.


This is exactly correct and is spelled out plainly in the rental agreement. I simply get the terrain back and hope the retailer has more fortune in the future.


Really? Because I've seen a game store that went bankrupt and got evicted... Everything ended up on the street.

Everything got picked up by customers in the know, so you wouldn't be getting jack back. Being bankrupt, the store would be judgement proof, so good luck having that agreement enforced.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 01:16:27


   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



New Mexico, USA

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
terrainsubs wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
What happens when a subscribing store goes bankrupt and closes?


Same risk as any other retail supplier, but with the clawback that items on loan are easy to identify and claim from those who handle a forclosure. Creditors will have no legal right to the hire companies terrain items.

Its a peperwork issue, and an unscheduled collection, and a loss of a customer, but its no actual liability, unlike creditors who supplied money for stock.


This is exactly correct and is spelled out plainly in the rental agreement. I simply get the terrain back and hope the retailer has more fortune in the future.


Really? Because I've seen a game store that went bankrupt and got evicted... Everything ended up on the street.

Everything got picked up by customers in the know, so you wouldn't be getting jack back. Being bankrupt, the store would be judgement proof, so good luck having that agreement enforced.


There are risks in any business venture, I realize that. I think this particular instance of everything being thrown into the street would be pretty rare. I also have been selecting customers that I want to work with, not just every store that shows any interest. I have a good relationship with all of my customers and hope to keep it that way. I really can't see any of them willfully doing something like this with my stuff, but I suppose it is possible.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




nou wrote:
Personally I think it's a great idea, that could in fact be self-supported financially on FLGS level. If, as in an example above, given FLGS has 6 tables, 5 of which are "standard", then it should be totally acceptable to charge players for reserving that single table on non-tournament days (same as you reserve snooker/pool table for example). It is just 5$ per player per 3hrs session to support such table cost in full by weekend players alone (I'm assuming two 3hrs sessions per day).

Or are US players THAT cheap?


I wouldn’t call it cheap. But I, personally very against paying to play. I spend a crap ton on product monthly from the FLGS, should be able to play and hang out as long as I please. If a place has to charge me, they need to meet some high standards with their store
   
Made in pl
Wicked Warp Spider





str00dles1 wrote:
nou wrote:
Personally I think it's a great idea, that could in fact be self-supported financially on FLGS level. If, as in an example above, given FLGS has 6 tables, 5 of which are "standard", then it should be totally acceptable to charge players for reserving that single table on non-tournament days (same as you reserve snooker/pool table for example). It is just 5$ per player per 3hrs session to support such table cost in full by weekend players alone (I'm assuming two 3hrs sessions per day).

Or are US players THAT cheap?


I wouldn’t call it cheap. But I, personally very against paying to play. I spend a crap ton on product monthly from the FLGS, should be able to play and hang out as long as I please. If a place has to charge me, they need to meet some high standards with their store


Would it satisfy you if, for example, there was a system at your FLGS that for every X$ spent on products you get a voucher for one reservation at premium table for free? Because that is pretty much typical for many other ventures I know, that combine sales with services.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

nou wrote:

Would it satisfy you if, for example, there was a system at your FLGS that for every X$ spent on products you get a voucher for one reservation at premium table for free? Because that is pretty much typical for many other ventures I know, that combine sales with services.


One of the issues with the "pay to play" model in the US is that there are usually an abundance of game stores around; if one is charging to use their tables, gamers will simply play at another store that doesn't. I can see the point of a small fee to use a premium table, though - especially ones as nice as OP's. Use it as a showcase table and feature two fully painted armies playing one another, and you've got some great promo material for your store.
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Mr. Grey wrote:
nou wrote:

Would it satisfy you if, for example, there was a system at your FLGS that for every X$ spent on products you get a voucher for one reservation at premium table for free? Because that is pretty much typical for many other ventures I know, that combine sales with services.


One of the issues with the "pay to play" model in the US is that there are usually an abundance of game stores around; if one is charging to use their tables, gamers will simply play at another store that doesn't. I can see the point of a small fee to use a premium table, though - especially ones as nice as OP's. Use it as a showcase table and feature two fully painted armies playing one another, and you've got some great promo material for your store.

In Nou's example, all the dollars you pay to play are given back to you as store credit. So the store customers, who already spend money in the shop, would play for free, and would have no reason to move away.
It's only the people who don't buy anything from the shop who would have to start spending money there, or leave. Both options are good for the store owner.
I've heard of some FLGS that already do that.

Back on the main topic: Some terrain can be disassembled and flat-packed, which saves a ton on shipping (and results in less damage). Is it possible for you to provide shipping-friendly terrain that still looks great? If you're making the stuff yourself, maybe you can tune your pieces to be much easier to ship. Otherwise, it should be possible to design terrain pieces that can easily be stacked together. Like a small ruin that happens to be just small enough to be easily put inside a bigger piece for shipping (like russian dolls).
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




nou wrote:
str00dles1 wrote:
nou wrote:
Personally I think it's a great idea, that could in fact be self-supported financially on FLGS level. If, as in an example above, given FLGS has 6 tables, 5 of which are "standard", then it should be totally acceptable to charge players for reserving that single table on non-tournament days (same as you reserve snooker/pool table for example). It is just 5$ per player per 3hrs session to support such table cost in full by weekend players alone (I'm assuming two 3hrs sessions per day).

Or are US players THAT cheap?


I wouldn’t call it cheap. But I, personally very against paying to play. I spend a crap ton on product monthly from the FLGS, should be able to play and hang out as long as I please. If a place has to charge me, they need to meet some high standards with their store


Would it satisfy you if, for example, there was a system at your FLGS that for every X$ spent on products you get a voucher for one reservation at premium table for free? Because that is pretty much typical for many other ventures I know, that combine sales with services.


Our current store is flat 10% off everything so long as you use their "points card" which is free to sign up for. 1$=1 point. Every 250 points you get 5$ in credit. There's a few "hidden" ways to get bonus points you have to be in the know for. Which is dumb in itself, it should be advertised but I digress.

To me personally, I wouldn't care enough to spend $ to play on a "better then average" table. Not to critiques the OPs work, but its not enough for me to pay for. Now you give me a table like Forgeworld did for Burning of Prospero and I would pay for that.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 oni wrote:
I find this to be very interesting and I think there's something here, but it needs tweaking - all startups need some tweaking.

I recommend that you adopt a Netflix DVD like subscription plan. Where rather than a bimonthly, forced, rotation you allow them to hold onto the terrain pack for as long as they would like (paying the monthly fee of course) and only when they send it back (using the original box) do you ship out a new terrain pack. This will be much more manageable for you. This can be setup as 1-pack, 2-packs or 3-packs at a time depending on the monthly subscription fee.

Once you have built up inventory I recommend you try expanding into tournaments. I think this could be a great service for communities that would like to host events, but don't have the terrain resources to do so.

Before you get too far down the rabbit hole; you're going to need to establish some well thought out T&C's as well as setting up CC processing with scheduled, automatically recurring charges.

Edit:
I think it would be helpful for you to look at how trade show services conduct business (e.g. Freeman) - renting furniture, AV equipment, literature stands, etc. to companies travelling to a trade shows.


This is quality advice. Many gaming stores run on a shoe string budget. Forcing them to ultimately eat the repeat costs of sending the terrain back monthly whether the terrain is damaged or not and whether they want to change or not drains capital fast. In effect, you want to be their terrain outsourcer. Trying to tie them into inflexible tight monthly return windows is a bad idea. The businesses most likely to utilise your services are the newly established ones who would prefer to just pay a flat fee and get a few tables worth of terrain and not need to worry about preparation, maintenance, etcetc.

Make it so that at the end of every month they have a choice. They can pay your $75 fee to send the terrain back and get a new table, or a $25(?) fee to keep the terrain for another month. The extra fee covers the additional wear and tear on the terrain for when you do get it back; and if it's been a hard month sales wise, the shop can opt to just keep the table on for a lesser sum.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/23 13:54:59



 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



New Mexico, USA

fresus wrote:

Back on the main topic: Some terrain can be disassembled and flat-packed, which saves a ton on shipping (and results in less damage). Is it possible for you to provide shipping-friendly terrain that still looks great? If you're making the stuff yourself, maybe you can tune your pieces to be much easier to ship. Otherwise, it should be possible to design terrain pieces that can easily be stacked together. Like a small ruin that happens to be just small enough to be easily put inside a bigger piece for shipping (like russian dolls).


I thought about the flat pack model, but the terrain just looks so much worse this way. You can't add as much detail when you have to make it easy to take apart.

I did make some of this terrain nesting and stackable. You can see that some of the buildings have flat tops so they can be placed on top of each other in the box. It would've been easier to nest them if they weren't based, but I wanted everything to have a clear base to make it playable with 8th edition terrain rules.
   
 
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