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Made in au
Sacrifice to the Dark Gods



Queensland

Finding myself ignoring and having a good laugh at some of the limitations the developers put in place when it comes to the allies system, overall aos is a good system but they really went to far or possibly not far enough how you see it when it comes to how we can mix up our lists like for example

Free people and dwarf's (all 3 factions) can not ally with humans but can ally with Ironweld which is full of humans (free guild engineers)
Savage Orruks can not take basic goblins in their army, large tribes or migrating goblins and wolf riders are out but night goblins and their legions of underground beasts are in, sure thing gw
Ironjaws can have basic goblins but a goblin army can't have Ironjaws, love for someone to explain the logic in that.
Swifthawk agents and Scourage privateers can't work with each other but you guessed it they can work with gw's golden children the stormcasts.
all just Stormcasts and work with everything, i knew it when it i started looking at the restrictions.

anyone else ignoring allies? especially after the freedom given to us in Warhammer 40k and people have been unleashed to create the most themed list we can today while still having legal lists it's so strange for aos to have it's lists so tightly restricted.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/22 23:05:22


Get off my bloody lawn! 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






You do understand you can run any of those combinations you described as impossible, right? They just get bumped down to their grand alliance traits and relics.

The point of the allies rules is to allow you to take a small contingent of like-minded folks into your main force without downgrading your army to into its common grand alliance keyword.

You could always have an army consisting of treelords leading stormcast with steam tanks and you still can, but you can recognize that such a force is representing something other than the fresh orthodox behaviours that army began with.

   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






I don't have any problem with the allies system, nor have I ever heard of anyone who does. Ignoring it seems pointless, since that is what the grand alliances are for. And that's aside from how a number of the combinations you talked about make total sense. Goblins following Ironjawz but Ironjawz not being bossed around by goblins? Tell me how that DOESNT make sense...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/22 23:38:38


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




Yeah not seeing the problem with the allies system or what it represents here either. If you don't want to follow the restriction then bump down to the grand alliance rules.
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




 auticus wrote:
Yeah not seeing the problem with the allies system or what it represents here either. If you don't want to follow the restriction then bump down to the grand alliance rules.


Judging by the lack of response despite a significant time-lapse I'm going to wager he didn't know he could do that and is now feeling silly.


 
   
Made in au
Sacrifice to the Dark Gods



Queensland

 auticus wrote:
Yeah not seeing the problem with the allies system or what it represents here either. If you don't want to follow the restriction then bump down to the grand alliance rules.


can't have savage Orruk allegiance and have a unit of gitmob wolf riders because savage orruks can't have them as allies, so i lose my save and access to my savage orruk spells for the cost of running wolf riders which absolutely would interact with savage orruks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Want to run free peoples and that lovely detachment special rule but you really want to have some dwarfs in there, nah we can't let you do that but you know 5 imperials knights in a friendly game is fine, gw logic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 00:58:44


Get off my bloody lawn! 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Yeah thats the point. If you want to cherrypick whatever you want just play Alliance. By your logic everyone should ally with everyone else in the same alliance. And thats actually fine. Thats why you can do it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 01:24:08


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in au
Sacrifice to the Dark Gods



Queensland

Well yeah basic goblins should be an ally for savage orcs, they the most basic common goblin and you have to give up the thing that makes savage orcs interesting with their 6 up save to add a few goblins, i find it really funny, i don't play in rated play so im gonna use the savage orc allegiance and still run normal goblins, if people don't like it they don't have to play it, i can play my multiplayer army on total war that has savages and goblins, just found the restriction so amusing.

Get off my bloody lawn! 
   
Made in au
Skink Armed with a Blowpipe



Australia

I think there are some certainly questionable missing allies options in the game.
The Bonesplitterz not allying with Gitmob Grots is possibly one of them. Although potentially this could be due to balance concerns (Kunnin' ruk plus Gitmob war machines... hmm........).
I think Slaves to Darkness not being able to ally with Monsters of Chaos and Nighthaunt unable to ally in Deathmages are bigger discrepencies.

As for Humans and Duardin. I think that's largely because GW decided to play things pretty close to old world factions. Ogors like Ogors. Greenskinz like Greenskinz. Humans like Humans.

That being said. I think for competitive and balanced play the allies system is fine and works. But if it's not working for you, then talk to your opponents about it.
If you want to run Bonesplitterz with Gitmob Grots or Gutbuster Ogors or something, then as long as they're fine with it go for it. Or if you want to increase the allies cap to fit in some other things, sure, if you're group is happy then why not.
At the end of the day, the allegiance abilities only effect your 'main' army anyway. So in more casual games, it doesn't particularly matter if that main army makes up 80% or just 50% of the force.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Both humans and dwarfs can ally with Ironweld because it is a mixed-race faction, so that one's pretty obvious.

Gitmobs... I honestly think are going to get phased out in favor of a new grot faction at some point, and they don't have many allies to wean players off them. They have a lot of models which are all old as hell, many of them not plastic. GW wants to move into everything being plastic, so basically they would have to do a bunch of new kits when they could just create a new more AoS-thematic faction instead. I'm betting Grotbag Scuttlers.

StD's not being able to take Monsters of Chaos is pretty silly though. And Nighthaunts not getting Deathmages is a critical oversight, even the start collecting box has a deathmage in it! I suspect the Death sub-factions will at least be reorganized come Battletome: Nagash.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in au
Sacrifice to the Dark Gods



Queensland

someone2040 wrote:
I think there are some certainly questionable missing allies options in the game.
The Bonesplitterz not allying with Gitmob Grots is possibly one of them. Although potentially this could be due to balance concerns (Kunnin' ruk plus Gitmob war machines... hmm........).
I think Slaves to Darkness not being able to ally with Monsters of Chaos and Nighthaunt unable to ally in Deathmages are bigger discrepencies.

As for Humans and Duardin. I think that's largely because GW decided to play things pretty close to old world factions. Ogors like Ogors. Greenskinz like Greenskinz. Humans like Humans.

That being said. I think for competitive and balanced play the allies system is fine and works. But if it's not working for you, then talk to your opponents about it.
If you want to run Bonesplitterz with Gitmob Grots or Gutbuster Ogors or something, then as long as they're fine with it go for it. Or if you want to increase the allies cap to fit in some other things, sure, if you're group is happy then why not.
At the end of the day, the allegiance abilities only effect your 'main' army anyway. So in more casual games, it doesn't particularly matter if that main army makes up 80% or just 50% of the force.


Im not very familiar with death but i'd say deadwalkers being allies of deadwalkers was the strangest allies i've found, either it's a bad oversight or they really put that little time and effort into structuring allies, phasing out gitmobs makes sense but they should still allow basic goblins to join other orc types, ironweld are a weird one, the only way you can get a cannon is with the dwarf crew, so you can have a dwarf crewed cannon and a human manned helblaster but your not allowed a unit of thunderer's. I'll probally just put my focus more into 40k, there is alot more freedom for themed lists now compared to aos imo.

Get off my bloody lawn! 
   
 
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