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Hi all
Devastators in 8th 40K

my go to devastator squad is: 4x missile launchers with a razorback & twin Las Cannons

last week I played imp guard & where I fielded 4x Las cannon & 4 Missile launchers, lots of tanks about

I rarely mix my devastators

im toying with 4x Grav Cannons :

Are they wirth it or would you stick to either Las or missiles?

I usually play against either marines or imp guard

Id love to here your thoughts

Las-cannons or heavy bolters. Preferably las-cannons

Sticking one missile launcher in your squads seems like it's probably a good idea so that you can potentially take advantage of the Flakk strategem, but otherwise lascannons are going to be better. Similarly, one plasma cannon per squad might be worth it to take advantage of the Signum's +1 to hit per turn. I know you said you don't like to mix, but if it were me I'd have squads of 2 las, 1 missile, and 1 plasma cannon if I'm looking for anti-tank shooting, and either all heavy bolters or 3 heavy bolters and a missile launcher for anti-infantry.

yes if there's lots of infantry with the tanks id drop the razorback & go for a predator (Auto & 2x heavy bolters or Twin las & 2x heavy bolters if playing PL)

But no ones mentioned grav are they worth taking. ive never used them (seen a good deal on ebay)

I think missile launchers have its ultility if you are facing Daemons, the Frag rounds can deal with hordes of Daemonettes, Bloodletters, or Horrors. while when shooting Greater Daemons or those Daemon Engines, that -2 AP of the Krak missile is no differences to -3 AP on the lascannon because they very rarely can gain 2+ Sv and all of them have a 5++. Futhermore, SM has the "flak missile" Stratagem, which only missile launcher can use, while many Daemon have "fly" so makes a perfect target for that 1CP D3 Mortal Wounds.

I am a huge fan of missile launchers when you don't know what your fighting, their tactical flexibility is not to be easily dismissed. However if you have a good idea what's coming then a squad of 4 laz or 3 laz and a missile are excellent vs heavy targets. And against infantry heavy bolters are excellent choices.

You didn't mention your chapter, that can make a big difference too. Salamanders like a single plasma cannon in there because they can always reroll. Dark angels it's 4 plasma cannons for that beautiful stratagem (Dark age weapons I think it's called?). The one where it adds +1 to the damage done. don't underestimate overcharged plasma cannons at str 8, ap-3, 3 damage, with rerolls thanks to Grim Resolve. That's just plain scarry.

A ML is never going to be as good as a las cannon or a Heavy bolter. but its nice to have when you dont have one or the other in certain situations.

im really warming up to plasma cannons though. its like the ML in that it has the multi shot to deal with multi units but strong enough to deal with tanks and elites.

Plasma cannons can be very devastating for sure.

The primary feature on the missile launcher is honestly the range and the commonality of T7 targets.

I play Ultra marines

I have every variant apart from grav

I notice no seems to metion grav?

is that no one has the models or no one like it?

 rockgod2304 wrote:
I play Ultra marines

I have every variant apart from grav

I notice no seems to metion grav?

is that no one has the models or no one like it?

Im sure a heavy amount of people have them as they used to be very popular in 7th.

i never got in on that hype train.

but at what.. 4 shots st 5 and -3 ap its not bad against mooks, better against elites with multi wounds and high armor saves whom will probably have a 5+ invul often so the -3 isnt wasted for the most part, and with enough attacks could conceivably deal with t7-8 tanks.

24" range is probably going to be the problem.

Range is the main issue with grav cannons. The extra shot and AP makes them more effective and efficient pointswise than a heavy bolter vs anything that's not relying on an invuln or a 6+... if in range and standing still.

Medicinal Carrots wrote:
Range is the main issue with grav cannons. The extra shot and AP makes them more effective and efficient pointswise than a heavy bolter vs anything that's not relying on an invuln or a 6+... if in range and standing still.

That's absolutely untrue. You get 3 Heavy Bolters for the price of one Grav Cannon. They're better vs different targets.

Grav excels in the niche role of short range anti 3+/no invul save/multiwound models - in every other scenario you are better off with a different weapon; as others have already pointed out short range isn't a devastators friend. If I fancy taking a grav cannon it would be in a rhino tactical squad.

For me the optimal devastator squad is a cherub, 3 lascannons, and then either a heavy bolter or a plasma cannon. All nice long range weapons, the bolter has the option to use hellfire shells so is never a bad choice, and the safe overcharge on the plasma cannon will generally do better than a missile launcher (especially if you use the cherub).

Does anyone else also never both with missiles? The main reason people keep quoting is for the flakk missile, but to me it's just a hellfire shell with +1 to hit.

Personally im a fan of 1 lascannon and 3 without heavy weapons as shields. Makes for a much cheaper squad letting you fill out detatchments nicely and works great in a Salamanders brigade

U02dah4 wrote:
Personally im a fan of 1 lascannon and 3 without heavy weapons as shields. Makes for a much cheaper squad letting you fill out detatchments nicely and works great in a Salamanders brigade

If your only taking a single heavy weapon why not make them tacticals?

Only difference between them and a tactical would be the single cherub option.

its not "awful" for a first turn volley.

but otherwise they are exactly the same as a tac squad without obj secured.

And like

The fact the Lascannon hits on 2's.
In an army that often re-rolls 1's to hit.

The lascannon that gets to shoot twice, mind you, both shots hitting on twos.

I'd say thats worth 5pts more than a Tac squad.

 Desubot wrote:
Only difference between them and a tactical would be the single cherub option.

its not "awful" for a first turn volley.

but otherwise they are exactly the same as a tac squad without obj secured.

Also the signum, +1 to hit for the las every turn. Filling up a heavy slot too, if you're going for a brigade.

I usually run 2 naked + sarge, cherub and 2 heavy weapons.

Any more weapons than that in a squad they become too juicy of a target and lose points too quickly. Having to chew through 3 3+ (preferably 2+) wounds before getting to the juicy weapons is a must in my super killiy meta.

On gravs, the -1 to hit after moving a 24" weapon sucks. Although add Gulliman and he's a game-changer for those things (re-rolling wounds with a good save modifier is exactly what marines need). I've found they work best piled into a razorback so when the razor back pops the grav guys can get out and keep up the 24" gman backed shooting.

And devs > tacs because of the cherub and +1 to hit. Hopping out of that razorback cherub and +1 means 8 +1 to hit with 4 more shots, re-rolling misses and failed wounds out-performs pretty much any marine option across a broad swath of potential targets (great ppw vs vehicles, MEQ, GEQ and TEQ, doesn't lose more than one category vs most marine weapons.)

Problem is keeping them alive after this but that's what the ablative wounds are for (and eversor assassins in their backfield...)

Azuza001 wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Personally im a fan of 1 lascannon and 3 without heavy weapons as shields. Makes for a much cheaper squad letting you fill out detatchments nicely and works great in a Salamanders brigade

If your only taking a single heavy weapon why not make them tacticals?

Exactly. Two Heavy Weapons and then always have 2 meatshields.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Insularum wrote:
Grav excels in the niche role of short range anti 3+/no invul save/multiwound models - in every other scenario you are better off with a different weapon; as others have already pointed out short range isn't a devastators friend. If I fancy taking a grav cannon it would be in a rhino tactical squad.

For me the optimal devastator squad is a cherub, 3 lascannons, and then either a heavy bolter or a plasma cannon. All nice long range weapons, the bolter has the option to use hellfire shells so is never a bad choice, and the safe overcharge on the plasma cannon will generally do better than a missile launcher (especially if you use the cherub).

Does anyone else also never both with missiles? The main reason people keep quoting is for the flakk missile, but to me it's just a hellfire shell with +1 to hit.

The +1 to hit vs units you might need to kill is pretty clutch at times.

This edition, because every model can split-fire, theres absolutely no reason not to split your weapons up per squad if your taking multiple squads.

In fact, it is better to do so, as it means your opponent has a harder time picking a target to focus his fire on.


Example:

Dev squad with 4 lazcannons and Dev squad with 4 Heavy bolter.

I know for a fact if I'm running mostly infantry, the 4 lazcannons can be ignored. I will kill the HB first.


If you were to split 2 HB and 2 lazcannon into each squad it would mean I would have a much harder time getting rid of the weapons I want to.



Also, due to flak missle strat being decent most of the time, you should stick one missle launcher in each squad.

I wouldn't put four weapons in a squad though unless I had three meatshields.

I use two units with 2 lascannons and 2 plascannons each, both with cherub and one ablative wound. They deploy next to each other so different range isn't an issue. Remember that during the first turn if you go second you can kill first the ablative bolter then the cherub then the sarge. When in cover they are really hard to shift.

I didn't know you can split fire as a squad

a mixed dev squad might be advantageous now

 Desubot wrote:

 rockgod2304 wrote:
I play Ultra marines

I have every variant apart from grav

I notice no seems to metion grav?

is that no one has the models or no one like it?

Im sure a heavy amount of people have them as they used to be very popular in 7th.

i never got in on that hype train.

but at what.. 4 shots st 5 and -3 ap its not bad against mooks, better against elites with multi wounds and high armor saves whom will probably have a 5+ invul often so the -3 isnt wasted for the most part, and with enough attacks could conceivably deal with t7-8 tanks.

24" range is probably going to be the problem.

if custodes where a biiig thing in your area I bet grav'd be good

 rockgod2304 wrote:
I didn't know you can split fire as a squad

a mixed dev squad might be advantageous now

There's also tactical gains to be had by splitting more than just "heavy bolters vs infantry, lascannons against tanks". For example if you were to have 2 squads of 4 heavy bolters and are facing squads that are not immune to morale by rule or by being MSU. IG infantry for example. Rather than fire one squad into one squad until it's wiped out consider splitting say 2 HB per squad. Then other targets. If you can aim getting say 5-7 wounds per squad you would be causing additional damage by morale. If you concentrate fire fully you will likely wipe squad out but you lose casualties and you will not taking advantage of troopers lost to morale.

Of course sometimes this results in heavy weapon being alive turn longer but this way you can get all the squads and their heavy weapons faster out. You need to think which one is more valuable.

Same goes with say tacticals. If you have multiple tactical squads consider splitting fire and try to force morale checks to several squads and watch them run away.

Another advantage of mixing guns across squads is targeting. You pick where all the guns in the squad are going to shoot before you roll the dice. So if the 2xLC in one squad kill that tank you need dead, the 2 in the other squad can target something else. Rather then just dumping all 4 into your priority target. Mathhammer is good for figuring out how many shots on average will be needed, but once our fickle little friends start up with the random, sometimes you need to adjust on the fly.

Disadvantage is that if you are applying buffs, some can only be given to one squad at a time. Not an issue for auras, but some stratagems and the like will have to choose.

So I run my Dev squads 2 LC, 1 ML, 1 PC. That's my standard loadout.

Other Missiles I tend to take in Tacs if at all.

Grav is good if you can get it there. SftS, Drop Pods, and Lias are the only ways of doing that though, and Drop Pods are pretty awful so you are limited otherwise. I will usually use my Grav in Tac Squads riding in Rhino's with Combi Plasmas if I take them at all.

I usually run larger than 5 man squads, but in 5 man units I would do no more than 3 heavy weapons.

Plascannon is a decent alternative. I use a 4man squad with combiplas in the sarge and an ablative wound as the closest squad of my gunline. They have earned back their points everytime. Even if they draw fire, it means less shots towards my other lascannon devsquad or my hellblasters.

Plascannon is scary if you play DA

I'm sad about how bad multi meltas are, why are they more expensive than lascannons?