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My buddy cast the imperial guard psychic power "terrifying visions" on my horror unit, lowering their Leadership by 2. When the horros later that turn makes a moral test i have a Lord of change within 6, so i opt to use his leadership instead of theirs. Does the "Terrifying visions" affect this leadership and moral test, since they are now not using their own, but the lord of change's ?

My buddy argues that it does, since this effect counts as a modifier and therefor should added AFTER the roll, regardless of who's leadership is being used.

I Argue that its a stat modifer, since the power clearly states that it lowers the the targeted unit's leadership stat by 2. So if they use another units leadership (if possible) then power has no effect.

please help - we can't agree, and are stuck

Greater Daemon says, "...can use this model's Leadership instead of their own."

Terrifying Visions says, "That unit subtracts two from its Leadership."

So Horrors are Ld 7-2=5. Now they get to use the LoC's Ld instead of their own, which is 10. Visions isn't applied to the LoC, so the Lord is unchanged. The neg mod is only on the Horrors, and in no way applies to the Lord.

Visions doesn't say, "Subtract 2 from any Morale tests," and it does clearly say it subtracts from the UNIT's Ld, not from anything else, and definitely not from a dfft unit's Ld.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Greater Daemon says, "...can use this model's Leadership instead of their own."

Terrifying Visions says, "That unit subtracts two from its Leadership."

So Horrors are Ld 7-2=5. Now they get to use the LoC's Ld instead of their own, which is 10. Visions isn't applied to the LoC, so the Lord is unchanged. The neg mod is only on the Horrors, and in no way applies to the Lord.

Visions doesn't say, "Subtract 2 from any Morale tests," and it does clearly say it subtracts from the UNIT's Ld, not from anything else, and definitely not from a dfft unit's Ld.

This is indeed correct. The Terrifying Visions power affects only the unit's LD, so if you use another units LD it's not affected.

Modifiers work in this order.

-Multiplication /Division
-Addition/Subtractions
-Flat Numbers (so if something is resolved at Str 5, it only resolves @ str 5)

The LoC aura falls under the third and so applies after all other modifiers.

So even if he reduced the Ld of the horrors, they still resolve at Ld 10 because it is applied last.

If you want to actually effect them, you target the Lord instead, so when they resolve their Ld it would be 8, because the lord is 8