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At the moment, I'm looking to expand my Alpha Legion army and I've been playing around with a lot of different configurations for options. Then I realized, instead of spending my points (and dollars) on all sorts of different units, I could spend both on one huge distraction carnifex. However, as I have never played Imperial or Renegade Knights, much less even seen one of the models in real life, I wanted to turn things over to more knowledgeable players ...

1) Are Renegade Knights worth fielding?

This I guess is the most pressing question since 500+ points into one unit is quite the investment. Are Renegade Knights worth fielding for what they cost or would I be better off just taking the quivalent in, say, Terminators or Obliterators?

2) Are Renegade Knights meant for long-range shooting or wrecking face up close?

They do have weapon options for both, but I'm wondering if there's a general consensus as to what the primary purpose of my Renegade Knight should be. Additionally, is it better for Renegade Knights to double-up on their weapons, such as dual-wielding Rapid Fire Battle Cannons, or is it better for them to diversify to engage a variety of targets?

3) Are Renegade Knights meant for casual or competitive play?

As someone who has never used Lord of Wars/Super Heavies, I'm not quite sure what the views of using Renegade Knights in casual play are. Would I be seen as that-fething-guy if I drop a Renegade Knight onto the table for a 2000 point game?

Thanks, All!

Bumping this post as I think I've settled on a load-out and I wanted to check one last time if the Dakka community had any thoughts:

1x Renegade Knight
- Avenger Gatling Cannon, Thermal Gauntlet (arm weapons)
- Melta Gun
- Ironstorm Missile Pod

From my readings, it looks like the Avenger Gatling Cannon outperforms the Rapid Fire Battle Cannon and the Thermal Cannon on all targets except armour. I know that Renegade Knights can double-up on the same weapon, but I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle hunting down the second AGC bits if I can just slap on a Thermal Gauntlet for close combat situations.

Sorry to see no replies to this so far. I thought I'd offer my opinion (for what it's worth) as a passionate Knight player who runs a Renegade house these days.

1) It depends... Against very competitive lists Knights often don't last very long. On paper they do look reasonably tough, but it's surprising how quickly a focused list can alpha one down. Losing your Knight in turn one is a very real possibility now. This is especially true of Renegade Knights who do not benefit in any way from some of the more useful stratagems released in Chapter Approved and Codex Mechanicus - hopefully this will be addressed at some point.

2) Both. It does depend on the varient you're using, but optimally, you want to shoot AND get a turn in in melee each round. Remember that it is often possible for you to withdraw at will so you can shoot again, and re-charge each turn. Many people would agree that actually doing so is critical if you wish to make your points back.

Mathematically, unless you are needing to tailor your knight for a specific list you want to counter, it's arguably almost always optimal to take advantage of the fact you can run twin avenger assault cannon as a renegade. They just do the most work against the largest variety of targets. Remember, your size 300 feet are one of your most valuable melee weapons, so don't panic that you aren't equipping a chainsword or Gauntlet. You won't need them against 'general' targets.

3) Right now? I'd say they work best in casual play. Though you certainly could use them elsewhere, they aren't seen as very competitive currently - though I've high hopes that will change come our codex, and it wouldn't put me off using them in competitive play - I just wouldn't expect any easy wins.

You certainly shouldn't feel like 'that guy' for running a single Knight in a 2000 point game. In fact, many would argue that you'd have a handicap as point for point - as we've explored - they just aren't all that competitive. In 8th, no opponent should really have an excuse to not feel able to deal with a Knight at 2000 points - save that they are very inexperienced

Hope this is of some help!

Yeah I don't think a knight would be a great addition to an alpha legion army.

The issue with it is that your infantry is difficult to shoot, so it's a waste of time firing big guns at them. But there's no penalty to hit the knight.

Of course, if it's a cultist-heavy list that ties up enemy shooting units, the knight might live.

Best guns, if you can get them, are double fusion.

Honestly, I know a lot of people don't like the model, but if you want to field something like this with Alpha Legion, use the Lord of Skulls.

It's degradation track is better.
It's weapons are better.
It can be buffed by CSM psychic powers and auras.
It has more wounds.
Lastly, if you really want to you can downgrade the weapons to make it comparably priced with the Renegade Knight, however, if you can find the points, the default configuration is by far the best.

If you do go with the Knight, best use its unique loadout of double weapons, namely double battle cannons. It's stomp attacks make it still formidable in CC.

I always thought double melta might be a good loadout, but I'm sure the math hammer speaks otherwise.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
If you do go with the Knight, best use its unique loadout of double weapons, namely double battle cannons. It's stomp attacks make it still formidable in CC.

I always thought double melta might be a good loadout, but I'm sure the math hammer speaks otherwise.

Did you mean double Assault Cannons? The Battle Cannon only really shines against the other options against toughness 7 vehicles specifically. It's out classed by the other ranged options in all other scenarios unfortunately. It does have great range, so you could sit back and snipe with a pair, but then I think you waste any chance of making back points with your CC potential :/

The Thermal Cannon is decent, but *only* if you're targeting heavy multi-wound models, so a pair is probably overkill in general. For anything else it's Avenger all the way (unless points are a big consideration - it is the most expensive option).
If you're looking at a loadout that is specifically for killing the big stuff, I'd be tempted to just run an Atropos where it's an option. It hits even harder, has quite a bit more survivability, and the Renegade version even gets an additional special rule above its Imperial counterpart for the same points

Wow, thanks for all the advice guys!

StrayIight wrote:


Hope this is of some help!

This was definitely very helpful! I interested in using a Knight because most of my army doesn't have long-range weaponry and so the Knight's weapons would, in theory, help mitigate that. I'll also definitely keep in mind that I should both shoot with it and swing with it in melee to get the best of both worlds.

Mandragola wrote:Yeah I don't think a knight would be a great addition to an alpha legion army.

The issue with it is that your infantry is difficult to shoot, so it's a waste of time firing big guns at them. But there's no penalty to hit the knight.

Of course, if it's a cultist-heavy list that ties up enemy shooting units, the knight might live.

Best guns, if you can get them, are double fusion.

I was also thinking of Double Thermal Cannon as well for long-range anti-tank, but again, I don't have easy access to bits. My Alpha Legion army actually relies a lot on the "Forward Operatives" strategy so, in theory, I could tie up most of my opponent's guns, or I could force him to choose between gunning down my Knight or that giant horde of Possessed Marines knocking on his door.

TwinPoleTheory wrote:Honestly, I know a lot of people don't like the model, but if you want to field something like this with Alpha Legion, use the Lord of Skulls.

It's degradation track is better.
It's weapons are better.
It can be buffed by CSM psychic powers and auras.
It has more wounds.
Lastly, if you really want to you can downgrade the weapons to make it comparably priced with the Renegade Knight, however, if you can find the points, the default configuration is by far the best.

Sadly, my army's fluff is mostly aligned to Nurgle, but the Khorne Lord of Skulls does look interesting! I'll look into it some more, but I think my heart is set on a Knight for now.

If your heart's set on twin Thermal Cannon and you're stuck for bits, I have a spare that you can have gratis if needed.

Hit me up via a PM or similar and we'll sort something out if you like.

Don't settle on weapons. Magnetize it! It's not that hard since even I was able to do it so now I can do them all. Only really tricky part is the thermal cannon/battle cannon weapon part itself. Apart from that magnets are easy enough. And with GW you never know they might flip the rules soon around so that the configuration you DIDN'T pick is the next uber cheese.

1) No

2) You really need to do both for it to be effective. Take the Avenger or Melta cannon. The battlecannon is generally worse.

3) Casual. If you get second turn against a competitive list it will probably lose 10-20 wounds before doing anything.

4) If you really wants to use the knight, then you need to bring along som target saturation. Say, a couple of vindicators, a demon primarch, or Bezerkers in rhinos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Don't settle on weapons. Magnetize it! It's not that hard since even I was able to do it so now I can do them all. Only really tricky part is the thermal cannon/battle cannon weapon part itself. Apart from that magnets are easy enough. And with GW you never know they might flip the rules soon around so that the configuration you DIDN'T pick is the next uber cheese.

And please listen to this excellent advice. Magnetize the arms, so that you can swap weapon options around. Not just because rules and points change, sometimes you just need to try something a little bit different.

If you do glue the options on, then use cyanoacrylate rather than a plastic welding cement. Cured CA becomes very brittle in the freezer, so that you can usually debond the parts with gentle application of force