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I've always wondered this about the Eldar - the Dark Eldar use beasts and homunculi, while the Craftworlders don't even use so much as a drone. In the lore, the Eldar seem to value their life (or at least fear death) more so than other races since death means risking their soul being devoured. Even if they die in relative safety with a soul gem, that's certainly less pleasant of a result than just throwing some Xenos in front of you.

I always thought this was doubly true for Guardians. Guardians seem like they should come out only in desperate times. If any civilized country rounded up the poets and artists and gave them a pewny gun, you know they're in trouble. However, in the game, they're just basic troop grunts.

Is there some lore reason they don't have some 2ndary grunt race or drones to act as fodder? The dark eldar at least use beasts - but there aren't any beats/homunculi that fill the troop role. Dark Eldar seem to have even a greater reason to fear death and don't seem like they would have morality issues with forcing some other xeno race to act as fodder.

Hmmm...

Well Eldar see all races as a lower form of life, however engineering a lower form of less xenophobic than humans seems not entirely impossible.

A lower race who provide a sub caste of warriors. They have no heavy need of a slave caste due to there hyper advanced etch.

So a meats sheild caste may work to throw at the enemy.

They do in an indirect sense, their actions are often geared towards creating conflict between other races and diverting threats to save Eldar having to fight at all.

As to why they don't maintain a levy of Xenos slave soldiers Mamluk style? Maybe they are concerned about them being a vector for the taint of Chaos, pollution of Eldar culture or the threat of rebellion.

Obviously Dark Eldar fight because they enjoy inflicting pain and terror, no Dark Eldar would last long in Commorragh if they are a coward.

The Dark Eldar enjoying inflicting pain and terror doesn't really mean they'd be willing to die for it though. They dont have the soul-gem safety net. They'd probably just prefer to raid defenseless settlements rather than go head on with Space Marines. They have even more to fear from death than the Craftworlds. Their lore says that they cheat death (and Slanesh's soul-hunger) by eating other's souls to extend their lives - thus the need for captives and raids.

They've already got captives - seems like they'd be smarter to force them into a slave-army or some sort. Fight for us, or we eat your soul. Free fodder.

Eldar use their dead as meat shields Which are wraith constructs.
Not sure why they dont use drones. They have the tech.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
Eldar use their dead as meat shields Which are wraith constructs.
Not sure why they dont use drones. They have the tech.

No, they dont. Other than Iyanden, which has no choice, Craftworlds will only use Wraith constructs as a last resort, not as a go to.



Generally, when they must fight, Eldar prefer to fight their wars themselves because of the Fall. Indolance and leaving everything to automation is seen as a key part of what lead to the creation of the pleasure cults, fighting wars might put their existence on an indavidual level at risk but it's seen as part of the process of staving off the ennui that led to the fall.

Also, I don't think you understand what an Haemonculus is, they're still Eldar, just the mad scientists of Commoragh.

Guardians DO only come out when things are desperate. Your standard Eldar army is Aspect Warriors.

They have the means to easily produce highly desirable goods, so it would be easy for them to hire mercenaries. It feel like hiring mercenaries, and keeping a very distant, business-only attitude towards them would be a more eldary thing to do than actually training/commanding a other species.
But then it would be a totally different army on the tabletop. I think the main reason is therefore that people like to play space elves on the tabletop, and so the lore has to match because reasons.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
Eldar use their dead as meat shields Which are wraith constructs.
Not sure why they dont use drones. They have the tech.

They abhor idea of using them and avoid it if possible. It's putting their revered ancestors to battlefield and risk destruction of their spirit stone thus having their soul eaten by Slaanesh. Would be rather disrespectful!

They use them if must but if they are then things are hairy.

I think a big part of arogance plays into this.

You could argue that craftworld eldars already use other races.

Dark eldars enjoy the carnage as far as I understand. They raids also last very short, so bringing clumsy automatons would not be functional. Although the haemonculy and beastmasters use other races and beasts.

Both already use other races as cannon fodder. The Craftworld Eldar prefer to manipulate other races into doing their bidding over doing the fighting themselves. When they do fight themselves it is only because they saw no other option.
Dark Eldar armies use wracks and other constructs fashioned from slaves to do the heavy fighting for them. The only reason Dark Eldar don't let these slave armies do all of the fighting is because quite simply they enjoy fighting a lot because it allows them to inflict suffering and experience the thrills of battle, even if it carries the risk of death. Even when not at war, many Dark Eldar constantly risk their lives by fighting in their arenas or racing in deadly jetbike contests. However, when fighting they do generally attack from ambush or draw enemies away from their targets first, minimising their risk of dying. Dark Eldar will never risk getting stuck into a conventional battle or engage an opponent on even odds. If the Dark Eldar are faced with an opponent that they can not take on without suffering heavy casualties, they will send in the heamonculi constructs rather than sacrifice their own lives.

I think that also, the games we play are when whatever is being fought for has to happen. At this point, you can’t rely on a subtly-manipulated catspaw any longer; you use what you can trust, and that means Your Guys.

Pilum wrote:
I think that also, the games we play are when whatever is being fought for has to happen. At this point, you can’t rely on a subtly-manipulated catspaw any longer; you use what you can trust, and that means Your Guys.

Which in case of the Dark Eldar, is exactly who you absolutely should not trust.

They already do. It's just that when they manipulate others into fighting, they never get into the fight themselves. So you can sorta consider every non-eldar fight to be somehow the Eldar using one of the two sides as fodder.

When actual Eldar forces are forced to fight, then something has gone horribly wrong.

Also Dark Eldar is different in that they need the pleasure of battle to sustain themselves. Their armor is strapped to their bodies via hooks!

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Both already use other races as cannon fodder. The Craftworld Eldar prefer to manipulate other races into doing their bidding over doing the fighting themselves.

Aye. The craftworlders do use others as fodder, it's just that the fodder and whoever they're fighting don't know about it.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Both already use other races as cannon fodder. The Craftworld Eldar prefer to manipulate other races into doing their bidding over doing the fighting themselves. When they do fight themselves it is only because they saw no other option.
Dark Eldar armies use wracks and other constructs fashioned from slaves to do the heavy fighting for them. The only reason Dark Eldar don't let these slave armies do all of the fighting is because quite simply they enjoy fighting a lot because it allows them to inflict suffering and experience the thrills of battle, even if it carries the risk of death. Even when not at war, many Dark Eldar constantly risk their lives by fighting in their arenas or racing in deadly jetbike contests. However, when fighting they do generally attack from ambush or draw enemies away from their targets first, minimising their risk of dying. Dark Eldar will never risk getting stuck into a conventional battle or engage an opponent on even odds. If the Dark Eldar are faced with an opponent that they can not take on without suffering heavy casualties, they will send in the heamonculi constructs rather than sacrifice their own lives.

Yeah, send in the constructs and retreat under cover of there meat sheilds, regroup or leave the world and take what they have gained. After all, you cannot gain rescources if your dead. A smaller prize is better than dying over the big one when you have no soul backup plans. theres always new raids and weaker worlds to prey on.

They don't often for example pick on Marine home worlds or such other ones. I think they did in one slanamanders book but that was part of a larger force, and even they retreated when faced with stiff marine resitence, making a clear risk vs reward choice to retreat alive.

I agree with a lot of what other have said. In addition, I think the Craftworlders like fighting - it gives focus and discipline from the lure of She Who Thirsts.

Who says they don't? A force of Blood Angels receives a distress signal that somehow manages to pierce the veil of the Shadow of the Warp, and deploys to fight a swarm of Tyranids that would in the future threaten a craftworld. During the fighting, a Scout Squad mysteriously vanishes - most likely killed by a Lictor, but actually ambushed by Rangers, since the Scout carrying the Heavy Bolter would have otherwise later become a Captain that would ferret out a plan that hasn't even been divined by the Farseers yet.

The swarm is destroyed, the Mon Keigh are non the wiser in your involvement, and a future threat is dealt with.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Who says they don't? A force of Blood Angels receives a distress signal that somehow manages to pierce the veil of the Shadow of the Warp, and deploys to fight a swarm of Tyranids that would in the future threaten a craftworld. During the fighting, a Scout Squad mysteriously vanishes - most likely killed by a Lictor, but actually ambushed by Rangers, since the Scout carrying the Heavy Bolter would have otherwise later become a Captain that would ferret out a plan that hasn't even been divined by the Farseers yet.

The swarm is destroyed, the Mon Keigh are non the wiser in your involvement, and a future threat is dealt with.

But the question is, why didn't they use other races to kill the Scout rather than risk an Aeldari life?

craftworld_uk wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Who says they don't? A force of Blood Angels receives a distress signal that somehow manages to pierce the veil of the Shadow of the Warp, and deploys to fight a swarm of Tyranids that would in the future threaten a craftworld. During the fighting, a Scout Squad mysteriously vanishes - most likely killed by a Lictor, but actually ambushed by Rangers, since the Scout carrying the Heavy Bolter would have otherwise later become a Captain that would ferret out a plan that hasn't even been divined by the Farseers yet.

The swarm is destroyed, the Mon Keigh are non the wiser in your involvement, and a future threat is dealt with.

But the question is, why didn't they use other races to kill the Scout rather than risk an Aeldari life?

The Eldar can maintain real-time psychic contact with each other. They can't do that with other people (especially Tyranids). If you've got a plan that has to be executed carefully and with precision it's better to put forces on the ground you can coordinate precisely and update if the skeins of fate shift and require them to do something different.

Imagine in the above case that the Farseers don't have the ability to be that precise; they know that the Scout squad presents a grave danger in the future but that far out they can't see exactly how. If it turns out that the manner in which the Scouts were killed arouses suspicion, or if the important one has a chance of surviving the attack, it's better to have someone on the ground you can direct in case their attack makes something worse.

The lore presents the future as easier to read the more likely it is, and as constantly shifting as the present moves along and cuts off paths, so it could fluctuate wildly at a moment's notice depending on what sort of improbable things are happening at any given point.

(Yes, you could argue that the Eldar could try engineering some kind of robot or biological construct that they could command remotely in the same way, but given what happens to engineered soldiers in this galaxy I give that a 20% chance of working correctly and an 80% chance of being how GW introduces a new Chaos-aligned xenos army with a deep-seated hatred for the Eldar, so...)

Because Riptides became overcosted.

Eldar used to use "drones" - as in a psychically-controlled sort - in their history leading up to the fall.

It's part of the why they fell.
Without labour to engage them, they became the ultimate leisure society - their machines did everything for them - not just tending crops/foods, but also their warfare; allowing them to start the slow slide into the depraved mess that begat she-who-thirsts.

It's why they don't do it now.

It's part of the "history repeats" aspect throughout the 40k history. Eldar did it this way and fell. Humans begat the men of iron, and that bit them on the ass, so they don't do AI anymore.

Pride I assume has a big part in it.

Besides the history bit Chromedog mentions the Elder wouldn't lower themselves to doing it like their depraved Deldar brethren.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Pilum wrote:
I think that also, the games we play are when whatever is being fought for has to happen. At this point, you can’t rely on a subtly-manipulated catspaw any longer; you use what you can trust, and that means Your Guys.

Which in case of the Dark Eldar, is exactly who you absolutely should not trust.

In a way Dark Eldar are extremely reliable.

uhhhh. They do. All the time.

Eldar are just generally more subtle about it. They simply trick the lesser beings into doing what they want them to do instead of using threat or force to do it.

Being a new Eldar player I'm not exactly sure on this but...

Isn't that why we ally with Mon-Keigh?

 darkcloak wrote:
Being a new Eldar player I'm not exactly sure on this but...

Isn't that why we ally with Mon-Keigh?

its now the alliance. Eldars are helping humans so they could stand against chaos, and defend the eldars in process

Eldar are known to manipulate events to cause trillions of human deaths for the sake of a few thousand Eldar.

Armageddon was a classic example IIRC, they pointed Ghaz there to stop him krumpin' a craftworld.

IIRC what happened was the Eldar manipulated some Space Marines to attack Ghaz's settlement, kill the existing warboss, allowing Ghaz to rise to power so he would lead an attack on Armageddon rather than a Craftworld. Simplicity itself.

They do, they just don't just inform the fodder of this fact. Armageddon was just as planned.