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The current rule "one grenade per unit" seems unnecessary. I think "one grenade per model" instead of shooting guns or pistols would be a better limitation.
Imagine a full marine squad being able to shower close enemy vehicles in krak grenades. Or ork boyz just massing stick bombz into enemy ranks. I think it would be cool, and make most infantry units more flexible.

What do you guys think of the current grenade rules? Good as it is or more/less grenades?

Mmmmmm dunno. its often a free upgrade but at the same time a krak is a st6 ap1 D d3 weapon. a unit shooting 5-10 of those seem pretty strong.

especially on units that are naturally cheap.

also large frag volleys might take up a lot of time.

I see where you're going, but for me, it would cause a lot of point imbalance unless a lot of changes were made. Grenades really have a 12" range (since you can add the models movement if you play smart, and I'm not talking open topped transports...that would be massive!) so giving cheap units a 12" S6 AP -1 D3 damage (or d6 shots S3 etc) "gun" equivalent drastically changes things. I am not saying ridiculous, just a change. I just think it would take a lot of looking at point totals for the units that come with grenades, particularly models under 8ish points.

Yeah, I could see whole units getting to throw grenades, but not without some major rebalancing. Some units would get a huge boost from this.

Hmm. Battle focusing dire avengers or raider riding wyches doing an average of 35 strength 4 AP -1 shots...

That's roughly 22 hits and...
vs marines... 11 wounds, ~5 failed saves.
vs guardsmen... ~14 wounds, ~12 failed saves
vs ork boyz... 11 wounds, 11 dead boyz.

Seems a bit much, but the visual is cool.

As others pointed out, consider the point costs of grenades vs other guns. Is it really fair to have whole units chucking that much power around for free?

 Lance845 wrote:
As others pointed out, consider the point costs of grenades vs other guns. Is it really fair to have whole units chucking that much power around for free?

The drawback is the extremely short range. To use nades you often have to leave cover and such. Marines and much elite infantry are many times considered over priced, so there maybe grenade buff would improve balance? Really strong units tend to have other weapons to fire instead, so they would not allways benefit. Eldar for example could use plasma nades, but then they cant use the shuriken rule to pierce armour. I guess khorne berserkers would become slightly stronger.

Cheap infantry like guardsmen would barely benefit because frfsrf-order. And for them to move closer is a death sentence.

I can't think of any unit that would become totally broken, unless guardsmen can take krak grenades. The points cost of grenades are not a big issue since you can't fire other weopons at the same time.

Gitdakka wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
As others pointed out, consider the point costs of grenades vs other guns. Is it really fair to have whole units chucking that much power around for free?

The drawback is the extremely short range. To use nades you often have to leave cover and such. Marines and much elite infantry are many times considered over priced, so there maybe grenade buff would improve balance? Really strong units tend to have other weapons to fire instead, so they would not allways benefit. Eldar for example could use plasma nades, but then they cant use the shuriken rule to pierce armour. I guess khorne berserkers would become slightly stronger.

Cheap infantry like guardsmen would barely benefit because frfsrf-order. And for them to move closer is a death sentence.

I can't think of any unit that would become totally broken, unless guardsmen can take krak grenades. The points cost of grenades are not a big issue since you can't fire other weopons at the same time.

Im sorry. Just about everyone has some form of deepstrike or transport or stratagem to get close. The range isn't THAT big of a drawback. And leaving cover? Nobody even uses cover in 8th. The terrain rules are so gak that if it isn't LoS blocking terrain it's not being used at all.

I think Tac Marines or assault marines hucking these grenades all over the place would be very broken.

You mean Tactical Marines actually doing something would be broken?

I'm not saying I agree with the OP, but to say it's broken is pretty silly.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You mean Tactical Marines actually doing something would be broken?

I'm not saying I agree with the OP, but to say it's broken is pretty silly.

No, I am saying tac marines shooting what amounts to... 8-12 point weapons for free is broken. Tac marines are... like... 2 ppm too expensive(?). Handing them multi hit multi damage weapons for free that the whole unit can spam is bonkers.

 Lance845 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You mean Tactical Marines actually doing something would be broken?

I'm not saying I agree with the OP, but to say it's broken is pretty silly.

No, I am saying tac marines shooting what amounts to... 8-12 point weapons for free is broken. Tac marines are... like... 2 ppm too expensive(?). Handing them multi hit multi damage weapons for free that the whole unit can spam is bonkers.

I dont think it would be OVERLY broken in the case of marines.

i think cheaper units like IG could easily take quite a lot of advantage out of it

also never knock the humble frag grenade

iv honestly taken down many a storm ravens with them

 Desubot wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You mean Tactical Marines actually doing something would be broken?

I'm not saying I agree with the OP, but to say it's broken is pretty silly.

No, I am saying tac marines shooting what amounts to... 8-12 point weapons for free is broken. Tac marines are... like... 2 ppm too expensive(?). Handing them multi hit multi damage weapons for free that the whole unit can spam is bonkers.

I dont think it would be OVERLY broken in the case of marines.

i think cheaper units like IG could easily take quite a lot of advantage out of it

also never knock the humble frag grenade

iv honestly taken down many a storm ravens with them

Yeah thats my point. Frag and Krak grenades are GOOD weapons that only warrant their free price tag because you can only throw one per unit per shooting phase. The short range isn't a huge issue just something you would need to work with. This set up only works if grenades are not free but something they all have to pay for. Which means marines are getting even MORE expensive. Meanwhile Nids are grenade free and stay the same cost. Orks get more expensive. Tau get slightly more expensive (a flash bang that does no damage shouldn't cost much). etc etc...

This proposal disrupts the entire game. Bad suggestion. Back to the drawing board.

Grenades are generally a much more limited resource than most other weapons and ammunition. The whole team chucking grenades just doesn’t feel right - if you watch military videos, you usually see only one or two members of a team chuck grenades (just prior to a rush) at a time. A whole squad, advancing and lobbing grenades left and right, would be extremely chaotic and likely to end up with a friendly getting hurt.

I wouldn’t be against a modified rule (1 grenade/5 models in a team) or maybe a strategm (Ready Grenades! (1 CP): All models in the unit may throw grenades this turn). But as a regular rule, no.

 Lance845 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You mean Tactical Marines actually doing something would be broken?

I'm not saying I agree with the OP, but to say it's broken is pretty silly.

No, I am saying tac marines shooting what amounts to... 8-12 point weapons for free is broken. Tac marines are... like... 2 ppm too expensive(?). Handing them multi hit multi damage weapons for free that the whole unit can spam is bonkers.

If you want to quantify how many points it's worth, grenade launchers are 5pts on IG. Marines are better so lets up it to 7pts. But thats with 24" range and assult weapon. So the value of all guys having krak grenades seems to be about 2-3 pts to me. Same guns has frag mode, so 2-3 points for both options

 Stormonu wrote:
Grenades are generally a much more limited resource than most other weapons and ammunition. The whole team chucking grenades just doesn’t feel right - if you watch military videos, you usually see only one or two members of a team chuck grenades (just prior to a rush) at a time. A whole squad, advancing and lobbing grenades left and right, would be extremely chaotic and likely to end up with a friendly getting hurt.

I wouldn’t be against a modified rule (1 grenade/5 models in a team) or maybe a strategm (Ready Grenades! (1 CP): All models in the unit may throw grenades this turn). But as a regular rule, no.

Plague Marines have a similar Strategem I think. I'd be down for a Strategem doing that.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Grenades are generally a much more limited resource than most other weapons and ammunition. The whole team chucking grenades just doesn’t feel right - if you watch military videos, you usually see only one or two members of a team chuck grenades (just prior to a rush) at a time. A whole squad, advancing and lobbing grenades left and right, would be extremely chaotic and likely to end up with a friendly getting hurt.

I wouldn’t be against a modified rule (1 grenade/5 models in a team) or maybe a strategm (Ready Grenades! (1 CP): All models in the unit may throw grenades this turn). But as a regular rule, no.

Plague Marines have a similar Strategem I think. I'd be down for a Strategem doing that.

I think guardsmen has a similar strategem aswell. I would like if it was a universal strategem for all factions. Not all have nades, but many do.

Yeah, roll 40 d6 shots, than count it ALL up, than roll an average of 140 dice hitting on 5+, wounding on 5+ or 6+ most likely, than the enemy rolls around 20 saves, looses 3-5 wounds and... you've run out of time for the round, count up your VP and move to the next table.

This game is allready a blunt dice roll-off. The more rolling you add, the blunter it gets.

I think perhaps dropping the damage to 2 and giving a negative modifier to the hit roll would be good as a throw is less likely to hit whatever you were throwing at than a rifle. so 5 marines in close enough range to throw would mean they either get 5 krak grenades hitting on 4's wounding on 3s doing 2 damage or they get 10 shots hitting on 3s wounding on 4s.

Doesnt seem broken but gives some tactical versatility.

1 grenade per five models I think is a good balance.
Or having grenades be one use, but that would be hard to track.

 koooaei wrote:
Yeah, roll 40 d6 shots, than count it ALL up, than roll an average of 140 dice hitting on 5+, wounding on 5+ or 6+ most likely, than the enemy rolls around 20 saves, looses 3-5 wounds and... you've run out of time for the round, count up your VP and move to the next table.

This game is allready a blunt dice roll-off. The more rolling you add, the blunter it gets.

How do you get 40 models in 6"? And they can shoot 4 shots each already with frfsrf at 12".
Playing hordes fast is a challenge for the player. It would not be playing smart to try to throw grenades with conscripts in a tournament.

Gitdakka wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Yeah, roll 40 d6 shots, than count it ALL up, than roll an average of 140 dice hitting on 5+, wounding on 5+ or 6+ most likely, than the enemy rolls around 20 saves, looses 3-5 wounds and... you've run out of time for the round, count up your VP and move to the next table.

This game is allready a blunt dice roll-off. The more rolling you add, the blunter it gets.

How do you get 40 models in 6"? And they can shoot 4 shots each already with frfsrf at 12".
Playing hordes fast is a challenge for the player. It would not be playing smart to try to throw grenades with conscripts in a tournament.

Unless you're winning and want to slow play.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Yeah, roll 40 d6 shots, than count it ALL up, than roll an average of 140 dice hitting on 5+, wounding on 5+ or 6+ most likely, than the enemy rolls around 20 saves, looses 3-5 wounds and... you've run out of time for the round, count up your VP and move to the next table.

This game is allready a blunt dice roll-off. The more rolling you add, the blunter it gets.

How do you get 40 models in 6"? And they can shoot 4 shots each already with frfsrf at 12".
Playing hordes fast is a challenge for the player. It would not be playing smart to try to throw grenades with conscripts in a tournament.

Unless you're winning and want to slow play.

Ok but that does not have anything to do with my rule idea. If someone wants to plays slow to win they can do it regardless. I think many would consider that cheating.

Gitdakka wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Yeah, roll 40 d6 shots, than count it ALL up, than roll an average of 140 dice hitting on 5+, wounding on 5+ or 6+ most likely, than the enemy rolls around 20 saves, looses 3-5 wounds and... you've run out of time for the round, count up your VP and move to the next table.

This game is allready a blunt dice roll-off. The more rolling you add, the blunter it gets.

How do you get 40 models in 6"? And they can shoot 4 shots each already with frfsrf at 12".
Playing hordes fast is a challenge for the player. It would not be playing smart to try to throw grenades with conscripts in a tournament.

Unless you're winning and want to slow play.

Ok but that does not have anything to do with my rule idea. If someone wants to plays slow to win they can do it regardless. I think many would consider that cheating.

It enables slow play far more easily than is currently available.

That's not my main objection, though-my main objection is that it's a huge power boost to those who have decent grenades (Marines of all stripes, Eldar, and... I think that's it, maybe?). If it came with a points costs for grenades, then I'd be okay with it, though I'd also then make grenades optional.

I'm guessing Vortex grenades are out of the question...