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 ImAGeek wrote:
The round bases I assume are the notched ones. You don't need them on the hexagonal bases because there's a point either side that you can use for the arcs.

You're right. Looking a bit closer I can see the notches on the sides of the base.

And here I was thinking that the Hex bases were to limit maneuvering for the flying things. ie Change one hexside facing per 2" moved or some such.

So, I've never actually bothered with using Kickstarter before. Will I be able to put a little money down, and increase that on my next paycheck? I only ask because money is tight at the moment and I wasn't certain how long the kickstarter effort will be going. If I can split a little over two pay periods it would be much easier on me to hit the sweet spot. Does it work that way? Can I do that?

You can pledge whenever with KickStarter and alter the amount any time until the campaign ends. Until the end time of the project, no money is collected and even then only if they meet their funding goal. Lego said previously that this will likely be running to early June so that it would cover 2 pay periods for most people so you have until then before money would be paid out.

KS takes your money at the end of the set time. I believe they plan it to run to the end of may/ early June so that would be when your money would be collected.

Prior to the end you can pledge as much $5Million dollar!* or as little $1 dollar! as you want and change it unlimited times untill the countdown hits 0. then you can no longer change your pledge and whatever you have pledged is collected.

*Note: pledging $5 million dollars and then canceling or changing your pledge to $1 at the end is highly frowned upon

Very interested. Please rescue me from 40k and take my money.

Awesome. I'll definitely be backing this at the sweet spot level.

I've created another thread where we can discuss the miniatures with more...candor.

 AlexHolker wrote:
The flying drones look pretty good, but would be better if either the fans were mounted above the center of gravity, or if it had at least one additional fan. Either of these would make the platform more stable, and less prone to pitching over and smashing itself into the ground.

Instability makes them more maneuverable, right? Most modern fighters need fly-by-wire to stay in the air, so why not cheapo drones? Not that I wouldn't love to see more drone designs and options.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I've created another thread where we can discuss the miniatures with more...candor.

 AlexHolker wrote:
The flying drones look pretty good, but would be better if either the fans were mounted above the center of gravity, or if it had at least one additional fan. Either of these would make the platform more stable, and less prone to pitching over and smashing itself into the ground.

Instability makes them more maneuverable, right? Most modern fighters need fly-by-wire to stay in the air, so why not cheapo drones? Not that I wouldn't love to see more drone designs and options.

"Every time you apply logic into a fantasy game, someone kills a cat girl." - Unknown.

This just gets better and better! Love those drones! If I only get time to visit one stand at Salute I'm gonna try my darnest to make it this one!

Forgive my ignorance, but how do these kickstarters work? If I don't pledge, will it still go on general sale in normal shops sometime in the future?

 Vanguard-13 wrote:

"Every time you apply logic into a fantasy game, someone kills a cat girl." - Unknown.

Win-win?


Besides, the makers of this game have repeatedly used the term "hard science fiction" to make sure we don't confuse their work about FTL natural phenomena, energy beings, mind-uploads and totally-not-psychics with "science fantasy". It's totes serial, you guys. Totes magotes.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but how do these kickstarters work? If I don't pledge, will it still go on general sale in normal shops sometime in the future?

Unless the kickstarter fails, yes, it will go on general retail sale at some point in the future. Those who back the kickstarter will get it sooner, pay less and get more for their faith in us though!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but how do these kickstarters work? If I don't pledge, will it still go on general sale in normal shops sometime in the future?

Yes, it will definitely hit retail ...unless it makes so much money that Legoburner can't help himself.

By the time we figure out what went wrong, he'll be sitting on a beach, earning twenty percent.

Thank you both.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Vanguard-13 wrote:

"Every time you apply logic into a fantasy game, someone kills a cat girl." - Unknown.

Win-win?

Besides, the makers of this game have repeatedly used the term "hard science fiction" to make sure we don't confuse their work about FTL natural phenomena, energy beings, mind-uploads and totally-not-psychics with "science fantasy". It's totes serial, you guys. Totes magotes.

Having done a Masters in Astrophysics and a PhD in nanophysics prior to writing the background to Maelstrom's Edge, I could write you a truly realistic, only based on real physics science fiction universe. But I don't think it would be nearly as much fun to have a space-based setting where you have to spend thousands of years to get between planets.

No space-based science fiction universe doesn't bend the rules of science as we currently understand it. I'm very proud of what we've created though, and I think we've presented a universe that gives a nice balance between fun factions, units and settings whilst also feeling plausible and believable.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but how do these kickstarters work? If I don't pledge, will it still go on general sale in normal shops sometime in the future?

Technically yes. However, keep in mind that the Kickstarter is to raise money to make the product launch happen in the first place. If they can't afford to make these miniatures without that fundraising, or if they can only make a few of them, then an unsuccessful campaign would mean that we'll either be seeing a much reduced product at retail or none at all.

So far legoburner and co. seem pretty confident, which is exactly what they should project to sell their project, and certainly having DakkaDakka as a platform to publicize their kickstarter is going to help them. But it's not a foregone conclusion that this or any kickstarter campaign will be a rip-roaring success. I'm not sure how they plan to structure their campaign, but doing everything in hard plastic means that stretch goals are likely to be large and few, so momentum might be an issue. I hope that as long-time gamers and cognoscenti, they have done their homework studying the successful and failed strategies of other ks campaigns. If the campaign stalls or crawls for too long, it can backslide and ultimately fail.

In short, particularly for a new company, every backer's support matters, which is why I intend to be there at the start.

 darrkespur wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Vanguard-13 wrote:

"Every time you apply logic into a fantasy game, someone kills a cat girl." - Unknown.

Win-win?

Besides, the makers of this game have repeatedly used the term "hard science fiction" to make sure we don't confuse their work about FTL natural phenomena, energy beings, mind-uploads and totally-not-psychics with "science fantasy". It's totes serial, you guys. Totes magotes.

Having done a Masters in Astrophysics and a PhD in nanophysics prior to writing the background to Maelstrom's Edge, I could write you a truly realistic, only based on real physics science fiction universe. But I don't think it would be nearly as much fun to have a space-based setting where you have to spend thousands of years to get between planets.

Isn't that what higher dimensional theoretical topology is for? The whole making a right angle to all known angles thing that facilitates a 0D "fold" to 1D, 1D "fold" to 2D, 2D "fold" to 3D transition, and therefore a 3D "fold" through the fourth dimension to instantly be anywhere else in 3D space?

 judgedoug wrote:

 darrkespur wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Vanguard-13 wrote:

"Every time you apply logic into a fantasy game, someone kills a cat girl." - Unknown.

Win-win?

Besides, the makers of this game have repeatedly used the term "hard science fiction" to make sure we don't confuse their work about FTL natural phenomena, energy beings, mind-uploads and totally-not-psychics with "science fantasy". It's totes serial, you guys. Totes magotes.

Having done a Masters in Astrophysics and a PhD in nanophysics prior to writing the background to Maelstrom's Edge, I could write you a truly realistic, only based on real physics science fiction universe. But I don't think it would be nearly as much fun to have a space-based setting where you have to spend thousands of years to get between planets.

Isn't that what higher dimensional theoretical topology is for? The whole making a right angle to all known angles thing that facilitates a 0D "fold" to 1D, 1D "fold" to 2D, 2D "fold" to 3D transition, and therefore a 3D "fold" through the fourth dimension to instantly be anywhere else in 3D space?

There's lot of lovely mathematical theorems describing different methods of higher dimensions (such as string theory), and some of them would neatly solve a lot of issues in physics. But so far the LHC has seen no evidence of additional mass to W or Z bosons that might suggest such dimensions exist, so all they are in current science is a neat mathematical idea.

We wanted to include FTL in our universe and decided to go with a combination of dark energy and extra dimensions. The resulting design imagines that there is a field of dark energy (or cybel energy, as we've called it) that normally we can't see, that is attracted to mass. Objects of large mass attract sufficient quantities of dark energy that the boundary between the dark energy dimension and realspace becomes thin enough to tunnel into. These tunnels form a web of filagreed energy stretching between nearby stars, acting as a wormhole for ships to pass through, shortening trips that would take decades to just a few days or weeks.

The larger the mass of a celestial object, the more cybel energy it attracts, and the thicker the filament it extends out towards other objects of mass. This means that the larger, more stable tunnel entrances are found around supermassive stars and black holes, and tunnels between two such objects of large mass become main thoroughfares for travel across the spiral arm. Tunnels between smaller masses are riskier, and the tunnel can become dangerously narrow towards the mid-point between the two masses, especially if there is a large mass distorting the tunnel somewhere along its length.

Entry into the cybel network requires a vast amount of energy, channelled into a precise electromagnetic wave which tears a temporary gateway into the tunnel. The larger the mass close to the entry point, the less energy required to enter, as the wall of the tunnel is weaker. This entry energy also provides the ship with sufficient momentum to travel far enough along the tunnel to enable the end-point mass to start pulling the ship towards it. Navigational control of a ship is very limited and similar to sailing upstream to the midpoint of a tunnel and then flowing downstream to the end of a tunnel.

Most ships do not have the necessary power to enter the cybel network on their own, so they rely on the use of cybel gates. These gates are space stations orbiting stars and other objects of large mass that harvest cybel energy refined directly from the tunnels. The gates are self-sustaining, using the cybel energy from the networks to open a gateway into the cybel network. The gate accelerates ships as they enter a cybel tunnel with enough momentum to emerge safely through the twin gate at the other end of the tunnel.

Cybel gates are point-to-point, linking two gates together and taking much of the danger out of cybel travel. Most pilots prefer to travel using gates - the gate will handle entry for you, performing all of the energy calculations necessary in order to deliver you safely to the gate on the other side, providing a safe transition back into real space. There may be multiple gates in a system, each heading to a different destination. As a result, a ship travelling to a system more than one node away on the network is required to exit the network at each gate. They would then head to the next gate on the route, perhaps docking to resupply and exchange information with the Comm Guild stations near each gate.

The cybel gates are built at the point where the gravitational pull of the parent mass is acceptable and yet the cybel network is still strong enough to provide enough cybel energy to facilitate an easy, stable transition. Too close to the parent mass, and the energy requirements to enter the network are low, but ships would be unable to escape the greatly magnified gravitational pull of the parent mass. Too far away, and the barrier into the cybel network is too strong, leaving the gate unable to draw enough energy to create an opening into the network. Gates are in a fixed position and do not orbit their host mass, as they need to be aligned precisely in the correct direction for travel. When the gate is closed, it is covered by an iris whose edges contain electromagnetic wave emitters similar to a cybel engine. The iris covers a pinpoint tunnel which the gate uses in order to keep a steady flow of energy into its power supply. When a ship needs to enter or exit the gate, the iris opens, at the same time tearing open an entry into the cybel tunnel.

One of the things I love about the setup of the cybel network and Maelstrom is that communication gets passed down along the cybel gates, deposited at the Comm Guild stations as ships pass through a star system. This allows information to circumvent lightspeed, but it also means that information in the Maelstrom's Edge universe is fragmented and incomplete, more like a telegraph system than the internet. And, as the Maelstrom comes closer and destroys or disrupts transport routes, the information starts to dry up or become incomplete. Whereas before you might have regular news updates from your neighbouring systems as traders passed through, now it becomes much dicier for people to move around star systems at the edge. Also, travel within a star system is still limited by conventional engines, so whilst it might take you a few days to get between star systems using the cybel network, it can take weeks or months to get between worlds in the same system, making it that much harder for people to escape the Maelstrom.

I don't suppose we could get a little sneak peak at the different kickstarter levels ahead of time? Pretty please

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
The flying drones look pretty good, but would be better if either the fans were mounted above the center of gravity, or if it had at least one additional fan. Either of these would make the platform more stable, and less prone to pitching over and smashing itself into the ground.

Instability makes them more maneuverable, right? Most modern fighters need fly-by-wire to stay in the air, so why not cheapo drones? Not that I wouldn't love to see more drone designs and options.

Negative stability does make it easier for an aircraft to move away from level flight, but only if it actually has sufficient maneuvering capability to compensate for that negative stability. It's like putting a boulder on top of a hill - the boulder's natural tendency to roll downhill makes it easier to move than if it starts off in a crater, but that doesn't help much if you're not strong or fast enough to hold it on top of the hill until you want it to move. Assuming the fans can be tilted, the drones would be able to balance themselves the same way you can balance a broom on your hand, by constantly flying the fans back and forth to keep them under the drone's center of gravity, you can't do that and keep your pitch and position stable so you can actually shoot people.

 AlexHolker wrote:
Negative stability does make it easier for an aircraft to move away from level flight, but only if it actually has sufficient maneuvering capability to compensate for that negative stability. It's like putting a boulder on top of a hill - the boulder's natural tendency to roll downhill makes it easier to move than if it starts off in a crater, but that doesn't help much if you're not strong or fast enough to hold it on top of the hill until you want it to move. Assuming the fans can be tilted, the drones would be able to balance themselves the same way you can balance a broom on your hand, by constantly flying the fans back and forth to keep them under the drone's center of gravity, you can't do that and keep your pitch and position stable so you can actually shoot people.

If that's you query then we are good - there is a big port on the back for forward thrust which also provides more aggressive pitch control

Can we have full sized drones as a (late) stretch goal?

 darrkespur wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Vanguard-13 wrote:

"Every time you apply logic into a fantasy game, someone kills a cat girl." - Unknown.

Win-win?

Besides, the makers of this game have repeatedly used the term "hard science fiction" to make sure we don't confuse their work about FTL natural phenomena, energy beings, mind-uploads and totally-not-psychics with "science fantasy". It's totes serial, you guys. Totes magotes.

Having done a Masters in Astrophysics and a PhD in nanophysics prior to writing the background to Maelstrom's Edge, I could write you a truly realistic, only based on real physics science fiction universe. But I don't think it would be nearly as much fun to have a space-based setting where you have to spend thousands of years to get between planets.

No! Please no! I can't even get into Revelation Space because the lack of FTL is so depressing! If you release a spaceship mini that's 99% fuel tank, I will cry.


I just like to poke fun at anyone who uses the term "hard science fiction".

No space-based science fiction universe doesn't bend the rules of science as we currently understand it. I'm very proud of what we've created though, and I think we've presented a universe that gives a nice balance between fun factions, units and settings whilst also feeling plausible and believable.

It does sound fun, but I won't know for sure until the novels hit paperback. *cough* Plausible and believable should never be adjectives that have anything to do with the firmness of a setting's science. It sounds like you get that, so I'm pretty optimistic.

What do you mean specifically by full sized drones? 8 drones will be in the basic set.

8 drones is not enough. There need to be more.


More.


MORE!

 legoburner wrote:
What do you mean specifically by full sized drones? 8 drones will be in the basic set.

Real drones (not minis, although I shall be having some of them too),

you could fly them round your game store/club etc to advertise the game (or just annoy people)

Don't waste Stretchgoals on Drones....

Here's a preview.

Stretchgoal 1: More Dakka
Stretchgoal 2: More Dakka!
Stretchgoal 3: More Dakka!!
Stretchgoal 4: More Dakka!!!
Stretchgoal 5: Enough Dakka?

 darrkespur wrote:

These tunnels form a web of filagreed energy stretching between nearby stars, acting as a wormhole for ships to pass through, shortening trips that would take decades to just a few days or weeks.

Mwaha! You answered my earlier spoiler question!

Entry into the cybel network requires a vast amount of energy, channelled into a precise electromagnetic wave which tears a temporary gateway into the tunnel. The larger the mass close to the entry point, the less energy required to enter, as the wall of the tunnel is weaker. This entry energy also provides the ship with sufficient momentum to travel far enough along the tunnel to enable the end-point mass to start pulling the ship towards it. Navigational control of a ship is very limited and similar to sailing upstream to the midpoint of a tunnel and then flowing downstream to the end of a tunnel.

Most ships do not have the necessary power to enter the cybel network on their own, so they rely on the use of cybel gates. These gates are space stations orbiting stars and other objects of large mass that harvest cybel energy refined directly from the tunnels.

Cybel gates are point-to-point, linking two gates together and taking much of the danger out of cybel travel. Most pilots prefer to travel using gates - the gate will handle entry for you, performing all of the energy calculations necessary in order to deliver you safely to the gate on the other side, providing a safe transition back into real space. There may be multiple gates in a system, each heading to a different destination.

Reading between the lines here, are there some ships flying around with incredibly powerful engines that daring commanders have used to chart the cybel tunnels prior to gates having been created in systems? Will we see pirating groups who use dangerous lesser known or more unstable routes for their own ends? Is there a possibility of rogue elements of societies setting up secret gate stations in places like asteroid or ice mining belts, possibly deep cover military groups or black project science initiatives who have reason to use secretive often dangerous tunnels in the cybel network that normally would never even be charted on a map?

They would then head to the next gate on the route, perhaps docking to resupply and exchange information with the Comm Guild stations near each gate.

I really love the idea of a Comm guild. communications and travel experts wold be incredibly powerful entities in a vast universe due to having a lot of control on the flow of information. I liken it to Commstar in the battletech universe or "the Guild" in Herberts Dune series. Love the idea of groups like this.

When the gate is closed, it is covered by an iris whose edges contain electromagnetic wave emitters similar to a cybel engine. The iris covers a pinpoint tunnel which the gate uses in order to keep a steady flow of energy into its power supply. When a ship needs to enter or exit the gate, the iris opens, at the same time tearing open an entry into the cybel tunnel.

Do aliens also use these gates or is it just a human continuum sort of thing? Can access be restricted on the gate by the organization who controls it if there is need, for instance criminals escaping, a military coup or even political pressure on trade routes? Would there ever be a case where someone in a system attempted to destroy their own gates, possibly a sovereign system first style movement, secessionists, or an act of war, maybe by one of the alien groups? Do the Comm guild retain any military might or defensive capabilities
to keep gates safe? Also, could stealth ships pass through a gate at the same time it's exposed for regular traffic? How big a hole are we talking here, like big enough for multiple ships at once? A Fleet?

One of the things I love about the setup of the cybel network and Maelstrom is that communication gets passed down along the cybel gates, deposited at the Comm Guild stations as ships pass through a star system. This allows information to circumvent lightspeed, but it also means that information in the Maelstrom's Edge universe is fragmented and incomplete, more like a telegraph system than the internet. And, as the Maelstrom comes closer and destroys or disrupts transport routes, the information starts to dry up or become incomplete. Whereas before you might have regular news updates from your neighbouring systems as traders passed through, now it becomes much dicier for people to move around star systems at the edge. Also, travel within a star system is still limited by conventional engines, so whilst it might take you a few days to get between star systems using the cybel network, it can take weeks or months to get between worlds in the same system, making it that much harder for people to escape the Maelstrom.

Sorry for all the questions. You gave me too much info at one time and my head is exploding.

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:
Reading between the lines here, are there some ships flying around with incredibly powerful engines that daring commanders have used to chart the cybel tunnels prior to gates having been created in systems? Will we see pirating groups who use dangerous lesser known or more unstable routes for their own ends? Is there a possibility of rogue elements of societies setting up secret gate stations in places like asteroid or ice mining belts, possibly deep cover military groups or black project science initiatives who have reason to use secretive often dangerous tunnels in the cybel network that normally would never even be charted on a map?

I'd like to explore many of those ideas in the future, given the chance. We see this universe setup as being a great sandbox for creating exactly those kind of scenarios. Pirates, mercenaries, exploration of worlds on the verge of destruction, battles over precious resources, secret locations and conspiracies, as a writer, I get very excited about working in a universe like that!

I really love the idea of a Comm guild. Communications and travel experts would be incredibly powerful entities in a vast universe due to having a lot of control on the flow of information. I liken it to Commstar in the battletech universe or "the Guild" in Herberts Dune series. Love the idea of groups like this.

Do aliens also use these gates or is it just a human continuum sort of thing? Can access be restricted on the gate by the organization who controls it if there is need, for instance criminals escaping, a military coup or even political pressure on trade routes? Would there ever be a case where someone in a system attempted to destroy their own gates, possibly a sovereign system first style movement, secessionists, or an act of war, maybe by one of the alien groups? Do the Comm guild retain any military might or defensive capabilities
to keep gates safe? Also, could stealth ships pass through a gate at the same time it's exposed for regular traffic? How big a hole are we talking here, like big enough for multiple ships at once? A Fleet?

The gates can absolutely be controlled - that's where the Comm Guild get their power, as they control many of the gates (although their overall hold is slipping with the disruption from the Maelstrom). They are very much in the background at the moment as we are focusing on a single star system for the first books (Zycanthus), but we're going to have a lot of fun with them later I hope!

Maelstrom's Edge is set across the Spiral Arm of the galaxy, which is the part of the galaxy that humanity has settled and terraformed over thousands of years. There are aliens, like the Angels and others, but they are the minority in this part of the galaxy. But they too use the cybel network - it's the only way to get between stars, unless you want to schlep for centuries under traditional power. You can take larger ships or fleets through cybel tunnels, but the larger the ship that wants to come through, the more energy required to get through. Many of the tunnels between smaller stars can only take smaller ships, so big ships need to take certain routes if they are to pass through. Stealth ships can sort of be a thing (like the Karist ark in the opening of the novel) by entering realspace early, before the gate, but that kind of behaviour is dangerous! (Flying through cybel space ain't like dusting crops! )

There are all kinds of interesting politics to do with the gates, especially with the Maelstrom involved (more about the relationship between the Maelstrom and cybel tunnels soon). The Maelstrom travels much more quickly down the cybel tunnels than it does in realspace, and even more so when the gate to the tunnel is opened. It's also drawn by large explosions of cybel energy. So the Maelstrom can be encouraged to move in certain directions by opening gates and destroying cybel refineries (as the processed energy from the tunnels powers ship engines and industry), or it can be slowed by keeping the gates closed or destroying them. There's loads of

Sorry for all the questions. You gave me too much info at one time and my head is exploding.

No problem! I love it when people get interested in this sort of thing!