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 master of ordinance wrote:
Well, Escher used to be THE plasma gang so chemicals is not too far removed from the fluff.

How so? They had one model with a heavy plasma gun and one with a plasma pistol, but so did Van Saar. Looking at the "old Underhive" rulebook, Delaque also had plasma guns and heavy plasma guns in their weapon lists. Nothing in their background mentioned anything about any Houses having a preference for different weapon types.

Oh yeah, talking of heavy wepons and weird fluff disconnects, I always wondered how the Escher managed to make a compact, portable heavy plasma gun that could be used by a single operator without power armour or a carriage. They should have sold the design back to the Adeptus Mechanicus and supplanted one of the Spire Houses already.
I hope they explain this or just drop heavy wepons in gangs entirely. At least for starting gangs. Would be nice if a Heavy could recruit a Juve "loader" who could help them shove a gun carriage around and gain exp. doing so.

I also think the best thing GW could do with these models is make rules that allow you to take an Underhive Gang detachment in 40k.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Oh yeah, talking of heavy wepons and weird fluff disconnects, I always wondered how the Escher managed to make a compact, portable heavy plasma gun that could be used by a single operator without power armour or a carriage. They should have sold the design back to the Adeptus Mechanicus and supplanted one of the Spire Houses already.
I hope they explain this or just drop heavy wepons in gangs entirely. At least for starting gangs. Would be nice if a Heavy could recruit a Juve "loader" who could help them shove a gun carriage around and gain exp. doing so.

I can't remember the timings; had the 2nd edition Imperial Guard range started coming out by then? With their carriage-mounted heavy weapons with two crew? I assumed that the weapons used by gangs were less reliable (well of course they were - I never failed an ammo roll with any of my Guard), of lighter and thus shoddier construction, had lower ammunition capacities and were missing assorted safety features present on the military equipment (like prayers and holy unguents, obviously). Or perhaps some were advanced models suitable for short manufacturing runs for customers like the Inquisition and the Necromundan PDF, but not able to be manufactured in the billions required for the Guard.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I also think the best thing GW could do with these models is make rules that allow you to take an Underhive Gang detachment in 40k.

Oh you know that'll happen quicksmart. They'd be mad not to allow cross-compatibility.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Oh you know that'll happen quicksmart. They'd be mad not to allow cross-compatibility.

I mean, you say that like we're talking about a company with no track record of making dumb decisions.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Oh yeah, talking of heavy wepons and weird fluff disconnects, I always wondered how the Escher managed to make a compact, portable heavy plasma gun that could be used by a single operator without power armour or a carriage. They should have sold the design back to the Adeptus Mechanicus and supplanted one of the Spire Houses already.
I hope they explain this or just drop heavy wepons in gangs entirely. At least for starting gangs. Would be nice if a Heavy could recruit a Juve "loader" who could help them shove a gun carriage around and gain exp. doing so.

Probably because at the time anyone could carry a heavy weapon and use it in that way.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I also think the best thing GW could do with these models is make rules that allow you to take an Underhive Gang detachment in 40k.

Oh you know that'll happen quicksmart. They'd be mad not to allow cross-compatibility.

Didn't they do that with the original Necromunda? I seem to remember that was a thing. I know they did it with original WHQ and WFB.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Oh yeah, talking of heavy wepons and weird fluff disconnects, I always wondered how the Escher managed to make a compact, portable heavy plasma gun that could be used by a single operator without power armour or a carriage. They should have sold the design back to the Adeptus Mechanicus and supplanted one of the Spire Houses already.
I hope they explain this or just drop heavy wepons in gangs entirely. At least for starting gangs. Would be nice if a Heavy could recruit a Juve "loader" who could help them shove a gun carriage around and gain exp. doing so.

I can't remember the timings; had the 2nd edition Imperial Guard range started coming out by then? With their carriage-mounted heavy weapons with two crew? I assumed that the weapons used by gangs were less reliable (well of course they were - I never failed an ammo roll with any of my Guard), of lighter and thus shoddier construction, had lower ammunition capacities and were missing assorted safety features present on the military equipment (like prayers and holy unguents, obviously). Or perhaps some were advanced models suitable for short manufacturing runs for customers like the Inquisition and the Necromundan PDF, but not able to be manufactured in the billions required for the Guard.

Yes, 2nd ed metal Guard with gun carriages came before Necromunda. Thile I don't recall any official explanation, I don't find it difficult to rationalize the difference in style.

The Imperial Guard is focused on a defensive role, in which a stable firing platform benefits the performance of heavy weapons, while it's all about redundancy and having plenty of soldiers to take over in case the gunner gets shot, so weapon teams are a thing.

Whereas gangers are in it for themselves, rely on themselves and may have to do a fair bit of traveling through narrow passageways and up and down ladders, so they need something a single guy can carry and operate.

A bit like light and heavy machine guns. The gun's the same, but the latter is mounted for stability and the former kept light for mobility.

Have they said anything about the Genesteeler cults being added to this? To me at least that seems like a natural fit, even if you have to change the fluff a little.

Somewhere in this thread there's mention of a "Hive Secundus" setting, which seems to include possible genestealer infestation.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I also think the best thing GW could do with these models is make rules that allow you to take an Underhive Gang detachment in 40k.

Oh you know that'll happen quicksmart. They'd be mad not to allow cross-compatibility.

That was why they added the Hive Militias to the army lists in the Armageddon mini-codex wasn't it?

Include all of your Necromunda models in mass battles.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Somewhere in this thread there's mention of a "Hive Secundus" setting, which seems to include possible genestealer infestation.

Interesting. While I am unaware of any "hive secundus", Armageddon's secundus region houses multiple hive cities:

Hades Hive
Hive Helsreach
Hive Infernus
Hive Acheron
Hive Tartarus

None of which have been known to contain a genestealer infestation that I know of. Given how big Armageddon is & the scale of conflict taking place there, its not impossible however that a genestealer infestation might exist somewhere within one of these hive cities.


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alphaecho wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I also think the best thing GW could do with these models is make rules that allow you to take an Underhive Gang detachment in 40k.

Oh you know that'll happen quicksmart. They'd be mad not to allow cross-compatibility.

That was why they added the Hive Militias to the army lists in the Armageddon mini-codex wasn't it?

Include all of your Necromunda models in mass battles.

I'm really hoping they update the rules for hive gangers to be included in 8th edition 40k. Hive gangs have played a massive role on Armageddon & it would be cool if they could be included in Steel Legion armies.

There's a hive Primus, stands to reason there's a hive Secundus on Necromunda

 Commissar Benny wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Somewhere in this thread there's mention of a "Hive Secundus" setting, which seems to include possible genestealer infestation.

Interesting. While I am unaware of any "hive secundus", Armageddon's secundus region houses multiple hive cities:

Hades Hive
Hive Helsreach
Hive Infernus
Hive Acheron
Hive Tartarus

None of which have been known to contain a genestealer infestation that I know of. Given how big Armageddon is & the scale of conflict taking place there, its not impossible however that a genestealer infestation might exist somewhere within one of these hive cities.

Necromunda's Hive Secundus. Not Armageddon's.

 Albertorius wrote:
Hive Secundus. Not Armageddon's.

My mistake. It seems secundus is used in both IP's. Seems like a lot of the hive gang stuff on Armageddon was inspired by Necromunda.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Hive Secundus. Not Armageddon's.

My mistake. It seems secundus is used in both IP's. Seems like a lot of the hive gang stuff on Armageddon was inspired by Necromunda.

Oh, it most certainly was, one way or another ^_^

I never knew Eschwer were supposed to be plasma, I associated Van Saar with that. Same with chem weapons.

I'm not against some tinkering with the background *. The masks on the Goliath for example are an okay idea -that keeps with their history of being from the most polluted parts of the regular hive- done brilliantly going by the masks shown so far. GW has a tendency overdo it and offer zero bare heads for them, despite some Goliath players probably wanting to keep with the old "we Goliaths are STRONK, he who can't breathe our smog is WEAK" background/aesthetic. They used to pride themselves on their toughness without the need for rebreathers and filters. Reivers having bare/masked/fully helmeted heads has me hopeful, though.

Orlocks need something more interesting real bad and the rest has me curious. Sam Fisher-like Delaque or will they get hats and tommy guns to go with their trenchcoats? Ratskins with gear similiar to Horizon's Nora, maybe? Will "our tech is simply manufactured to a higher standard" get bulky, low-tech exoskeletons to go with their exosuits, like Infinity has? The crazy weapons on the Goliath have my mind racing.


*And as chance has it I could REALLY use females with rebreathers and vials and stuff, my Nurgle traitors need "Poison Ivy" assassins/death cultists. However, I won't ever not play Escher without a normal flamer or with only plasma guns just because that's what their sprues/rules offer.

 guardpiper wrote:
Have they said anything about the Genesteeler cults being added to this? To me at least that seems like a natural fit, even if you have to change the fluff a little.

Chaos cults scale better, all the way down to "that weirdo who crossed himself twice with blood after he killed a guy." You get chaos worshipers before you get Bloodletters, but you get Genestealers before you get genestealer cults.

Am I the only one that thinks/wishes they would simplify a lot of things by bringing back sustained fire dice?

Not really sure how that simplifies vs a D3

 Commissar Benny wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Hive Secundus. Not Armageddon's.

My mistake. It seems secundus is used in both IP's. Seems like a lot of the hive gang stuff on Armageddon was inspired by Necromunda.

Not sure "IP" is exactly what you mean (Tatooine and Hoth aren't different IPs, either ), but on Armageddon, Primus and Secundus are the major continents (with Secundus being the one that got most of the focus in the story of the first and second wars; basically western Russia rotated somewhat).

Some of the hives mentioned on Necromunda are:

Primus / the Palatine
Secundus
Trazior (also known as the Three Sisters)
Acropolis
The Temenos
Quinspirus
The Skull

Though the fluff also mentions that Necromunda is made up of about a thousand hive clusters of varying size, so it can't be too difficult to find a place to let a chaos cult or some other gang of snowflakes to run amok.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I also think the best thing GW could do with these models is make rules that allow you to take an Underhive Gang detachment in 40k.

Oh you know that'll happen quicksmart. They'd be mad not to allow cross-compatibility.

Didn't they do that with the original Necromunda? I seem to remember that was a thing. I know they did it with original WHQ and WFB.

Isn't that like the penal legion? Unskilled criminal types seem to fit the bill well. Gang leader/commissar.

There were no rules specifically for using Necromunda models in 2nd edition 40k, although gangers could have been used as Fratersi Militia in Sisters of Battle armies, and if you had enough gangers with lasguns, you could have used them as Imperial Guard (as I did, thanks to the handy weapons sprue!). There was a unit entry for Armageddon hive gangs as part of Codex: Armageddon for 3rd edition, I think.

I think I must have been thinking of the Armaggeddon Hive Gang rules.

Never mind.

Yes. They're both in Segmentum Solar. Armageddon is spinwards, "north-east" along the same spiral arm as Earth, near the border with Ultima Segmentum. Necromunda is widdershins, "south" of Earth, again in the same spiral arm. It's closer (in a 2D projection, at least) to Earth, and is a much older colony.

What does it have to do with Necromunda? Someone asked about the possibility of genestealer cults in new Necromunda, I mentioned the previous rumours about "Hive Secundus", Commissar Benny mistook that for a reference to the Secundus continent on Armageddon. Simples.

Perhaps the reason gangers weren't included in 40K is because they were already present. In Space Marine by Ian Watson the Imperial Fists recruited new members from Necromunda gangs. Gangers would also join the Guard or PDF. Paint a gang tattoo on your Space Marine and bam, you have a ganger. It would make no sense for the Imperial forces to transport untrained gangs to warzones and dump them there to cause havoc among both sides.

I always liked how Watson portrayed Marines with deep psychological flaws, with their indoctrination into worshiping the emperor being the thin veneer that prevented them turning completely psychopathic. This was before the fluff neutered them into noble, and very, very boring, warrior monks. A life brought up in a hive would certainly leave profound psychological scars that would only be exacerbated by being turned into a freak.

Gangers were used in 40k. There were lists that were tailored around the used of hodge-podge units.. specifically Necromunda gangers and OOP characters. Planetary Defense Force is the one that immediately springs to mind. The article had pictures I think of Orlock, Goliath, and a few of Schaeffer's Last Chancers. I may be wrong but I am pretty sure when Cityfight came out they also ran a bit on using Necromunda themed forces.