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And another domino falls.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/21/media/john-lasseter-leave-of-absence-disney/index.html
Still related to the entertainment industry, but Disney is about as big as it gets in the corporate world, too.

 kronk wrote:
We don't know that gak isn't going down in the business world, do we? These aren't necessarily high profile people (with notable exceptions). Can you name the CEO and officers of Goodyear Tire or Target without using google or wiki-pedia? It's in the business' best interests to keep gak quiet so they don't lose customers/clients. If a CEO, VP, whatever is asked to step down due to gross misconduct (sleeping with a secretary, quid pro quo, hitting on the intern), they may issue a statement like "Bob is leaving the company to pursue other options", throw some $$$ at the victim, and move on.

If that is what's happening, it's a vast improvement over the state of play a couple of months ago, when it was standard for the company to throw a pile of money at the woman, and let the predator keep his job.


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 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I'm not sure it does though. It sort of feels like spectacle. Some people get fired, others take their place. Are they really any better? It really needs a whole cultural paradigm shift. Maybe this is a sign of that and the individuals don't really matter anyway.

That's what I'm hoping is happening. Personally, I don't care that much if each individual gets a full public shaming. What I want is to move society forward, to a point where women feel they can come forward without being attacked, and that their stories will be believed. And on that level we've made amazing ground.

I mean, sure Roy Moore might still win his senate seat, but that's just partisan politics, Charles Manson could probably win in Alabama with an R next to his name. What's amazing is that even with such a strong partisan reason to deny the accusations, many people, including Moore supporters, are still saying they believe the women. Compare that to a year ago, when throughout the campaign people fought to get the accusations against Trump put in the spotlight and could not do it, until they finally got it to put in the national media with the Access Hollywood video. Even then many people were comfortable claiming that all those women with similar stories must be lying. That isn't possible now, and that's a great change, if we can sustain it.

I wouldn't count on that, there's still a large chunk who will protect their party members no matter how young of a girl they need to insult and call liars and claim those 14 year old girls seduced them.

it's amazing how many people are actually saying, better a pedophile than a democrat. and it's no surprise which one the pres endorsed.

sirlynchmob wrote:
it's amazing how many people are actually saying, better a pedophile than a democrat. and it's no surprise which one the pres endorsed.

Yeah, but in saying 'okay he's a pedophile but at least he's not a Democrat'... that is actually a progress of a kind. Because at least with that we've seen people accept the reality that the women aren't all lying.

A year ago, that didn't happen. Back then, there were 17 women who all had very believable stories, all showing very similar patterns of behaviour against Trump, and then we got a video of Trump bragging about doing exactly what the accuser's claimed... and the response was denial. That Trump's brag was locker room talk, and the women we all liars.

At least now we've got to a point where at least some people will not pretend that all those women must liars. And it's cost Moore enough votes that he might lose despite being a Republican in Alabama.

Sure, the flip side is that Trump and some others like him still think there's scope to call all those women liars, but you'd expect that.

Jimmy O'Keefe, purveyor of edited tapes, tried to set up a sting of the reporters who broke the story. This is a good story because it emphasizes just how strong the reporting about Roy Moore actually is, and how Project Veritas really is... well, I think everyone knows what their deal is.

But Veritas means truth in Latin! You can't lie if you're using Latin!

 Ouze wrote:
Jimmy O'Keefe, purveyor of edited tapes, tried to set up a sting of the reporters who broke the story. This is a good story because it emphasizes just how strong the reporting about Roy Moore actually is, and how Project Veritas really is... well, I think everyone knows what their deal is.

So women do lie about sexual misconduct! /S





**** For those who do not know the /S means End Sarcasm. This comment was sarcastic and meant to point out the ridiculousness of the situation being reported on.

 Easy E wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Jimmy O'Keefe, purveyor of edited tapes, tried to set up a sting of the reporters who broke the story. This is a good story because it emphasizes just how strong the reporting about Roy Moore actually is, and how Project Veritas really is... well, I think everyone knows what their deal is.

So women do lie about sexual misconduct! /S





**** For those who do not know the /S means End Sarcasm. This comment was sarcastic and meant to point out the ridiculousness of the situation being reported on.

I understood before you're disclaimer. Good job. I'm chuckling

Yeah, Breitbart took a shot at undermining the WaPo article, and all their research managed to do was reveal that the WaPo talked the women in to making their complaints against Moore public... which just happened to support exactly what WaPo had reported. And now Project Veritas set out to undermine WaPo, and all they managed to prove was that WaPo has strong vetting standards that quickly identified a dishonest claim against Moore. These guys should probably start to figure out the pattern here.



Anyhow, there's been another serial abuser revealed, this time in Australia. It's Don Burke, who was a celebrity gardener in the 90s. He was a household name and had a high rated prime time show. I can't really explain how a gardener could be that famous, it was just a thing that everyone accepted, this guy would tell you what fertiliser was best for roses and it was on in prime time and lots of people watched it. Honestly its pretty hard to explain a lot about Australia in the 90s.

Anyhow, investigative work by a couple of media sources have released some stories in which a lot of women have no come forward with lots of charges of sexual harassment, and a few cases of sexual assault. On top of that there's also been a whole lot of charges of abuse suffered by both men and women, indicating the guy wasn't so much a predator as just an all purpose jerk who did horrible things to everyone.

Two people who were CEOs Channel 9, his employer, said his behaviour was known but there wasn't anything they could do. They didn't say it, of course, but reality is it was just unthinkable to fire a man who was making the station loads of money. So that's a pretty common thread to most of the cases that are now being revealed - these are men who were protected as long as they were making everyone lots of money.

Burke's defense is something old and something new. He came out and said admitted he had lots of regrets but also this is a 'witchhunt', so that's the same as about half the men have said when confronted - 'I regret this happened but it didn't happen'. But on top of that he also said he has 'undiagnosed Asperger's'. Various spokespeople for many autism groups have told Burke to go feth himself, although disappointingly they didn't use those exact words.

So Kevin Spacey might have a contender for worst apology.

Happened a few days ago, but I thought it was a unique twist that maybe needed some attention.

Another member of Congress ended up being apart of these sexual scandals, but as a victim. Seems someone he had seen in the past decided to post some revenge porn of him on Twitter.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/23/politics/joe-barton-image-revenge-porn/index.html

Not sure why this dude is apologizing. It doesn't seem like he did anything wrong.

 Ouze wrote:
Not sure why this dude is apologizing. It doesn't seem like he did anything wrong.

Better to be sorry than sorry?

 Ouze wrote:
Not sure why this dude is apologizing. It doesn't seem like he did anything wrong

Barton runs on a strong family values, socially conservative platform. So he's a pretty clear hypocrite for having affairs with a string of women, some of which he sent that nude picture, as well as video of him masturbating. That kind of thing used to be a big issue for family values politicians, but maybe it isn't now, I don't know. It certainly seems smart to apologise and minimise the risk of damage.

That said, they were all consenting relationships, and none of them were employees, so its really none of our business.

The lady who shared the image should probably be in a fair bit of trouble, though.

 sebster wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
it's amazing how many people are actually saying, better a pedophile than a democrat. and it's no surprise which one the pres endorsed.

Yeah, but in saying 'okay he's a pedophile but at least he's not a Democrat'... that is actually a progress of a kind. Because at least with that we've seen people accept the reality that the women aren't all lying.

A year ago, that didn't happen. Back then, there were 17 women who all had very believable stories, all showing very similar patterns of behaviour against Trump, and then we got a video of Trump bragging about doing exactly what the accuser's claimed... and the response was denial. That Trump's brag was locker room talk, and the women we all liars.

At least now we've got to a point where at least some people will not pretend that all those women must liars. And it's cost Moore enough votes that he might lose despite being a Republican in Alabama.

Sure, the flip side is that Trump and some others like him still think there's scope to call all those women liars, but you'd expect that.

I think the country lost the thread as soon as it wandered into the political arena and I think the end of #MeToo is in sight. Attempting to oust a congressman, especially powerful ones like Franken and Conyers, provoked a completely different reaction from ousting bankable producers and actors. The difference in the discussion about politicians is their public good in relation to their perceived moral failings. Conyers' civil rights credentials and voting record are being used as a counter weight against his allegations in the same way Moore's known conservative position is being used as an absolution for his alleged proclivities. You didn't see Spacey or Weinstein's charitable donations or artistic merit as an argument for them to retain wealth and position.

Dave Chappelle's bit on Bill Cosby seems sadly prescient now.

I saw this article and had to think about the discussion in this thread about the concept of rape culture in Western society and Peregrine's point about victim blaming:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42149912

Pamplona 'wolf pack' gang rape trial angers Spain
Feminists and legal observers in Spain have expressed outrage at what they see as "patriarchal justice" during the trial of five men accused of gang raping an 18-year-old woman during Pamplona's San Fermín bull-running festival in 2016.

The judge, who will consider his verdict after Tuesday's final hearing, has come under fire over his decisions to allow evidence to be presented about the alleged victim's personal life and character, while not permitting the inclusion of texted conversations between the accused in which they apparently discuss plans to rape women.

Searching through conversations in the WhatsApp group called "La manada", or "wolf pack", to which the men belonged, police investigators came across an incident in which video showed some of the individuals apparently abusing another woman, who seemed to be unconscious.
Conversations prior to their journey from Seville to Pamplona mention the need to procure date rape drugs and ropes, "because when we get there, we'll want to rape everything we set eyes on".

A private detective's report, commissioned by one of the accused, was compiled by spying on the alleged victim in the aftermath of the alleged attack, including her activity on social media and a holiday with friends. Two weeks into the trial, the defence decided to withdraw the file as evidence.

The strategy of the defence has been based on an attempt to show that the woman consented to group sex with all five of them. They are men in their late 20s, including a Civil Guard police officer who is also accused of stealing the female student's mobile phone immediately after the incident. If found guilty, the men face prison terms of up to 25 years.

...

Of course this doesn't just happen in Spain (neither the attack part or the curious decisions/comments by judges). It might not neatly fit inside the topic, but I thought it worth mentioning.

 sebster wrote:
Anyhow, there's been another serial abuser revealed, this time in Australia. It's Don Burke, who was a celebrity gardener in the 90s. He was a household name and had a high rated prime time show. I can't really explain how a gardener could be that famous, it was just a thing that everyone accepted, this guy would tell you what fertiliser was best for roses and it was on in prime time and lots of people watched it. Honestly its pretty hard to explain a lot about Australia in the 90s.

No need to explain, the Netherlands went through the famous gardener phase around the early 2000's, including the guy turning out to be a sexual harasser/assaulter as well.

 avantgarde wrote:
I think the country lost the thread as soon as it wandered into the political arena and I think the end of #MeToo is in sight. Attempting to oust a congressman, especially powerful ones like Franken and Conyers, provoked a completely different reaction from ousting bankable producers and actors. The difference in the discussion about politicians is their public good in relation to their perceived moral failings. Conyers' civil rights credentials and voting record are being used as a counter weight against his allegations in the same way Moore's known conservative position is being used as an absolution for his alleged proclivities. You didn't see Spacey or Weinstein's charitable donations or artistic merit as an argument for them to retain wealth and position.

Yeah, some Republicans spoke out against Moore, but others rallied around him including the President. At the same time some Democrats spoke out against Conyers and Franken, but now the leadership has rallied around them. In both cases there's a clear political motivation, Republicans giving up Moore would mean losing the Alabama special election, while Democrats forcing out Conyers would mean he would have his replacement picked by a Republican governor.

But the real result, I think, is that the total social condemnation that seemed so strong just a month ago is now disappearing very quickly, and that's a wasted opportunity to change the culture so this kind of thing does not keep happening.


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 Disciple of Fate wrote:
No need to explain, the Netherlands went through the famous gardener phase around the early 2000's, including the guy turning out to be a sexual harasser/assaulter as well.

That is so weird. I mean, if anyone ever wrote a book about a man who became really famous for gardening, and then used that fame to cover up sex assaults on women, I would think that book was an absurd comedy, and probably a little too silly to be funny.

But now it turns out its happened not once but twice around the world. This is a weird planet.

Matt Lauer, a pretty big named "Journalist" and TV host got canned suddenly by NBC.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/11/29/nbc_news_fires_matt_lauer_for_inappropriate_sexual_behavior_in_the_workplace.html

That was very sudden and quick.

 Easy E wrote:
Matt Lauer, a pretty big named "Journalist" and TV host got canned suddenly by NBC.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/11/29/nbc_news_fires_matt_lauer_for_inappropriate_sexual_behavior_in_the_workplace.html

That was very sudden and quick.

The news is sudden, from what I've read they've been keeping this on the low low while they were investigating it.

We should have a running tally going, of movie stars, media personalities, and government officials.

Wow... didn't see that one coming.

I thought he was one of those "good eggs" in the industry... ala, Jake Tapper and Anderson Cooper.


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 djones520 wrote:

We should have a running tally going, of movie stars, media personalities, and government officials.

You mean like... a Dead Pool?



EDIT: looks like the accusation is more severe... sexual assault, with reasons to believe that this wasn't an isolated event (if that even matters...):
https://pagesix.com/2017/11/29/matt-lauer-allegedly-sexually-assaulted-female-staffer-during-olympics/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow

Vegas should start running odds on who will be accused next.



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Damn. I would not have put money on Garrison F-ing Keillor

Minnesota Public Radio said Wednesday it was severing all business ties with Garrison Keillor, the creator and retired host of “A Prairie Home Companion” after allegations of “inappropriate behavior with an individual who worked with him.”

Over four decades, Mr. Keillor, 75, had created a financial juggernaut for the radio network with his weekly broadcast of songs, skits and tales of his fictional hometown Lake Wobegon, along with related books, recordings and other products.

In a statement he provided to The New York Times, Mr. Keillor said, “I’ve been fired over a story that I think is more interesting and more complicated than the version M.P.R. heard. Most stories are.”

Effective immediately, M.P.R. said, it will no longer distribute and broadcast Mr. Keillor’s remaining programs, “The Writer’s Almanac” and “The Best of A Prairie Home Companion Hosted by Garrison Keillor.”

Yeah, Public Radio has been getting hammered lately. The President, their main news director, and now Keilor. I guess NPR has just as toxic of a culture of Sexual Harassment as FOX news does!

Prepare for even more Whataboutism!

Edit: The Main man behind the DC Tv-universe (Supergilr, Legnds of Tomorrow, Arrow, and the Flash) just got fired too.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/warner-bros-sexual-harassment-andrew-kreisberg-1202612522/

 kronk wrote:
Vegas should start running odds on who will be accused next.

Funny you mention that

 sebster wrote:

 avantgarde wrote:
I think the country lost the thread as soon as it wandered into the political arena and I think the end of #MeToo is in sight. Attempting to oust a congressman, especially powerful ones like Franken and Conyers, provoked a completely different reaction from ousting bankable producers and actors. The difference in the discussion about politicians is their public good in relation to their perceived moral failings. Conyers' civil rights credentials and voting record are being used as a counter weight against his allegations in the same way Moore's known conservative position is being used as an absolution for his alleged proclivities. You didn't see Spacey or Weinstein's charitable donations or artistic merit as an argument for them to retain wealth and position.

Yeah, some Republicans spoke out against Moore, but others rallied around him including the President. At the same time some Democrats spoke out against Conyers and Franken, but now the leadership has rallied around them. In both cases there's a clear political motivation, Republicans giving up Moore would mean losing the Alabama special election, while Democrats forcing out Conyers would mean he would have his replacement picked by a Republican governor.

But the real result, I think, is that the total social condemnation that seemed so strong just a month ago is now disappearing very quickly, and that's a wasted opportunity to change the culture so this kind of thing does not keep happening.

I think if Moore loses the election it will send a strong message that standing by such an individual will damage the party's image while generating no actual gain. What I'm surprised by is how the GOP apparently doesn't see that a successful Moore will lead to them being labelled as 'the party of sexual harassment' in the imminent election cycle. Americans have short memories, but not that short. I can already see the slogan; "'R' stands for 'Rapist'"

I think any possible response I have would stray far too into the 'American Politics ban'. Suffice to say, I'm remain unconvinced all of the above would actually matter.

DC-wise, it seems at the least, the situation looks like it has actively pulled the female cast closer together. I think there might actually be a positive change in Warner Brothers, at least, in the future.

Plus, of course, Gal Gadot's statement on the film side of things. (has there been any response on that yet?)

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Vegas should start running odds on who will be accused next.

Funny you mention that

Spoiler:

How dare you.

Vin Scully is a national treasure(to MLB fans), sir.

I will say that one thing that worries me is that we've already seen one person willing to sacrifice their integrity in order to make a false accusation solely for the purpose of trying to get a newspaper into trouble. With the next election season getting closer, I worry how many people might decide it's worth giving up their personal honor in order to do the same to a politician they don't like. Is the story about the little boy who cried "wolf" not taught to people anymore?

That’s why people do vetting on the boy, to see if there is a wolf

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I will say that one thing that worries me is that we've already seen one person willing to sacrifice their integrity in order to make a false accusation solely for the purpose of trying to get a newspaper into trouble. With the next election season getting closer, I worry how many people might decide it's worth giving up their personal honor in order to do the same to a politician they don't like. Is the story about the little boy who cried "wolf" not taught to people anymore?

If anything the story has shown that proper vetting is worth the effort on the part of media outlets, which I find encouraging. Certainly I respect WaPo a bit more now, though I've always found they are good about factual references.

People already jump to calling accusers liars. I doubt that stunt will really change much of anything.

sebster wrote:

 avantgarde wrote:
I think the country lost the thread as soon as it wandered into the political arena and I think the end of #MeToo is in sight. Attempting to oust a congressman, especially powerful ones like Franken and Conyers, provoked a completely different reaction from ousting bankable producers and actors. The difference in the discussion about politicians is their public good in relation to their perceived moral failings. Conyers' civil rights credentials and voting record are being used as a counter weight against his allegations in the same way Moore's known conservative position is being used as an absolution for his alleged proclivities. You didn't see Spacey or Weinstein's charitable donations or artistic merit as an argument for them to retain wealth and position.

Yeah, some Republicans spoke out against Moore, but others rallied around him including the President. At the same time some Democrats spoke out against Conyers and Franken, but now the leadership has rallied around them. In both cases there's a clear political motivation, Republicans giving up Moore would mean losing the Alabama special election, while Democrats forcing out Conyers would mean he would have his replacement picked by a Republican governor.

But the real result, I think, is that the total social condemnation that seemed so strong just a month ago is now disappearing very quickly, and that's a wasted opportunity to change the culture so this kind of thing does not keep happening.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
No need to explain, the Netherlands went through the famous gardener phase around the early 2000's, including the guy turning out to be a sexual harasser/assaulter as well.

That is so weird. I mean, if anyone ever wrote a book about a man who became really famous for gardening, and then used that fame to cover up sex assaults on women, I would think that book was an absurd comedy, and probably a little too silly to be funny.

But now it turns out its happened not once but twice around the world. This is a weird planet.

Bob Ross will be next, and the world will weep...





My take on the Hollywood harassment scene is that a social group that portrays and condones hedonism and debauchery doesn't surprise me when they PRACTICE hedonism and debauchery. What surprises me more than anything is that media outlets to report this sort of thing have existed for at LEAST two decades, possibly more, and some of these accusations are only NOW coming out. I've personally known assault and harassment victims, none of them let that gak hit a MONTH before they reported it, up to and including one against a teacher. Shining a light on this is by far the most damaging thing they could do to these predators, yet it's taken THIS long.