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Rebels is pretty damn good (mostly), Resistance is... not so much! Going to be interesting to see what they do with it as they have announced that they are killing the series after this season.

 ingtaer wrote:
Rebels is pretty damn good (mostly), Resistance is... not so much! Going to be interesting to see what they do with it as they have announced that they are killing the series after this season.

Well, Rebels did get a lot better towards the end of S1 and onwards, a small handful of later derps aside. However, the difference is that Rebels had the fundamental ingredients all there - good crew, cool ship, solid premise - and just needed to figure out the recipe. Resistance...doesn't. The characters range from forgettable to annoying(IMO), the premise is pretty daft(IMO), and the art style & design work is very marmite. In order to make a good second season, at least for my money, they'd need to essentially make it an entirely different show.

Hopefully once the ST is wrapped up they'll let Filoni & Co do even more TCW, or make the Rebels follow up implied by the ending.

I was just reminiscing and does anyone remember, when Phantom Menace first came out, there was this toy in cereal boxes that was Jar Jar's head with a long sticky tongue inside.

It was great for about 5 minutes until all the carpet fluff, dust and other rubbish stuck to it; whereupon it became the ultimate weapon of terror against little sisters!

The Mandalorian has my interest. But it isn't about a Fett so... i am tentative. Rise of Skywalker I am really torn on. i thought Abrams set up a lot of cool plot lines that Johnson just crapped all over or straight up ignored. Not sure how Abrams is going to save this trilogy without it all being a disjointed mess. Seems like bringing Palpatine back may be a desperate grasp since Smoke was so unceremoniously snuffed before we even found out who he was.

I have faith in Abrams but, Johnson did such a hatchet job I am not sure even JJ can really put this thing back on the rails.

I've never really had faith in Abrams setup. He's just too fond of mysteries without having actually thought about answering them. I really enjoy his films in general though, so its a mixed bag for me. I'm just not upset about the answers we got (and some of them I quite like) simply because I'm not accustomed to Abrams doing much better when he answers them himself.

 LunarSol wrote:
I've never really had faith in Abrams setup. He's just too fond of mysteries without having actually thought about answering them. I really enjoy his films in general though, so its a mixed bag for me. I'm just not upset about the answers we got (and some of them I quite like) simply because I'm not accustomed to Abrams doing much better when he answers them himself.

This. Abrams like to just throw mysteries on the screen without any real plan for how to solve them, if he even intends to solve them at all.

This was writ large with the mess of mysteries that were chucked into Lost.

In my group of friends has about the same attitude as most in this thread..

Mandalorian does look good and they brought over a ton of Marvel people to help out.. One worry is they will only release slowly... eye dropper pace compared to binge watching like people are use too.

But I can agree the New generation of movies are off the road and in the ditch... Going to be hard to get it back on the road because there is a lot of fate lost.

Just hope they don't use time travel to fix the problems... It was defeat the giant sky laser was the go to movie trope; now it is time travel to fix your plot holes.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Well, Rebels did get a lot better towards the end of S1 and onwards, a small handful of later derps aside. However, the difference is that Rebels had the fundamental ingredients all there - good crew, cool ship, solid premise - and just needed to figure out the recipe. Resistance...doesn't. The characters range from forgettable to annoying(IMO), the premise is pretty daft(IMO), and the art style & design work is very marmite. In order to make a good second season, at least for my money, they'd need to essentially make it an entirely different show.

To give credit where it's due I thought they did shuffle the status quo pretty effectively about three quarters into season 1. Despite the ads making it seem like Oban Star Racers the actual 'racing' stuff only takes center stage a couple of times while the main push of the show is Kaz working as a mechanic and moonlighting as an urban explorer/spy, fighting pirates and such, with the occasional away mission episode with Poe that feels a lot more like something out of Rebels. That all changes about three quarters in when...



So... Yeah. Season 1 is very much an extended prologue with the events of Force Awakens hitting the characters like a freight train. It's still aiming for a younger demographic than clone wars or even rebels so I doubt it's second half is going to be mind blowing, but I don't think the show itself is inherently flawed.

If anything I think it's ending because Filoni moved in to the Mandalorian project and they feel they can wrap it up as a lead-in to Rise closer to the actual movie release?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I don't really think the movies are off-track narratively.

I know they said they were approaching each movie one at a time with no overarching plan but I think that's a smokescreen - JJ seems to be saying as much when he has (repeatedly now) stated that he hasn't had to do anything to correct the course following anything that was done, said, or shown in TLJ.

Yes it's wishful thinking. But I hope it's true, and I hope they stick the landing.

 Captain Joystick wrote:


I know they said they were approaching each movie one at a time with no overarching plan

This to me was the biggest mistake if true. The original star wars trilogy all had different directors but they had a singular writer behind them in George Lucas. The new trilogy should have been the same. The script for all three films should have been written and approved before production on TFA even began. Then we wouldn't have any speculation on the "mysteries" that JJ set up and Rian Johnson threw out/ignored.

I love star wars, and never mistake my criticisms as dislike. I'm just also an armchair filmmaker and so talking about this kind of stuff is fascinating to me.

My favorite alien is the weird little surgery guys on the asteroid where Padme dies in revenge of the sith. They have a name I just can't look them up this instant.

balmong7 wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:


I know they said they were approaching each movie one at a time with no overarching plan

This to me was the biggest mistake if true. The original star wars trilogy all had different directors but they had a singular writer behind them in George Lucas. The new trilogy should have been the same. The script for all three films should have been written and approved before production on TFA even began. Then we wouldn't have any speculation on the "mysteries" that JJ set up and Rian Johnson threw out/ignored.

I love star wars, and never mistake my criticisms as dislike. I'm just also an armchair filmmaker and so talking about this kind of stuff is fascinating to me.

My favorite alien is the weird little surgery guys on the asteroid where Padme dies in revenge of the sith. They have a name I just can't look them up this instant.

Yeah I have to agree. You can always tell when the stories have been made up as they went along, and they almost always suffer for it as a result too.

The original trilogy definitely flies by the seat of its pants though. George has always had a general story in mind, but the details have never been particularly firm. Leia ended up becoming Luke's sister to fill a plot hole after they set up a storyarc in Empire for Ep 7 before they decided to stop with RotJ being the most egregious, but generally speaking the series made up a lot as it went. Honestly, one of the biggest issues every movie since RotJ has suffered from, is simply that they're made by people that still want to play in the sandbox after the fans have boxed it in with pretty rigid rules.

I figured it was part of their 'under new management' branding. A deliberate contrast to George who would, quite often, insist that every dramatic beat, every line, every detail of whatever prequel movie he was currently working on had been his intention since the 1970s and everything was proceeding according to his design.

Problem is, one can (and people did) see it as them saying 'we're rudderless and don't know what to do', which is the scariest thing you can say when dealing with a massive franchise. But again, given what we've seen out of the tie-in material so far I don't think it's true; it feels like they're being very careful and deliberate.

 LunarSol wrote:
The original trilogy definitely flies by the seat of its pants though. George has always had a general story in mind, but the details have never been particularly firm. Leia ended up becoming Luke's sister to fill a plot hole after they set up a storyarc in Empire for Ep 7 before they decided to stop with RotJ being the most egregious, but generally speaking the series made up a lot as it went. Honestly, one of the biggest issues every movie since RotJ has suffered from, is simply that they're made by people that still want to play in the sandbox after the fans have boxed it in with pretty rigid rules.

This is a good way to put it.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
A deliberate contrast to George who would, quite often, insist that every dramatic beat, every line, every detail of whatever prequel movie he was currently working on had been his intention since the 1970s and everything was proceeding according to his design.

Right? Even as we know that wasn't remotely the case. I used to wonder about his motivations, but I eventually settled on the idea that it's as much about self-deception as anything else.

A lot of it is just the difference between dreams and pen on paper. Most people have a story in their head and they tell it, if only to themselves, over and over, but as they tell it, the details change, the specifics, but its still the same story in their mind.

The one that always stands out to me is the fate of Padme. It was always one of the trickier aspects of the original puzzle. Writing the base idea; villain is hero's father. Easy enough; particularly if you don't try to figure out the specifics. How old was Luke when Obi-Wan hid him? Did Vader know Padme was pregnant? What happened to her? Why didn't Vader go looking for him if he knew? None of the questions are really that hard, but if you answer them one by one; you fence yourself in a little more at a time and eventually find yourself stuck because the pieces don't fit. I think George runs into a lot of this kind of planning. Its not that he didn't have a plan; just that the plan wasn't "real".

 gorgon wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
The original trilogy definitely flies by the seat of its pants though. George has always had a general story in mind, but the details have never been particularly firm. Leia ended up becoming Luke's sister to fill a plot hole after they set up a storyarc in Empire for Ep 7 before they decided to stop with RotJ being the most egregious, but generally speaking the series made up a lot as it went. Honestly, one of the biggest issues every movie since RotJ has suffered from, is simply that they're made by people that still want to play in the sandbox after the fans have boxed it in with pretty rigid rules.

This is a good way to put it.

Eh, the question I always ask when I see some creative type whinging about being "boxed in" is - why are you playing in someone else's sandbox in the first place then? If you want to do your own thing by all means, toddle off and make the movie/show/game/whatever you want to make, but taking the paycheque to work in an existing setting and then complaining you have to work within that setting's history & themes? Forget the fans, that's entitlement IMO.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
The original trilogy definitely flies by the seat of its pants though. George has always had a general story in mind, but the details have never been particularly firm. Leia ended up becoming Luke's sister to fill a plot hole after they set up a storyarc in Empire for Ep 7 before they decided to stop with RotJ being the most egregious, but generally speaking the series made up a lot as it went. Honestly, one of the biggest issues every movie since RotJ has suffered from, is simply that they're made by people that still want to play in the sandbox after the fans have boxed it in with pretty rigid rules.

This is a good way to put it.

Eh, the question I always ask when I see some creative type whinging about being "boxed in" is - why are you playing in someone else's sandbox in the first place then? If you want to do your own thing by all means, toddle off and make the movie/show/game/whatever you want to make, but taking the paycheque to work in an existing setting and then complaining you have to work within that setting's history & themes? Forget the fans, that's entitlement IMO.

Does it still count if the first of the creative types upset about being boxed in was George Lucas?

Wasn’t the OT only successful because a group of talented people kept Lucas boxed in?

 LunarSol wrote:
Writing the base idea; villain is hero's father...

Which, incidentally, is another example of Lucas making stuff up as he went along. When ANH was made, Vader wasn't Luke's father... He and Anakin were two different people, hence Obi-Wan's explanation to Luke that was retconned to 'Well, I was only sort of lying to you...'

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Wasn’t the OT only successful because a group of talented people kept Lucas boxed in?

I think that's the narrative that gets peddled around today, but honestly I think in its day the OT was so unlike anything that had come before it, it would have turned out fine regardless. It might not have endured or held up as well, but a lot of the things we hold as critical to the experience also defined what critical to the experience means. They were released to an audience open to whatever new ideas they might add to the universe. It's hard to say that if things had been different they would have been worse. They may have just been different.

It's an interesting question. See, I instinctively lean toward the idea that TESB being so good -- people other than Lucas figuring heavily here -- was the key to the SW franchise enduring like it has.

But to be fair, it would have done the same box office regardless. And even if TESB had been 'meh' -- hell, even if it'd been BAD -- geeks would still have lapped it up. Totally different geek environment in those days. And the SW franchise contracted quite a bit anyway in the years between the OT and the prequels.

So maybe things really wouldn't be that different if we'd gotten the full Lucas and the quality of the OT slipped accordingly. It might be the same, just with worse movies. Maybe a little less general appeal.

Sand people are my favourite alien. I'm tempted to read more about them but don't want to ruin their mystique

 Captain Joystick wrote:
A deliberate contrast to George who would, quite often, insist that every dramatic beat, every line, every detail of whatever prequel movie he was currently working on had been his intention since the 1970s and everything was proceeding according to his design.

Maybe that was the problem?
The way I see it, major issue with prequels was that there was nobody to work with Lucas, or challenge him or present their own ideas - unlike in the first trilogy. Prequel scripts come across as drafts.

Prequels have a host of problems. Chief among them is just that for Lucas they were more about the prospects of digital filmmaking than telling the actual story. A lot of their clout was spent forcing digital projectors into theaters.

On the story side, one interesting thing to note is that there was originally supposed to be something of an Episode 0 that took place before the "Fall of the Republic" trilogy. It's often stated that this was abandoned, but I'd guess that it became EpI, with the actual prequel arc getting cut to 2 films instead. There's some personal bias there, but I've long felt the biggest issue with the structure of the prequels is that they needed:
Star of the War
Anakin becomes Vader
Rise of hte Empire
and shoving those last two into one film rushed the important parts.

Perhaps, Ep.I and II have way longer chronological gap between them than II and III.

Yes, Lucas wanted to push the technological envelope and at some point tail began to wag the dog.
Prequels perhaps have not aged well in technological respects. While some of the stuff still looks real good, many of the environments look fake or computer game-ish by todays standards. Also small stuff like lightsabers' glow, in prequels their light is not reflected in surroundings (like actors' faces). It's something what really stands out after you first notice it. 'Cleanliness' of the prequels did not personally bother me though, as they took place in more prosperous and peaceful time compared to banged-up, dusty Galactic backwater of the OT.

Lucas was personally disappointed with TFA and thought it way too unambitious, and here I have to agree with him.

I don't have a problem with the CGI in the prequels - In a way, the excessive reliance on it did the movies a favour, I think. Because so much of those movies is CGI, even if it starts to look a little cartoony in places it still at least all looks consistent.

By contrast, the CGI inserted into the OT special editions started to look dated incredibly quickly, and I find it really jarring.

It generally looks worse in EpII than either of the others because they relied on it far too heavily for pretty much everything. EpI holds up best in hindsight, though EpIII does some convincing things visually so its nice to see the tech improved. It's worth noting that EpII looks so cartoony that when Rebels included a flashback to the start of the Clone Wars, they just put a sepia filter over the actual movie and it looked like it was part of the cartoon.

That said, there's a lot of stuff that honestly didn't age well with the originals (particularly THE original) that's a little hard to remember after all the touch ups. Lightsabers have never actually cast a glow for example, though the lighting always hid that well (I think it used to be canon that they were so efficient light didn't actually escape the blade, but its cooler if it does so meh). A lot of the original blaster bolts, lightsabers, and explosions didn't hold up great, and a lot of locations like Bespin were pretty boring once you stopped imagining more interesting backgrounds. They hold up better, but for the flack the prequels get, the originals weren't trying to create something like Mustafar.

I concur that the remastering of the OT was great but most of the added material was not, Han shot first after all!

Seems that the new Thrawn triolgy has been extremely successful (rightly as they are good books, not as good as the original but still well worth the read) as a new trilogy has just been announced with the first due 2020. https://www.fanthatracks.com/news/literature/new-timothy-zahn-thrawn-trilogy-arriving-may-2020/

Would be intersting to find out everything they are doing creativley.
3 TV series; CW, Mandalorian and Cassian.
Finish of this triolgy of films, a new trilogy, Obi-Wan, preprequel films, anymore?
New Thrawn trilogy of books.
And all the comics (any on going)?

I think we may hit the point of maximum saturation soon.

I don't know that saturation will be an issue, given that some of those things are years away (there's a year off between Rise of Skywalker and the new trilogy picking up and I'd be amazed if we see things like Kenobi before 2021ish), And there's very little overlap between what's coming up, all the TV series will presumably remain very separate, and possibly on a fairly slow release cycle considering how long The Mandolorian has already been in development. Clone Wars is only a single series of a dozen episodes that probably won't go any further.

Can't speak for the books, but the comics have been good at keeping to a handful of core runs and the occasional oneoff, there's rarely more than 3-4 ongoing runs at any given time. At present, off the top of my head you've got Greg Pak taking over from Kieron Gilleon on Star Wars, Doctor Aphra moving towards a conclusion, I think Charles Soule's Vader run is done and being replaced with a Kylo Ren series, and then the Age Of Republic/Rebellion/Resistance which are mostly oneshots. Certainly manageable compared to The Big Two's comic publishing schedules.

I don't think SW can necessarily maintain the Marvel pace of 3 films, 3-4 series across various platforms and practically infinite comics each year, but equally, the current upcoming slate is no where near that packed. So long as the quality stays up, I don't forsee any issues.