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Insectum7 wrote: ^Wait. . . custom Traits with UM Strats and Wargear?
Correct. Successor chapters count as their primogenitors for the purposes of psyker powers and strategems. They simply can’t take the named characters.
Wooow. That's gonna open up a crazy number of potential combinations. I'm not sure whether I like that or not. It'll sell more books though.
Insectum7 wrote: ^Wait. . . custom Traits with UM Strats and Wargear?
Correct. Successor chapters count as their primogenitors for the purposes of psyker powers and strategems. They simply can’t take the named characters.
Wooow. That's gonna open up a crazy number of potential combinations. I'm not sure whether I like that or not. It'll sell more books though.
it weill but none of the sucessor combinations are "Game breakingly powerful" in fact I'd argue the first founding CTs are proably, over all the best.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Now that I think about it I don't remember if it said anything about the Doctrine bonus. That would stop the really nasty turn 1 UM Aggressor shenanigans if that part doesn't come along for the ride.
...well that's kind of crazy. Jesus that means I can take the range extender trait and use the Master of Tactics and Squad Doctrines to double-tap with Aggressors 2" into my opponent's deployment zone on turn one. That's gross.
Not sure it's worth giving up Cassius. 5+++ and +2" charge / +3" pile-in bubbles from one guy...at least if you get the rolls off.
I've seen a few 'pure primaris' lists that have Cassius in them.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
The Newman wrote: Now that I think about it I don't remember if it said anything about the Doctrine bonus. That would stop the really nasty turn 1 UM Aggressor shenanigans if that part doesn't come along for the ride.
They get the doctrine bonus. It is perfectly clear. Could people please stop getting this wrong? It is starting to get tiresome.
ThatMG wrote: Talking about chaos I think the Troops options for CSM should be
Legion Marines
Renegade Marines
Chaos Cuultists
And key into those rules. Basically Legion marines are the Chosen datasheet. They could also use some quality buffs.
SM + Primaris = the hot stuff right now
CSM + Chaos = the hot stuff should be.
I personally do hate the design behind the whole warbands of chaos design the infamous writer did.
Chaos should be more closer to what the Horus Hersey books where like on a power level kind of thing with "flavour" added for the corruption of chaos.
Marines SHOULD be scared of Chaos Armies. Rather than view them as a minor speed bumb or "spikey/edgy marines"
Scratch the cultists.
They should be in a lost and damned /R&H dex.
Instead go for specific auxilia for certain legions.
(cannonfodder for IW, Infiltrators for AL, Crusaders for WB.etc)
In my ideal world, Cultists would have an ability to block Astartes units like they were Characters for targeting purposes, and it stops the moment they get to a certain number of models in the unit, like 5 or so. THAT would be interesting at least.
You mean chaos cultists getting the GSC Unquestioning Loyalty?
The Newman wrote: Now that I think about it I don't remember if it said anything about the Doctrine bonus. That would stop the really nasty turn 1 UM Aggressor shenanigans if that part doesn't come along for the ride.
They get the doctrine bonus. It is perfectly clear. Could people please stop getting this wrong? It is starting to get tiresome.
Pthth, I didn't get it wrong, I second guessed myself 20 minutes or so after I re-read the section. I had it right the first time.
If you are an Ultramarines successor - you get scions of guilliman. You are only an ultramarine successor if you use their chapter tactic.
This is incredibly wordy for no reason but I will quote verbatim.
"If the successor chapter does not have a known founding chapter but has the inheritors of the prirmarch successor tactic, and you selected the chapter tactic of a first founding chapter, your chosen chapter is a successor have THAT chapter."
Only Ultramarines successors get scions of GMan and all Ultramarines sucessors have Ultramarines chapter tactics and only Ultramarines sucessors have access to their powers and relics (not all relics unless they spend CP) and stratagems.
So no busted combos like Iron hands tactics on Ultramarines scuessors with scions of guilliman and running seal of oath.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/21 00:59:08
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: If you are an Ultramarines successor - you get scions of guilliman. You are only an ultramarine successor if you use their chapter tactic.
This is incredibly wordy for no reason but I will quote verbatim.
"If the successor chapter does not have a known founding chapter but has the inheritors of the prirmarch successor tactic, and you selected the chapter tactic of a first founding chapter, your chosen chapter is a successor have THAT chapter."
Only Ultramarines successors get scions of GMan and all Ultramarines sucessors have Ultramarines chapter tactics and only Ultramarines sucessors have access to their powers and relics (not all relics unless they spend CP) and stratagems.
So no busted combos like Iron hands tactics on Ultramarines scuessors with scions of guilliman and running seal of oath.
As well as no actual UM with those successors. It's either ALL successors or ALL UM.
Xenomancers wrote: If you are an Ultramarines successor - you get scions of guilliman.
Yes.
You are only an ultramarine successor if you use their chapter tactic.
No. This if false. You can choose a custom tactic and be a successor.
"If the successor chapter does not have a known founding chapter but has the inheritors of the prirmarch successor tactic, and you selected the chapter tactic of a first founding chapter, your chosen chapter is a successor have THAT chapter."
This means that you cannot choose to have Salamanders tactic via Inheritors of the Prirmarch and claim to be an Ultra successor. However absolutely no restriction exist for custom chapters, they can be successors just fine.
UM sucsessors can get UM Traits and relics and strats
UM successors can take a combination of custom chapter Traits, plus UM relics and strats
Non-UM successors can't take any UM relics or strats
?
Theres got to be something Im missing. Whats the mechanic declaring a successor or not?
UM sucsessors can get UM Traits and relics and strats
UM successors can take a combination of custom chapter Traits, plus UM relics and strats
Yes, except successors need to pay an extra CP of tax for Ultra relics and can have only one of them. They can take special issue wargear (crappier relics in the supplements) and the codex relics at normal price.
Non-UM successors can't take any UM relics or strats
Yes.
Theres got to be something Im missing.
What's missing is the rest of the supplements. Presumably it is expected that everyone will playing with some supplement, but currently we have only two to choose from.
UM sucsessors can get UM Traits and relics and strats
UM successors can take a combination of custom chapter Traits, plus UM relics and strats
Non-UM successors can't take any UM relics or strats
?
Theres got to be something Im missing. Whats the mechanic declaring a successor or not?
Generated successors can be elected as 'ultramarine successors' (or w/e chapter you want to follow) even if they aren't direct descendants.
Successors can use stratagems and traits - no problem.
Successors can buy ONE UM relic with a stratagem.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/21 02:09:37
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Theres got to be something Im missing. Whats the mechanic declaring a successor or not?
You declare it at the start of the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ThatMG wrote: My Blood Ravens are using the following tactics.
Born Heroes, Whirlwind of Rage.
The White Dwarf are unbelievably mediocre.
Amusingly enough, Blood Ravens can use any combination of successor tactics (Including IotP, though that locks them into a particular primogenitor for the battle), and just straight up steal relics and super-doctrines from other chapters (by declaring themselves as successors) while still using their super-librarian strategem and Gabriel.
Its hilariously fluffy.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/21 02:17:50
Another question about the English version vs the French version: how does the successor chapters work in English ? Noone seem to agree in France but I don't see any disagreement here.
So for you who have the original content in it's intended language, can I make my own chapter, say they are inheritors of the Ultramarines, use the supplement with the super doctrine and some relics and use my own CT or do I have to play Ultramarines to use the supplement ? Etc
Thanks !
godardc wrote: can I make my own chapter, say they are inheritors of the Ultramarines, use the supplement with the super doctrine and some relics and use my own CT
Yes you can. Though you have to pay an extra CP for Ultra relic and can have only one of them.
