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 JNAProductions wrote:

 Insularum wrote:
All the Agastus datasheets are now up for download. Gotta love GW's commitment to not checking their own work, new Lieutenant datasheet re-introduces points for wargear, so the beloved Primaris Lt is now more expensive than a Captain if you take any of the fancy toys.

On the Warhammer app, or somewhere else?

Warhammer Community page, Downloads section.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Insularum wrote:
All the Agastus datasheets are now up for download. Gotta love GW's commitment to not checking their own work, new Lieutenant datasheet re-introduces points for wargear, so the beloved Primaris Lt is now more expensive than a Captain if you take any of the fancy toys.

On the Warhammer app, or somewhere else?

Warhammer Community page, Downloads section.

Thank you.

 p5freak wrote:
It is S14. Not all wargear is free for space marines, but the lieutenant cost is the same as in the MFM.

Ah okay. Yeah, S14 makes the reroll more necessary. Regarding the Bolter Fist though, at that point I'd go regular Primaris Dread route meant to fight hordes. Seems like new guy should be taking advantage of hitting walls.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Elites:
×5 Deathwing
. 5 TH/SS, 1 Cyclone
×5 Deathwing
. 5 TH/SS, 1 Cyclone
×5 Deathwing
. 5 TH/SS, 1 Cyclone
×5 Relic
. 4 Combi-Bolter, 1 Autocannon, 1 Grenade Harness
. 4 Power Fist, Chainfist on Sergeant
×5 Relic
. 4 Combi-Bolter, 1 Autocannon, 1 Grenade Harness
. 4 Power Fist, Chainfist on Sergeant
×5 Relic
. 4 Combi-Bolter, 1 Autocannon, 1 Grenade Harness
. 4 Power Fist, Chainfist on Sergeant

Why take Relics when you could take 10 Man Deathwing squads and just Combat Squad them into the units that you like? For example, you could take a 10 man Squad with 5 TH/SS (That's what Deathwing allows for, yeah?), and 2 Cyclones. Then you could Combat Squad it out to 5-man TH/SS and 5-man w/2 Cyclones. You also keep the option for a big squad for Strat purposes if the situation is optimal.

"Desolation Marine" ... the hell?

 Insectum7 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Elites:
×5 Deathwing
. 5 TH/SS, 1 Cyclone
×5 Deathwing
. 5 TH/SS, 1 Cyclone
×5 Deathwing
. 5 TH/SS, 1 Cyclone
×5 Relic
. 4 Combi-Bolter, 1 Autocannon, 1 Grenade Harness
. 4 Power Fist, Chainfist on Sergeant
×5 Relic
. 4 Combi-Bolter, 1 Autocannon, 1 Grenade Harness
. 4 Power Fist, Chainfist on Sergeant
×5 Relic
. 4 Combi-Bolter, 1 Autocannon, 1 Grenade Harness
. 4 Power Fist, Chainfist on Sergeant

Why take Relics when you could take 10 Man Deathwing squads and just Combat Squad them into the units that you like? For example, you could take a 10 man Squad with 5 TH/SS (That's what Deathwing allows for, yeah?), and 2 Cyclones. Then you could Combat Squad it out to 5-man TH/SS and 5-man w/2 Cyclones. You also keep the option for a big squad for Strat purposes if the situation is optimal.

1. Extra attack on the sarge matters for the melee squads. Even for the shooting dudes, the extra Chainfist matters.
2. Avoids Blast better. Even with permanent Transhuman, you still don't want greater multidamage shots getting through.
3. I have more Autocannon Terminators LOL

Assuming proxy though you bring up a good point though! It IS a first draft for a list I used only a couple of times and there's always room for perfection.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

1. Extra attack on the sarge matters for the melee squads. Even for the shooting dudes, the extra Chainfist matters.
2. Avoids Blast better. Even with permanent Transhuman, you still don't want greater multidamage shots getting through.
3. I have more Autocannon Terminators LOL

Assuming proxy though you bring up a good point though! It IS a first draft for a list I used only a couple of times and there's always room for perfection.

1. Extra Attack is nice. . . but the Sarge can just go with the TH/SS squad. For the shooting Squads, do you want an extra Chainfist Attack . . . or an extra Cyclone?
2: Only if you don't split the squad.
3. Fair enough. (Aka, why don't I field 30 Sternguard? I don't have 30 painted Sternguard. :/ )

 Insectum7 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

1. Extra attack on the sarge matters for the melee squads. Even for the shooting dudes, the extra Chainfist matters.
2. Avoids Blast better. Even with permanent Transhuman, you still don't want greater multidamage shots getting through.
3. I have more Autocannon Terminators LOL

Assuming proxy though you bring up a good point though! It IS a first draft for a list I used only a couple of times and there's always room for perfection.

1. Extra Attack is nice. . . but the Sarge can just go with the TH/SS squad. For the shooting Squads, do you want an extra Chainfist Attack . . . or an extra Cyclone?
2: Only if you don't split the squad.
3. Fair enough. (Aka, why don't I field 30 Sternguard? I don't have 30 painted Sternguard. :/ )

I just tell people to use Sternguard with their Tactical Marines. Most people don't care that some of your squad ain't blinged out enough.

You're also correct it's not taking advantage of the combat squad rule effectively. Sooooo it's something to think about instead of throwing a Cyclone dude into the thick of it.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

I just tell people to use Sternguard with their Tactical Marines. Most people don't care that some of your squad ain't blinged out enough.

They might if you're running them chock full of free Combi-Plasmas. . .

I might do it if I get the go-ahead from my opponent ahead of time. I wouldn't surprise a stranger with it, that's for sure.

 Insectum7 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

I just tell people to use Sternguard with their Tactical Marines. Most people don't care that some of your squad ain't blinged out enough.

They might if you're running them chock full of free Combi-Plasmas. . .

I might do it if I get the go-ahead from my opponent ahead of time. I wouldn't surprise a stranger with it, that's for sure.

Alright so I reworked the squads to your recommendation:
×10 Deathwing
. 5 TH/SS, 5 Storm Bolter/Power Fist w/ 2 Cyclones
×10 Deathwing
. 5 TH/SS, 5 Storm Bolter/Power Fist w/ 2 Cyclones
×10 Relic Terminators
. 5 LC/CF w/ 2 Grenade Harness, 5 Combi-Bolters/Power Fists w/ 2 Autocannons

The Command Squad is reworked to be an Assault Cannon instead of the CML since I have the darn model and might as well use it. I'd normally just do Heavy Flamer or CML, but thr Assault Cannon allows the squad to either stick with the range dudes or the assault dudes depending the match.

I'm genuinely curious, has anyone used Heavy Intercessors much at all, at least in casual play? If so, what loadout did you give them, and did they feel like they were worth having? I recently picked up the Agastus box and wanted to get some idea of loadouts before I put the Heavies together (probably going to wait anyway, as I'll use the Gravis pads from the DA accessory sprues in the upcoming Azrael vs. Vashtorr battle box on them. I do already have a squad of five with the heavy auto rifles (and the matching heavy bolter), but I've never actually played them.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm genuinely curious, has anyone used Heavy Intercessors much at all, at least in casual play? If so, what loadout did you give them, and did they feel like they were worth having? I recently picked up the Agastus box and wanted to get some idea of loadouts before I put the Heavies together (probably going to wait anyway, as I'll use the Gravis pads from the DA accessory sprues in the upcoming Azrael vs. Vashtorr battle box on them. I do already have a squad of five with the heavy auto rifles (and the matching heavy bolter), but I've never actually played them.

i use them quite a bit in my deathwatch force, for two main reasons:

1) using the imdomitor kill team rules, i can use them as a base unit for creating obsec Inceptors or agressors, which is neat.

2) I Just Think They're Neat (insert meme of Marge Simpson here)


That said, i felt they weren't a "tax" for me, at least no more than any troops choice is. At the 1k-1500 points i normally play at, they were surprisingly survivable, able to soak up a lot of incidental fire thanks to t5, w3, transhuman, etc. their shooting was nothing special, but they made a nice backfield unit that could at least contribute while it was holding the rear point.

i ran them with the assault 3 bolter version, but that was mostly due to them seeing action in the AoC era where AP 1 wasnt worth much, so YMMV.

 Insularum wrote:
All the Agastus datasheets are now up for download. Gotta love GW's commitment to not checking their own work, new Lieutenant datasheet re-introduces points for wargear, so the beloved Primaris Lt is now more expensive than a Captain if you take any of the fancy toys.

It's GW. The left hand doesn't know that the right hand even exists, let alone what it's doing!

Anyway, the Dread's cool. Can't want to get mine.

I've gone off the Primaris Compensators with the Goofy Guns. At first I liked them in an absurd kind of way, but since their reveal I've just liked them less and less. They're a hard pass.

[EDIT]: Turns out if you make enough noise...

"GW has posted the datasheets from Strike Force Agastus for free download, which is helpful. They have corrected the lieutenant points cost on this, it's now 65pts (all gear free)."



But it still went to print with the points values there. Pillocks.

 Insectum7 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

I just tell people to use Sternguard with their Tactical Marines. Most people don't care that some of your squad ain't blinged out enough.

They might if you're running them chock full of free Combi-Plasmas. . .

I might do it if I get the go-ahead from my opponent ahead of time. I wouldn't surprise a stranger with it, that's for sure.

Well tac marine body or sternguard body doesn't matter. You need those combi plasmas on models.

so, looking at the 10th ed reveal video, it seems that in addition to the terminators we were expecting, we are getting:

-a new flame armed phobos marine unit, which seems to have options for both a combi-flamer and the black templars "pyreblaster" flamer.

- a pure shooting Redemptor variant, with lascannons and missiles.

-new termie librarian, in ADDITION to the new terminator kit (which so far has only shown us classic termies with no assault ones seen yet)

- new gravis Apothecary.

oh, and they've retconned the lore and primaris can now fit into terminator armour.

thoughts?

The new Terminators look SOOOO much better than the old ones. Granted we've only seen 2 of them but it's a good indicator.

I can hardly see any difference, they are a tiny bit bigger and a tiny bit chunkier.

 p5freak wrote:
I can hardly see any difference, they are a tiny bit bigger and a tiny bit chunkier.

Not just that, but the shoulders are less dislocated.

Look nice. I’ve wanted modern plastic terminators for a while now, but couldn’t justify replacing my classic metals. By the time the dust settles on 10th, I’ll probably have stumbled my way into a full 1st company.

It will be interesting to see how the new options are formed into units. Sternguard vet-esque? Hellblaster style mono-squad? Classic tactical special/sarge weapons in bolter units? I’m sure we will learn more in the next months.

i was looking through battle scribe and came to think if the naked relic contemptor with 2 heavy plasma cannons for 140 could be interesting in any way?

2d3 shots at s8 and flat3 dam. flat 4 in imp fists. Its a t7 9w -1dam 5++ model that doesn't degrade. I know the volkites are better, obviously, but 140 points is cheap.

Have we seen a difference between Relic shields and Stormshields yet? (Aside from aesthetically one has bones)

I'm working on a Primaris Captain Kitbash and all I have is a spare Termie Shield.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/09/download-free-space-marines-index-cards-and-defend-the-imperium-from-annihilation/


Codex chapters/"generic marine" datacards are now available.

Is anyone else a bit surprised that Tactical Squads now have to be taken as a full 10-man unit :(

Van Vets have had ALL their melee weapons consolidated into one generic "Heirloom weapons" profile, which is bascially "str 5 chainswords". God-emperor DAMM, thats unexpectedly harsh. regular assault marines do mortals on the charge, honestly they seem to be much closer in value.

Rievers now force a battleshock test on anyone within 6", which is a serious boost for them

Funny to say value when we have no idea about point cost beside greater than 0

Hellblaster as a Bodyguard unit seems pretty nice. Put a melee Cap and Lt and every dead Hellblaster gets to shoot back.

tneva82 wrote:
Funny to say value when we have no idea about point cost beside greater than 0

welll, they are both fairly close in apparent power, so baseline they should be within a few points of each other (as they are now). However, the big advantage of van vets (access to specialised melee weapons to tailor their melee output, and for zero cost in late 9th) is now gone, so the big "draw" to van vets over assault squads has been removed.

ergo, assault squads have arguably gone form a pretty rare choice very few people would take, to one that is now close enough to van vets that it really does look like thier are cases to use them in preference to van vets.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
Van Vets have had ALL their melee weapons consolidated into one generic "Heirloom weapons" profile, which is bascially "str 5 chainswords". God-emperor DAMM, thats unexpectedly harsh. regular assault marines do mortals on the charge, honestly they seem to be much closer in value.

I actually don't even see a point to Vanguard as a unit.
With Jump Packs, you're comparing to Assault Marines and the only difference in statline is S5 vs S4. That's key for certain matchups until you realize that Assault Marines get 2 Eviscerators and a Power Fist Sarge. Unlimited pistol switches is less valuable than getting actual Special Weapons.

On foot you're just worse Bladeguard.

I'd argue that Vanguard would actually have to cost less, which is absurd.

Vanguard do get a 4++ assault marines are better Offensively but it's not all about offence

U02dah4 wrote:
Vanguard do get a 4++ assault marines are better Offensively but it's not all about offence

I mean, if you can kill an Intercessor you can kill a Vanguard. A 4++ really only goes so far as a benefit.