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 kirotheavenger wrote:
I do wonder what the difference between "SR" and "!" is though, so far it seems like a distinction without a difference tbh.

'SR' are special rules that apply to all hits (edit: or possibly all attacks?). '!' is for special rules that only apply to crits. So a weapon that does a mortal wound on every hit would have '1MW' in the 'SR' column, while one that does 3 mortal wounds on a crit would have '3MW' in the '!' column.

Ah! Thanks, that makes sense.

My understanding is that ! is a Critical Hit rule. So the Evicerator is Brutal all the time and has Reap 2 on Critical Hits. That's why the Lethal, improved chance to get a Critical Hit, is a SR (Special Rule) as opposed to a ! (Critical Effect).

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I do wonder what the difference between "SR" and "!" is though, so far it seems like a distinction without a difference tbh.

SR is presumably Special Rule. ! appears to be for on-crit effects. It's a little inference to get there, but it's consistent with every instance we know the rules for (special rules always apply, things that only affect crits are in the !), so I feel pretty confident about it.

As for the Eviscerator stats, that's more or less how I was expecting all-offense melee to work, though I was guessing maybe 3 dice at 3+ just so the high end of the bell curve couldn't score 4 hits, but still average out to 2. I'll take 4 @ 4+, though, as a Sisters fan, because that means more consistency as well as a higher proportion of hits being crits. The few successes, but high damage is exactly what I was anticipating, though. They'll really benefit from the attacker's advantage of applying the first success, though, killing even a lightly wounded human or aeldari with their first success if it's their swing.

Reap definitely makes me curious, though.

4 A at 4+ is a slight improvement over their 2 attack at 4+ in current KT. With damage boost special rule they can one shot 7 wound fighter, which is fantastic.

repentia, the glass cannon. Will be really interested to see how they can be kitted out in terms of specialisms and abilities and such!

The icons indicate Combat and Scout.

So a zealot repentia will be pretty good in melee then! But I still think this system seems to favour melee combat over shooting, even this repentia will have better chance to survive against AP weapons than a regular guardsman.. Because all melee defense comes via inv saves, which will mostly be a thing for melee operatives.

bummed

Have they confirmed how inv saves and ap1 etc work?

Nope.
My money's on pretty much the same as 40k, your save can never be worse than that.
So invulns won't help in melee, but FNPs are useful in melee and so are the only defence.
Same for AP.

It's unfortunate that they've kept the 40k model of pretending not to use universal special rules though, given that they are using USRs for weapons.

Starting to see How To Paint tutorials from GW on the Kommandos.

Reckon we can expect it’s pre-order to be next weekend?

Here's hoping that's going to be the case.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Starting to see How To Paint tutorials from GW on the Kommandos.

Reckon we can expect it’s pre-order to be next weekend?

That's what I was hoping, but it looks like this weekend is the 1k Sons vs. Grey Knights box and codexes, based on yesterday's announcement.

Hopefully it'll be up for pre-order on the 14th, released on the 21st.

Edit: Derp, you said next weekend.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Social media put out an image of the Haywire Mine. Summarizing/transcribing the text here since I'm too lazy to upload it somewhere.

Haywire Mine is a 1AP action: Place a Haywire Mine token within (triangle) of this operative. This operative can only perform this action once, and cannot perform this action while within Engagement Range of enemy operatives. If this operative is incapacitated and removed from the killzone, remove its Haywire Mine token.

This operative is equipped with the following ranged weapon:

Haywire Mine A4 - BS2+_- D4/5
SR: Detonate*, Silent - ! Stun

*DETONATE: Each time this operative makes a SHOOT action using its haywire mine, make a shooting attack against each operative within (square) of the cenre of its Haywire Mine token with that weapon. When making those shooting attacks, each operative is treated as being Visible, but when determining if it is in Cover, treat this operative's Haywire Mine token as the active operative. Then remove this operative's Haywire Mine token. An operative cannot make a shooting attack with this weapon by performing an OVERWATCH action, or if its Haywire Mine token is not in the killzone.

New article -

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/02/seize-the-initiative-and-launch-crucial-strategic-ploys-in-kill-teams-dramatic-turning-points/

Ah feth, I didn't want to read the article as I knew from the title it was just going to confirm my fears.

Strategems.

Urrgh, I hate them.
Hopefully they're far more restrained than they are in 40k.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Nope.
My money's on pretty much the same as 40k, your save can never be worse than that.
So invulns won't help in melee, but FNPs are useful in melee and so are the only defence.
Same for AP.

It's unfortunate that they've kept the 40k model of pretending not to use universal special rules though, given that they are using USRs for weapons.

I'll be honest the more I think about it the more I like 'your melee skill is also your melee defense". as a model. It means you can't throw mooks at highly skilled melee duellist combatants and be reasonably certain you'll whack a couple of them, like how in 40k currently charging a squad of cultists armed with lead pipes into a squad of extremely skilled combatants like Harlequins or Howling Banshees is probably a good trade for you points-wise.

 kirotheavenger wrote:

Strategems.

Urrgh, I hate them.

I share that feeling. Removing them would be one step closer to reducing unnecessary rules bloat in 40k.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Ah feth, I didn't want to read the article as I knew from the title it was just going to confirm my fears.

Strategems.

Urrgh, I hate them.
Hopefully they're far more restrained than they are in 40k.

Completely agree. If it has to exist I'd much rather stuff like this was tied to pre-game purchases/decisions but the new no-points KT makes that difficult. It feels like a lack of confidence in your own game design to include this kind of thing. It's as if the designers don't think the game is already fun and tactical so they have to add in strats to give a veneer of decision making instead.

So take a look at the Ork terrain towards the top/back of the pic:

There are few elements that are repeated, including one thing that's there 4 times.

Photoshopped or more Orky terrain kits?

They definitely said more Ork terrain was coming, so I would say it's likely a new kit.

I just wish terrain would stay available long enough for me to buy it....

I can't believe the Imperial terrain from the last Kill Team / 40K is no longer available....

What’s the squidy thing behind the taurox?

StraightSilver wrote:
They definitely said more Ork terrain was coming...

Aside from the Command Bunker, can you show me where they said that?

StraightSilver wrote:
I just wish terrain would stay available long enough for me to buy it....

I can't believe the Imperial terrain from the last Kill Team / 40K is no longer available....

And without warning too. Really wish that stuff would come back.

 JoeRugby wrote:
What’s the squidy thing behind the taurox?

A Mucolid Spore.

Cheers HBMC not seen that before

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So take a look at the Ork terrain towards the top/back of the pic:

There are few elements that are repeated, including one thing that's there 4 times.

Photoshopped or more Orky terrain kits?

Probably a conversion photoshopped. The watchtower and ork face on a pole part are both from the Stompa kit.

CSM Gunner shared on social media. 12 wounds, same stats on Flamer, Meltagun, and Plasma Gun as the Gunner Veteran Guardsman seen fuzzily on-stream, except the CSM gets a 3+ BS instead of the Veteran Guardsman's 4+. Interesting.

Special equipment rules: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/04/new-equipment-rules-give-your-kill-teams-the-right-tools-for-the-job-no-matter-the-mission/

So in Matched play you get 10 "Equipment Points" (EP) before each battle to spend on special equipment for your models, like Markerlights, Trench Shovels, Grenades, etc. Every example in the article costs 2 EP, but there may be that cost more or less, of course (I hope so!)

In a campaign you need to earn such equipment as rewards for battles fought, but there's also more "Rare" options available, such as Auto-loaders and Arc units.

I like it. I assume this is also how stuff like Haywire Mines, Shock Grenades, Grapnel Guns etc. is implemented. Hopefully lots of options for customization, certainly beyond just the regular weapons the models can take!

New WarCom article.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/04/new-equipment-rules-give-your-kill-teams-the-right-tools-for-the-job-no-matter-the-mission/

Basically a pre-game points resource used to assign equipment to your models. (Wait, so we do have points?).
Seems cool enough.

Some thoughts though; Markerlight is such a piece of equipment. Does that mean Pathfinders don't start with them?

WarCom implies that Ceaseless (reroll 1s to-hit) makes a plasmagun more dangerous. This would imply that Hot does not trigger on 1s to hit, and instead would presumably trigger on high rolls? Curious.
Alternatively, WarCom is full of gak and Ceaseless makes a plasmagun about 6x safer, like reroll 1s does in regular 40k, who can say!

I do worry that the start of a game will be a huge faff though. You can't just turn up and play, no. You need to turn up then build your killteam then buy equipment. Only then are you able to actually start playing.

Yeah, this just adds more pre-game stuff to the start of the game, which I don't like. I'm also not a fan of GW's increasingly wordy rules writing. They've clearly seen how other games write rules but pretty much missed the point as usual.

 kirotheavenger wrote:

I do worry that the start of a game will be a huge faff though. You can't just turn up and play, no. You need to turn up then build your killteam then buy equipment. Only then are you able to actually start playing.

Obviously that isn't the case, you can just pick a list you'd want to use in your next game(s) well before you actually turn up, of course. The option to tailor to your opponent is there, though. But I expect most playing this will already know who their opponent is going to be, or will have a largely set list to use with a few choices to make before starting the game. Shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes if you're well aware of all your options (I expect most will make a shortlist of options they think are going to be useful against a variety of opponents) - and just in case, I don't see how "too many options" could be a complaint when people complain all the time that this game will not have enough options...!

It's not the fact that the options are there, it's that it all needs to be after turning up but before the game (it's after you generate mission as well).
Sure you can not use the rules, but if that's tempting that just proves it's a bad rule.