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 Gert wrote:
Everything is legal for everything.

All Army List Profiles for the Warhammer: The Horus Heresy – Age of Darkness range are divided into two categories: Core
units and Expanded units. All of the units in this PDF are ‘Expanded’ units. These represent many of the little-known, rarified
units that were part of the Legiones Astartes during the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy that may not have official
miniatures and instead offer the collector an opportunity to convert their own interpretations.
Both ‘Core’ and ‘Expanded’ types of unit may be freely used in any Horus Heresy battle, and this category does not affect their
availability as part of an army or Detachment or the rules for their use during a battle.
As new units and models are released, their Army List Profiles will clearly state if those units are Core or Expanded units, and
future publications may shift the category of a given unit, with any such changes clearly noted in the unit’s Army List Profile.

This very much feels like how legends should have been done.

beast_gts wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:
Weren't marines always able to take one LR achillies as part of a legion land raider squadron entry?

Not in the initial 2.0 rules - only the Proteus (and Spartan).

Ah, gotcha.

 Gert wrote:
The Excelsior has post-Heresy weaponry though, whereas the Hammerfall has weapons that existed during the Heresy. That's why it won't be in there.

Just the grav cannon, and FW made the grav imploder option in HH 1.0 to represent 40k style grav weapons in addition to the 30k graviton weapons.

 Rihgu wrote:
Well, not Daemons of the Ruinstorm or Cults & Militia... which were sort of implied to be concurrent with initial release and not July.

Implied where though? The roadmap had PDFs from now until October and to my recollection, it didn't say when C&M + Ruinstorm Daemons were coming out. It was inferred that the Legacies and Exemplary Battles PDFs would be out alongside the Legion books and IMO two weeks into the full release of the game isn't bad timing to release additional materials. If Mechanicum and the various other factions are also getting Legacy PDFs then it would be safe to assume they will be out alongside those releases.
All the armies for HH that currently exist will be out in time for the WHW event in November. Is it irritating? A little bit but at the same time to be completely expected and the fact we know that all the HH armies will be out before the end of the year is better than anything we've had from FW (or even GW) in the past.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Just the grav cannon, and FW made the grav imploder option in HH 1.0 to represent 40k style grav weapons in addition to the 30k graviton weapons.

The Graviton Imploder being this?

A big mortar type of weapon?
Or this:

The Graviton Imploder isn't the 40k Grav Cannons.

Looks like a very solid PDF, and delivered in a timely fashion after the Age of Darkness release. Can't complain. Hopefully the Liber Mechanicum and Liber Imperium will be followed by similar releases for whatever units won't get published in those books.

 Gert wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Just the grav cannon, and FW made the grav imploder option in HH 1.0 to represent 40k style grav weapons in addition to the 30k graviton weapons.

The Graviton Imploder being this?

Spoiler:

A big mortar type of weapon?
Or this:

Spoiler:

The Graviton Imploder isn't the 40k Grav Cannons.

Rules wise, it was.

From the SM codex,
Grav gun was 18" S* AP2 salvo 2/3 concussive, graviton (wound on a roll equal to targets save, or a 6 otherwise)
Grav Cannon was 24" S* AP2 salvo 3/5 concussive, graviton

From the Mechanicum red book
Grav Imploder was 18" S* AP2 salvo 2/4 concussive, graviton

The other grav weapons in HH were blast, with the graviton pulse (target rolls equal or under strength to avoid, and the marker is left for a turn as difficult and dangerous terrain)

Huh, I thought that when I swung by the thread I would see everyone hating on the IW heads like I was... Interesting.

Hammerfall Bunker? Well I'll be...

 Boringstuff wrote:
Huh, I thought that when I swung by the thread I would see everyone hating on the IW heads like I was... Interesting.

I mean I'm not a huge fan of them, but I'm not super bothered by them either. IW are my second favorite legion, but they have a good variety of head options out there (3rd party, 3d prints, etc).

The old FW ones definitely looked better though.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hammerfall Bunker? Well I'll be...

I guess it wasn't cawls doin after all. Maybe it was from Arkan Lands lesser known acolyte...Hammerius Decendus

Hammerfall bunker does make sense and fit into the larger scale of the Heresy. Spartans vs Land Raiders, Stormbirds vs Thunderhawks, Hammerfall Bunkers vs Deathstorm Drop Pods

I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. I'm just surprised to see it at all.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. I'm just surprised to see it at all.

Yeah same. It's not that it's design screams 'Primaris', but there are a few tells. The flamethrower options are identical to the Black Templar Pyreblasters and some of the angles resemble more the smooth surfaces of the Repulsor rather than the clunkier deimos-pattern vehicles.

But hey, a neat addition for people that care for it. At only BS 2 it's not going to be doing a ton of damage.

Lots of cool stuff, but I'm heartbroken that there's no profile for the Luperci. I am very happy that Indomitus Terminators have rules, as those are the ones I want to use, though I'm very disappointed that there are no rules for an Indomitus praetor or other HQ.

Looks like a lot of the statblocks are unplayably bad and overcosted, and contain numerous inconsistencies that can only be attributed to either open malice or total incompetence. The Stormlord has somehow stopped being open-topped, for example.

My earlier positive appraisal of the PDF was clearly a mistake, this is more in line what I expect from GW - a farcical, abject failure.

Stormlord down to 10 capacity.

Wat.

Is it really that bad? I'm new to Heresy so I don't quite understand all of the stats.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Is it really that bad? I'm new to Heresy so I don't quite understand all of the stats.

Yes. some mistakes are clearly copy paste no brainers.

for example Nominus Rhy'tan has a WS and BS of 4, 3 wounds and his power maul is unwieldy all for 215 points

Ash mantle is 315pts for.... god knows what reason for a t6 model

The Excindio class battle autometa is nearly 420pts once equipped for a unit that is likely to turn on you in the game... that is Knight costs in 1.0 its madness.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. I'm just surprised to see it at all.

I've thought about turning a couple of them into terrain pieces. Wonder how well that would work?

 Formosa wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Is it really that bad? I'm new to Heresy so I don't quite understand all of the stats.

Yes. some mistakes are clearly copy paste no brainers.

for example Nominus Rhy'tan has a WS and BS of 4, 3 wounds and his power maul is unwieldy all for 215 points

Ash mantle is 315pts for.... god knows what reason for a t6 model

The Excindio class battle autometa is nearly 420pts once equipped for a unit that is likely to turn on you in the game... that is Knight costs in 1.0 its madness.

Ok, that makes sense, and yeah, that doesn't make any sense. The only unit that currently interests me right now is the Indomitus Terminator one. As for as I can tell, nothing looks too bad.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Is it really that bad? I'm new to Heresy so I don't quite understand all of the stats.

Having looked through it, yeah, it's pretty bad in spots. Just as an example,tThe Salamander Chaplain who was in charge of of defending Nocturn and waking up the dreadnoughts? The man is only WS 4. 4! On a Praetor-Equivalent character, who have 6 (if I recall correctly). And his thunderhammer? The one crafted for him personally by Vulkan? It's only +2, instead of X2, and lacks any other effect, not even Sunder like the base Thunder hammer.

And that's just one example, to mention another, the Salamanders Dreadnought Character? The one in 1.0 that was Av 15, the highest possible in the game? It's Toughness 6 now. Thats it. No other special rules at all beyond the standard dread rules and a way to take him as warlord and force him into a trait.

The Salamanders got hit hard in this one.

To anyone who's game has arrived and knows the scale/fittings, would the Blood Angels Primaris upgrade sprue shoulder pads fit on the beaky Marines from the box? As that'd be pretty convenient if so

Yes because all Space Marine shoulder pads are interchangeable across every single Space Marine in Power Armour.

HeresyFAQ@gwplc.com

This is the address that you can email any issues you spot within the document. I'd recommend the community take the time to discuss it and everyone send them similar lists to show that we do care about these issues. As the document is a PDF, they'll be able to make changes easily and at next to no cost, improving the chances they'll do something.

 Gert wrote:
Yes because all Space Marine shoulder pads are interchangeable across every single Space Marine in Power Armour.

Good, I suspected as much but just wanted to check given all the furore over the special weapons sprue and it's lack of compatibility. £5 of ebay for 9 shoulder pads and a couple of heads seems a lot better than £15 for the Forge World resin ones.

 Gert wrote:
Yes because all Space Marine shoulder pads are interchangeable across every single Space Marine in Power Armour.

While I would personally agree with this, I've heard that others are able to clearly notice differences between the pauldrons or different armor types. Regardless, if someone ever complained to me about this, I'd just tell that that it's Mark V armor and that the pads are from some mark of armor that was discarded before going into full production.

BigOscar wrote:
To anyone who's game has arrived and knows the scale/fittings, would the Blood Angels Primaris upgrade sprue shoulder pads fit on the beaky Marines from the box? As that'd be pretty convenient if so

Yes, like people have said, the power armour shoulder pads are the same size. However note that only six of the shoulder pads on the sprue are normal PA shoulder pads, the other three are slightly bigger gravis shoulder pads (those fit on terminators too.)

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
While I would personally agree with this, I've heard that others are able to clearly notice differences between the pauldrons or different armor types. Regardless, if someone ever complained to me about this, I'd just tell that that it's Mark V armor and that the pads are from some mark of armor that was discarded before going into full production.

What? Dude the parts are interchangeable because all the contact points are the same size. You can use FW upgrades, Firstborn upgrades, or Primaris upgrades on any PA Marine shoulder and they will all fit.

 Crimson wrote:

BigOscar wrote:
To anyone who's game has arrived and knows the scale/fittings, would the Blood Angels Primaris upgrade sprue shoulder pads fit on the beaky Marines from the box? As that'd be pretty convenient if so

Yes, like people have said, the power armour shoulder pads are the same size. However note that only six of the shoulder pads on the sprue are normal PA shoulder pads, the other three are slightly bigger gravis shoulder pads (those fit on terminators too.)

Interesting, I could see they were slightly different but it was hard to tell exactly how. I'm sure I'll find a use for them. (same for the random chainsword and bolt pistol, they'll find a home somewhere)

 Gert wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
While I would personally agree with this, I've heard that others are able to clearly notice differences between the pauldrons or different armor types. Regardless, if someone ever complained to me about this, I'd just tell that that it's Mark V armor and that the pads are from some mark of armor that was discarded before going into full production.

What? Dude the parts are interchangeable because all the contact points are the same size. You can use FW upgrades, Firstborn upgrades, or Primaris upgrades on any PA Marine shoulder and they will all fit.

I know that. All I'm saying is that some people out there, not including myself, care about what mark different pauldrons are from. I was just giving something someone could say if they run into one of those person's.