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Made in gb
Stalwart Space Marine





Hello all.

I bought some centurions on impulse without actually thinking about how I can use them - my question is are centurions worth it in 8th edition or are these models destined for my display cabinet?

My first thought was to put them in a land raider and get them up the table like that but that would be 600 odd points.

My other thought was to use the Ravenguard Strike from the Shadows stratagem to camp on an objective or appear near an enemy and hopefully make the 4" charge (after moving).

Are there other strategies I can use or am I a numpty who should have bought Aggressors instead?

Thanks.
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





Assault Centurions are OK:ish. A tad expensive but they can be made to work.

Devastator Centurions however, are so overpriced that I wonder why GW even bothered to put them in the codex...

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Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine





Baltimore, MD

I'm not sure how good it would be, but I've been thinking of using SftS on Assault Centurions. Maybe drop in a character (chaplain, lieutenant, or captain, depending on what you need) to support them.

2500 pts Raven Guard, painted 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Prosecutor





One of the players in our meta uses them. They sit as Gulliman's bodyguard, slowly grinding towards whatever they want dead. Centurions whose weapon are almost always hitting are pretty fearsome, although you still have to worry about high AP weapons.

The main problem is the lack of wounds on the models. Each one can cost as much as a leman russ, but carry only a fraction of the wounds.

Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.


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Made in gb
Stalwart Space Marine





 MinscS2 wrote:
Assault Centurions are OK:ish. A tad expensive but they can be made to work.

Devastator Centurions however, are so overpriced that I wonder why GW even bothered to put them in the codex...

That was my exact thought - with the default layout they are 330pts.

Assault Centurions are more reasonable at 222pts but not by much.

I just feel daft at having bought them so would like to find a use for them...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Porphyrius wrote:
I'm not sure how good it would be, but I've been thinking of using SftS on Assault Centurions. Maybe drop in a character (chaplain, lieutenant, or captain, depending on what you need) to support them.

What I have realised is that Strike from the Shadows happens before the movement phase so any infantry unit can appear 9" away from the enemy then make their movement and shoot/charge - in the case for centurions with their 4" move, it would be very useful indeed.

Also reaslised that Aggressors fire twice when they haven't moved - Strike from the Shadows isn't a move action so you could have them be 9" away then fire 36 + 2d6 shots against a target and then would be the ultimate distraction carnifex at only 111pts for 3 with 2 wounds each.

Am regretting my purchase of centurions more and more now...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/05 20:52:25


 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

If they could still ride in drop pods, and drop pods were still 35 points, they'd be costed appropriately i think. Their firepower can be absolutely bonkers. But there's no way your opponent is going to see them, and willingly move or drop anything within their threat radius until they're neutralized.

Anything with 6 or less toughness, with no invulnerable save, will die quickly. That's just a fact in 8th edition.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Devcents have one good use: they can fire on the move with no penalty, and make EXCELLENT targets for a babysitting apothecary. If you lose one, you can usually bring him right back.
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Space Marine





 WindstormSCR wrote:
Devcents have one good use: they can fire on the move with no penalty, and make EXCELLENT targets for a babysitting apothecary. If you lose one, you can usually bring him right back.

Do Apothecarys stack - i.e. if I have 2, can they try to bring back the unit if the other fails?

Had a thought about dropping a drop pod with them in next to them when they Strike from the Shadows...
   
Made in us
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant




 WindstormSCR wrote:
Devcents have one good use: they can fire on the move with no penalty, and make EXCELLENT targets for a babysitting apothecary. If you lose one, you can usually bring him right back.


I never bet on that, relying a dice roll of 4+ to pull a miracle will ALWAYS end up in misery.

Devastator have awesome firepower but are toooooo fragile for their points. They are just too expensive that you can't bring mutiples without hurting the list's balance, and they will certainly draw lots of attention. If you go up against Eldar Dark Reapers, Tyrainds Biovoires or Exocrines, or Genestealers, your expensive dudes die like guardsmen, and the Apothecary won't have enough chance to bring them back in time before your 500pts unit being wiped.....
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 WindstormSCR wrote:
Devcents have one good use: they can fire on the move with no penalty, and make EXCELLENT targets for a babysitting apothecary. If you lose one, you can usually bring him right back.

Why does it really matter if they can move and fire with NO penalty? At the range you plopped them into they're not gonna move as most targets will be within range based off how you decided to kit them out.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 WindstormSCR wrote:
Devcents have one good use: they can fire on the move with no penalty, and make EXCELLENT targets for a babysitting apothecary. If you lose one, you can usually bring him right back.

Why does it really matter if they can move and fire with NO penalty? At the range you plopped them into they're not gonna move as most targets will be within range based off how you decided to kit them out.

Reasons to move: terrain, objectives, falling back out of assault range. Devs don't need to be mobile, but it doesn't hurt.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




meleti wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 WindstormSCR wrote:
Devcents have one good use: they can fire on the move with no penalty, and make EXCELLENT targets for a babysitting apothecary. If you lose one, you can usually bring him right back.

Why does it really matter if they can move and fire with NO penalty? At the range you plopped them into they're not gonna move as most targets will be within range based off how you decided to kit them out.

Reasons to move: terrain, objectives, falling back out of assault range. Devs don't need to be mobile, but it doesn't hurt.

They're not durable enough to stay on an objective to capture it, and at 9 wounds at 300+ points they're gonna mathematically survive being charged by a lot of stuff, so there's little potential of getting to fall back (plus if they fall back they can't shoot anyway unless Ultramarines).

So no, I don't buy it. Assault Centurions are neat-ish at least. The Devatstaor Centurions have little purpose.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
meleti wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 WindstormSCR wrote:
Devcents have one good use: they can fire on the move with no penalty, and make EXCELLENT targets for a babysitting apothecary. If you lose one, you can usually bring him right back.

Why does it really matter if they can move and fire with NO penalty? At the range you plopped them into they're not gonna move as most targets will be within range based off how you decided to kit them out.

Reasons to move: terrain, objectives, falling back out of assault range. Devs don't need to be mobile, but it doesn't hurt.

They're not durable enough to stay on an objective to capture it,

That really, really depends on what they're defending it against (if anything). Tactical situations differ.

and at 9 wounds at 300+ points they're gonna mathematically survive being charged by a lot of stuff

Which would be why we don't want them getting charged? By "Falling back", if it wasn't obvious, I mean moving so you don't get charged in the next turn. Not because your centurions just lived through a Khorne Berserker charge or something equally dumb like that.

(mind you, centurions getting charged by non-assault units, like Devifish, is not unheard of). Tactical situations differ.

So no, I don't buy it. Assault Centurions are neat-ish at least. The Devastator Centurions have little purpose.

Well, they're both bad units. But the question I responded to was "why would I need to ever move my Devastators Centurions?" not "why should I take Devastator Centurions so I can crush my next GT?"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/06 04:01:42


 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






LMAO at people who think they are squishy.


Take full squad in a raven guard detachment and stick em in cover. -1 to hit, toughness 5, with a 1+ save. Apothecary or 2 behind them to bring them back. Mabey a librarian to give them a 4++.

They will poon anything big instantly, and not die to anything but the nastiest melee units.


Nids can charge them and tie them up sure, but they wont kill them. 2 full squads of genestealers (40 models wont even get to swing at them usually) wont kill them in one turn.

Lets say you get 20 models in swinging range. 80 attacks hitting on 3 is on average of 58 hits. Wounding on 5 is an average of 19ish wounds, only half of which rend so your looking at mabey 3 dead.

If you took the whole unit of 6 however, you should have killed 3-4 stealers from overwatch, and not even that many would have died. Not to mention they should be screened/placed in a way that a whole squad of stealers couldn't attack them to being with.

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Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Assault centurions can be ok. I ran a squad in a stormraven at a gt heat and I qualified, so they can’t be totally useless. It helps of course that stormravens are great - though their price has gone up a fair bit since then.

SftS is a great option too. It has to be said that they aren’t the sneakiest looking guys ever, but that adds to the comedy.

They are like super-aggressors. The 2+ and extra wound makes them way more durable, sometimes, but point for point they have less shooting. It’s a whole different story in combat though - they hit on a 3+, have ap-4 and do a flat 3 damage, so they go right through things.

Aggressors are certainly better with sfts, but they don’t fit in a stormraven and centurions do (for some reason). So the one way to use them and not wish you’d bought aggressors is in the raven, I think.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






And by that time you're better off buying a second raven.
Just leave them on the shelf or for super casual games where you don't care about the outcome of the game. With less tactics involved, and there's a tendency for it, there's less need for unit diversity. So, inevitebly some units will be left behind. Cents are just one of those units.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/06 10:42:52


 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

 koooaei wrote:
And by that time you're better off buying a second raven.
Just leave them on the shelf or for super casual games where you don't care about the outcome of the game. With less tactics involved, and there's a tendency for it, there's less need for unit diversity. So, inevitebly some units will be left behind. Cents are just one of those units.

I don't agree that cents are so bad that they can only be used in super-casual games.

They are not a fantastic unit, but neither are they awful. Stormravens are pretty good, so the OP is unlikely to regret getting one to transport his cents.

That said, a fire raptor is even better than a stormraven right now... but that's kind of a different topic.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






I'm sure they're not the worst unit out there but the problem is that there are other units that do the same job but better.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




They are not good, in either form.

The best idea I have had was to stick maybe 4 Devastators Centurions with twin lascannon and Hurricane bolters in an Aquila Strongpoint Vortex missile silo. That will give you 8 lascannons zinging out in all directions from a building big enough to have multiple fire lanes. Anything gets close to Assault the building eats 48 Hurricane bolter shots. The missile silo also launches d6 shots that do d6 mortal wounds each so it is a threat by itself.

That’s a whole lot of points though almost impossible to kill.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

 koooaei wrote:
I'm sure they're not the worst unit out there but the problem is that there are other units that do the same job but better.

Maybe, but the OP has got them. I'm trying to suggest ways he can make use of his models, not tell him he should have bought something else.

After all, the alternative is telling him that he shouldn't play marines at all and should instead make the Ynnari list that won the LVO - or figure out a way to beat it. But that probably isn't all that helpful in this context.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






But you've suggested getting a stormraven. That's a good model on it's own that will only partially mitigate centurion's weaknesses and op will still have crappy centurions.

The only real way to make centurions worth playing is to houserule.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/06 13:13:50


 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Space Marine





Mandragola wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
I'm sure they're not the worst unit out there but the problem is that there are other units that do the same job but better.

Maybe, but the OP has got them. I'm trying to suggest ways he can make use of his models, not tell him he should have bought something else.

After all, the alternative is telling him that he shouldn't play marines at all and should instead make the Ynnari list that won the LVO - or figure out a way to beat it. But that probably isn't all that helpful in this context.

This is exactly it - I went on ebay a couple of nights ago, saw some on sale and bought them because I always wanted them when playing 7th edition.

I looked up the 8th edition rules after and thought that they were a bit rubbish tbh so I asked the question how to use them - consensus is that they are a bit rubbish and I probably shouldn't use them which is shame.

Will most likely leave them on a shelf until they get errataed - doubt it as GW will want you to buy their newer toys in Aggressors which seem a much better bet imo but oh well.
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





I lament the huge Nerf my Grav cents took. Used to be a 400 pt unit with grav, missiles, a drop pod, and a Hunters eye Tech marine.

Now its just the 3 cents for the exact same 400 pts.

   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






I've been thinking about getting some but I would have to go 3rd party for the models, I just don't dig the drill fists right now. I want some company to make some centurion-scale dudes with miniguns and meltas on the shoulders carrying giant hammers, mauls, and swords.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Eihnlazer wrote:
LMAO at people who think they are squishy.


Take full squad in a raven guard detachment and stick em in cover. -1 to hit, toughness 5, with a 1+ save. Apothecary or 2 behind them to bring them back. Mabey a librarian to give them a 4++.

They will poon anything big instantly, and not die to anything but the nastiest melee units.


Nids can charge them and tie them up sure, but they wont kill them. 2 full squads of genestealers (40 models wont even get to swing at them usually) wont kill them in one turn.

Lets say you get 20 models in swinging range. 80 attacks hitting on 3 is on average of 58 hits. Wounding on 5 is an average of 19ish wounds, only half of which rend so your looking at mabey 3 dead.

If you took the whole unit of 6 however, you should have killed 3-4 stealers from overwatch, and not even that many would have died. Not to mention they should be screened/placed in a way that a whole squad of stealers couldn't attack them to being with.

1. Wow that sounds scary! Except that is several hundred points for something that's going to get tied up in melee.
2. Now you're spending several points in characters too. You're almost at 1000 points for 8-9 models. Six of those models are only 3 wounds.
3. Why are we only using 20 models? I can buy several more Genestealers for this price point. If you aren't gonna Mathhammer fairly just say so.
4. How are you gonna screen them? You already spent 1000 points on 9 models!

Please stop defending Devastator Centurions. Seriously.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






Think for a second, how are you getting more than 20 genestealers up to them in one turn?

You aren't. You can take about 60 guardsment in a brigade for less than 800 points, so that's a pretty good screen for them.


Realistically if you design your list around the cent devs, and deploy properly, they wont get charged before round 3. They will raep any big threats, and stress your opponent out greatly.

True deep striking gaunts and blood angels will shred your guardsman screen, but you can proceed to destroy that with the 3 units of intercessors hiding behind the guardsmen.

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Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

If you really want to use Devcents the best CT is Salamanders. They will need a CM and Apothecary to baby sit them too.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I hear they make great paper weights.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Eihnlazer wrote:
Think for a second, how are you getting more than 20 genestealers up to them in one turn?

You aren't. You can take about 60 guardsment in a brigade for less than 800 points, so that's a pretty good screen for them.


Realistically if you design your list around the cent devs, and deploy properly, they wont get charged before round 3. They will raep any big threats, and stress your opponent out greatly.

True deep striking gaunts and blood angels will shred your guardsman screen, but you can proceed to destroy that with the 3 units of intercessors hiding behind the guardsmen.

100+ points for a Grav Cannon and Hurricane Bolter is not destroying big threats.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

The only way to run DevCents is las/missile.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
 
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