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Ok, so as the title says,been out since the beginning of 5th edition and started dusting off the IG (i mean astra militarium)

anyways. Am i seeing this correctly, people are recommending plasmagun and LASCANNON?!? for intantry squads?
have things changed that much (autocannon USED to be a no brainer because of the multi-shot and bs3)

Any other advice, or things to be aware of, for an OLD IG player coming back after an extended break

Stormlord wrote:
Ok, so as the title says,been out since the beginning of 5th edition and started dusting off the IG (i mean astra militarium)

anyways. Am i seeing this correctly, people are recommending plasmagun and LASCANNON?!? for intantry squads?
have things changed that much (autocannon USED to be a no brainer because of the multi-shot and bs3)

Any other advice, or things to be aware of, for an OLD IG player coming back after an extended break

Well when plasma's price drops to half and it gets even more powerful it's a no brainer. As for autocannons, the way things work this edition autocannons are a very specialized weapon whereas lascannons are just a general purpose anti "scary thing" weapon. Thanks to the new wounding system, a lot of things they used to hurt on 2's are now only hurt on 3's. This means now their only real specialty is that they're consistent 2 damage long range weapons. So if you see tons of bikes, primaris, terminators, or other two wound units, they can be pretty effective. The problem is with only -1 ap many of their preferred targets are saving on 3's or 4's, so a lot of your shots just bounce off.

Lascannons on the other hand aren't too much more, have -3 AP, wound anything in the game on at least 3's, and deal that oh so crucial d6 damage. It's hard to explain until you try it yourself, it's really noticable in a match.

In addition, this isn't 7th and earlier anymore. You can split fire with EVERYTHING. So IG squads can afford to take dedicated AT weapons and yet don't lose their lasgun shots anymore. This makes the IG infantry squad one of the most terrifying infantry units in the game when properly supported, because they can theoretically tackle any Target in the game. Lascannon and plasma deal with anything tough and the lasguns kill everything else through sheer weight of fire.

Combine that with the raw mathematical efficiency of guardsmen, access to orders, regiment traits, and morale buffs, it actually makes good sense to take the more expensive weapons. It makes it where your opponent must focus on killing a squad all the way because if they don't, lascannons can keep firing with even one man. This often leads to overkill, eating up shots that would be better spent elsewhere, or lack of commitment, meaning the lascannons and plasma keep firing.

"But they're a screen!" Yes, and a screen is no good if the opponent has the ability to ignore it. Those lascannons and plasma ensure that no matter the opponents list, they cannot afford to leave the guardsmen alone. This buys your Stormtroopers, vets, tanks, and artillery more time to do their jobs.

Well then, that make sense
thanks!!

Stormlord wrote:
Ok, so as the title says,been out since the beginning of 5th edition and started dusting off the IG (i mean astra militarium)

anyways. Am i seeing this correctly, people are recommending plasmagun and LASCANNON?!? for intantry squads?
have things changed that much (autocannon USED to be a no brainer because of the multi-shot and bs3)

I'm not sure a Lascannon would be first on my list, but it's not an awful choice either.

There's a couple of reasons for this. First, models can split fire between themselves, and the other is that the Lascannon is just now a much more functional weapon.

Split fire mans the Lascannon can shoot the tank on the other side of the board while the Lasgun guys mow down some foul xenos approaching their position. This resolved many of the issues of previous editions.

Additionally, the Lascannon is a much more versatile weapon in this edition. D6 damage means that most any exposed character (save the most expensive and powerful) risks being insta-vaped by 28pt putz, while superheavy and ultra heavy infantry like Custodes, Hive Guard, etc can be insta-killed with relative ease whereas in older editions they could not. Against vehicles, D6 damage coupled with almost nothing being higher than T8 and normalization of wounds between vehicles and MC's, means that they're much more effective against the majority of both targets now than they were in previous editions. A Lascannon can potentially two shot most MC's in 8E, whereas a Lascannon could never do more than one wound at a time to something like a T6 W6 Tervigon. Against vehicles the fact that you're generally never wounding on worse than a 3+ against even heavy tanks (as opposed to potentially 5+ vs AV14 in 3E-7E) more than overrides things like vehicles still getting minor saves (usually 6+ against an LC) and some light vehicles being wounded on 3's instead of 2's (e.g. Rhinos), and the D6 damage means that vehicles largely tripling or quadrupling their "wounds" (hull points) from 7E is matched by the Lascannon's average "wound" output being increased by a similar amount.

Plasma guns likewise have similarly changed. First, for BS4+ IG infantry, they're much cheaper than for other units like Space Marines or Stormtroopers. The cost better matches the expected output, so they're much more viable. In addition, you can run them safely now at the cost of wounding most things on a 3 instead of a 2 (and doing D1 instead of D2), so you can blam Tac marines a bit more safely if you so choose and then get dangerous when you need to shoot the Dreadnought. Split fire also helps here too.

For 67pts, that's not a bad package.


The Autocannon in the meantime, has become less attractive. It's both more expensive and less capable against vehicles as a result of the wound adjustment, vehicles typically tripling or quadrupling their 7E HP count while the AC only doubled its wound output, while being on par about the same in most other areas, while options like the AC or HB are even better at their roles than before.

EDIT: d'oh, left thread open too long before hitting reply

I find I tend to run plasma/ heavy bolter.

Plasma is guarentee because of its damage output and price

I dont need the AV I have executioners/Cyclops/BA allies for that.

The heavy bolter is relatively cheap in a disposable screen not wasting to many pts still has decent range and firing 5 or 6 of these is still a few dead marines a turn Mortars perform this roll equally well.

lol may just have to try em all out and see what works best for me
as i said i am old school. i dont have any marines to act as allies

i am tyranids and guard (militarum)
and i am not terribly interesting in mixing them

maybe i'll have to pick up something else if i go that route

Vanilla isnt bad either i usually take i squad and stick it in front of my tanks. I think its often more a case of what is in the rest of your list

Well i am gonna start out small...so a quick 1250 list i worked up

Company commander

3 x infantry squads , lascannon, plasmagun
1 x scion squad (7) 2 plasmaguns

1- devil dog
1- scout sentinal with autocannon

1 basalisk
2 leman russ (lascannon, battlecannon)
1 leman russ (nova cannon, brainfart on the model name)

1 valkrie

it works out to 1249 points
71 power
and a decent amount of armor saturation (errr i THINK)

Thanks, guys. This answered a lot of the questions I had without starting a new post. I have a couple to add. (by the way, I'm back into it after an even longer break. I don't think I've played more than half a dozen games since 3rd Edition)

Old-school shoulder-mounted heavy weapons. Can I still use them? I know it's just an ascetic, but I understand a Heavy Weapons team has 2 dudes in it now. Do I need to mount them on one of those big bases, or can I just move the two dudes around together within normal Unit coherency rules? Does the "loader" get to shoot his lasgun, or is he pretty much there for show?

Since I will be able to field about 3 Companies of Infantry, https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/379892.page my theme for this Nostalgia army is "Veterans". As I have about 300 dudes, I have a lot of flexibility on how I equip them. Obviously, it will be a rare occasion when I field the entire army, plus it'll take me about a year to get them painted....ugh. Or more. I left off on my first attempt in 2014.

Anyway, I want the maximum amount of Veteran Squads possible, giving them the maximum amount of Specials. I really love Plasma and I'm quite fond of Melta guns as well. I'm not sure what Command Points do for me yet, but I understand they're important and I want as many as possible. You have any suggestions for me?

I don't care about winning per se, as much as I care about having a bad-ass, heavily converted, decently painted army that wows the f'ing socks off anyone who sees it. And is (mostly) legal to play in an actual GW store. I say mostly because I'm going to make some old-school Assault Squads with my leftover Marine jetpacks and I've got a Commissar on a jetbike...that kind of stuff.

Also, I have a Russ or three, 2 Super-Heavies, maybe 3 Sentinels? Ogryns, I have a squad or two of Ogryns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's what I'm going for...

At a tournament you might have to have your heavys on a large base and personally I modeled mine that way if for no other reason than its advantageous for area control and clear to both you and your opponent.

Command pts are a bonus in guard and why I would normally run a brigade. They are vital with allies who often use more command pts but find it harder to generate them

Sadly commisars and conscripts have gone the way of the dodo thanks to the faq

What? Commissars suck now? C'MON... Where's Commissar Gaunt when ya need him?!? They're so fun to paint...

I guess they're just not needed now that Frenchie Ro-booot Bloo-berrie Gooolemonnnn is the Emperor now. Haw, haw hawh..."Ah stoole ze Emperor's sord!".... Bastards.

Someone tell me the Emperor is still alive in the fluff!! (Ok, I'll settle for 'technically' still alive.)

Stormlord wrote:
Well i am gonna start out small...so a quick 1250 list i worked up

Company commander

3 x infantry squads , lascannon, plasmagun
1 x scion squad (7) 2 plasmaguns

1- devil dog
1- scout sentinal with autocannon

1 basalisk
2 leman russ (lascannon, battlecannon)
1 leman russ (nova cannon, brainfart on the model name)

1 valkrie

it works out to 1249 points
71 power
and a decent amount of armor saturation (errr i THINK)

Hey man, I was just wondering if you had any Idea about Detachments and Command points? I ask this because your list would totally become a Spearhead Detachment (1 HQ, 3 Heavy Support) which grants you 1CP. But, if you added another HW you would have a Battalion (2 HQ, 3 Troops) which grants your 3CP rather then 1. Command Points, or, CPs. Allow you to use "stratagems" that can completely change your game e.g. you can spend 1 CP to re-roll 1 dice of any kind just as long as it wasn't already re-rolled via a different rule, you can use another CP to deal 1 mortal wound on enemy units on rolls of 6+ (IG specific), you can spend 2 CPs to auto pass morale for 1 unit, you can use CPs to give your army more then 1 relic. Etc.

8th edition is completely different to every other edition. As in it's basically done a full 180 and made it self a different game compared to what you probably remember.

If I was to start out man, I would definitely get yourself the 8th edition Rulebook, Chapter Approved and your IG codex. Any rule booked prior to 8th wont work in this edition and anyone that tries to play 8th using the 7th edition rule book is going to miss out on a lot of things and get a lot of information messed up (I played against a guy who was using 7th edition list building and Detachments and tried taking CPs by saying his army fit in all of the categories)

The good thing about you is that you have been out of the game for so long that you won't find the rules all that difficult to learn and play.

Hope you enjoy yourself man.

Stormlord wrote:
lol may just have to try em all out and see what works best for me
as i said i am old school. i dont have any marines to act as allies

i am tyranids and guard (militarum)
and i am not terribly interesting in mixing them

maybe i'll have to pick up something else if i go that route

Well, if you want to mix, Genestealer Cults might be worth a look.

 Odrankt wrote:

Stormlord wrote:
Well i am gonna start out small...so a quick 1250 list i worked up

Company commander

3 x infantry squads , lascannon, plasmagun
1 x scion squad (7) 2 plasmaguns

1- devil dog
1- scout sentinal with autocannon

1 basalisk
2 leman russ (lascannon, battlecannon)
1 leman russ (nova cannon, brainfart on the model name)

1 valkrie

it works out to 1249 points
71 power
and a decent amount of armor saturation (errr i THINK)

Hey man, I was just wondering if you had any Idea about Detachments and Command points? I ask this because your list would totally become a Spearhead Detachment (1 HQ, 3 Heavy Support) which grants you 1CP. But, if you added another HW you would have a Battalion (2 HQ, 3 Troops) which grants your 3CP rather then 1. Command Points, or, CPs. Allow you to use "stratagems" that can completely change your game e.g. you can spend 1 CP to re-roll 1 dice of any kind just as long as it wasn't already re-rolled via a different rule, you can use another CP to deal 1 mortal wound on enemy units on rolls of 6+ (IG specific), you can spend 2 CPs to auto pass morale for 1 unit, you can use CPs to give your army more then 1 relic. Etc.

8th edition is completely different to every other edition. As in it's basically done a full 180 and made it self a different game compared to what you probably remember.

If I was to start out man, I would definitely get yourself the 8th edition Rulebook, Chapter Approved and your IG codex. Any rule booked prior to 8th wont work in this edition and anyone that tries to play 8th using the 7th edition rule book is going to miss out on a lot of things and get a lot of information messed up (I played against a guy who was using 7th edition list building and Detachments and tried taking CPs by saying his army fit in all of the categories)

The good thing about you is that you have been out of the game for so long that you won't find the rules all that difficult to learn and play.

Hope you enjoy yourself man.

i just noticed that someone else had responded!
lol when i made this, i was only vaguely aware of the CP and strategems
i was borrowing a buddies AM codex to make a list

i've since picked up my own and i am trying to figure out what i can utilize for a 2nd or either 3rd HQ
one more fast attack and HQ and thats another CP

thinking of running a second command officer or commissar lord and making the executioner a tank commander
or perhaps trying to find a primaris psyker for some psychic defense

Stormlord wrote:
Well i am gonna start out small...so a quick 1250 list i worked up

Company commander

3 x infantry squads , lascannon, plasmagun
1 x scion squad (7) 2 plasmaguns

1- devil dog
1- scout sentinal with autocannon

1 basalisk
2 leman russ (lascannon, battlecannon)
1 leman russ (nova cannon, brainfart on the model name)

1 valkrie

it works out to 1249 points
71 power
and a decent amount of armor saturation (errr i THINK)

good list! Only thing I'm not a huge fan of is the devil dog (basic Hellhound is SOOO GOOD right now its hard to justify either of the other two). If the nova cannon is the eradicator (the one that used to flush models out of cover) I'd just recommend running another Battlecannon or swapping to a Punisher, because honestly the Eradicator is pretty worthless now.

With how cover currently works, it basically gets 1 more AP against units in cover, vs the battlecannon which gets 2 more strength and puts it at that magic number 8 (S8 is a big deal in 8th not because of any kind of math but because many many vehicles are T7).

But yeah, that's a fine little list you can play with several different regiments with success.

think its the eradicator nova cannon yes.
unfortunately i think the regular battle cannon got cut up for a conversion :/

i actually have two of the devil dogs, built and painted. i was concerned with anti-tank and friggin primarchs!! running around (been out since 5th! can you tell)
i wonder if i still have the parts to convert back if i need to

yeah i need a few more HQ choices and i think i'll be in a good place

Build up a brigade.

Mortars are also great in 8th. If you have the bits make mortar HWS

i got the bits to make 7 mortar squads!
i need more big bases!

probably going to repurpose some of the old missile launcher crew bases since they seem to be out of favor this edition


Automatically Appended Next Post:
sorry to specify
7 mortar bases! not entire squads