Switch Theme:

Tactica: Mutalith Vortex Beast  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




With the new Thousand sons codex comes possible the most tactically flexible units in the game.

With 4+/5++, 14 wounds and regenerating a wound a turn it is point for point, really quite survivable.
In combat it's ok to good depending on buffs from itself and other units (bonus strength, to hit and AP all improve things significantly).

But were it really shines is the vortex powers:
1 - Warp Flare
Good against MSU armies, especially if you have a few beasts clustered together. But obviously of most use when the beast gets damaged, Mortal wounds on everything in 18" is just insane against most list. Combs really well if you have some of the character sniping psychic powers to root out annoying aura characters before close combat.

2 - Chaotic Infusion
I imagine this will get use the most, especially combat focused chaos soup list, as unlike most auras it just needs the Tzeentch keyword (demons, marines, whatever). Special mention on the synergy with Pink horrors and flamers, easy to make their shooting even more scary and once you get them to Str5+ charging into combat starts being a solid option.

3 - Temporal Flux
Situation-ally quite useful, but nothing that can't be done with other units/powers/command points.

4 - Ephemeral Touch
Similar to Chaotic infusion. No shooting synergy, but having the option to buff combat units Str or AP means you can really maximise the benefit of both (buff str until you are wounding on 3+ then buff AP will usually be a solid choice).

5 - Maelstrom of Madness
Not good compared to the others, but can be used to combo with Treachery of Tzeentch if your that way inclined. Warp flare is going to be just better 95% of the time.

6 - Beam of Unreality
In my mind another nice to have, but you'll usually get better values from other options unless your beast is left stranded away from decent buff-able units/good combat targets.



The part I'm struggling with is how to build an army around them. Their defensive makeup mean they are more suited to list with lots of vehicles for target saturation, but the powers are better suited to large horde units, thus they will probably work best in mixed armies with a few large (20+) assault units (or pinks) to target with buffs and several high toughness targets.

The other option is to just forget the buffs (most of the time) and field lots, charge them forwards in a group and dump out mortal wounds all over the place. 5+ in a group will scare all but the highest body count armies.

Thoughts on the newest beasty in town?
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





I like it, although I'm looking for an alternative model as I'm not too keen on the current one.

Sadly GW no longer sell TK-sphinxes...

5500 pts
6500 pts
7000 pts
9000 pts
13.000 pts
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I quite like the model, but unfortunately it's not very pose-able so will have to do some converting if you want to run multiple without your army looking very dull.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 MinscS2 wrote:
I like it, although I'm looking for an alternative model as I'm not too keen on the current one.

Sadly GW no longer sell TK-sphinxes...


I love the idea of using Arielle's big beetle.

DFTT 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




*Current meatspace coordinates redacted*

The efficiency of buffs is directly indexed to how many models benefit and to what degree. Tzeentch demons and Tzaangors seem like the units that fit that bill best. Neither is expensive per model, and the demons especially get full value out of the buffs available.

Target saturation is definitely the key though I think 4 beasts is probably the least number that will accomplish that, and 5 or 6 might be better. Even if you threw a tank or two down they won't distract a motivated opponent from targeting the beasts. Maybe secondary targets that are themselves good targets for the buffs. Something with speed and punch.

Speed in general and the ability to tie up enemy shooting is probably also something to try and build in - it might be a better option than just straight spamming Beats. DS demons could fill that role with proper planning. Maybe some Alpha Legion for board control to open up DS lanes. Long range AT seems counter to the general aims of the list, at least as far as synergy goes, but I don't relish the thought of playing without any at all. Something to think about.

I'm going to futz around and see just how fast and in your face this list can be. Maybe it can get away with a minimum of long range options (or even none). Demon princes with wings, webway strikes, DS demons, and judicious use of warptime could be enough. I do really like the idea of getting up close and personal and stacking buffs and MW with the Beasts though. Should be a fun list.

He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah, I'm thinking some hell-drakes to tie up ranged threats would help the beasts survive longer then either big units of Tzaangors or pink horrors to make the most of the buffs.

I love the idea of buffing Pinkies to Str5+, shooting valuable backfield units then charging to clear chaff (once buffed by a few beasts even brimes become some what of a combat threat). They would also get double the benefit of prescience/re-roll 1s auras.
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




The vortex beast is interesting because their buffs can stack and are not affected by the rule of one. Furthermore, their buffs can benefit both Tzaangors and Horrors, and can stack with the considerable buffing of shamans, reroll 1 auras, boon of change, heralds, veterans of the long war, diabolic strength etc. The beast itself is not a Daemon and as such it can itself be buffed by the Heretikus and Change spells, all-though those are in short supply and probably better used elsewhere.

I don't think you would need additional beasts for target saturation, as there should be plenty of that in a TS list already.

But even unharmed, I think the beast is probably marginal. At the end of the day, if you are paying 150 points to buff 210 points of horrors, then you are almost certainly better served by just getting an additional mob of horrors. And while vortex Power 2 and 4 are super good, the rest are situational enough, that you are probably rarely going to roll for two powers. I think it is a pass.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Using the vortex beast with a mob or two of chaos spawn is a pretty interesting prospect, though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/10 10:16:52


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I disagree. I know what you're saying about 150 point model buffings 210 points of horrors. But in an army that has lots of buff already, the ability to focus on increasing one unit is often better that just having more units.

E.g. 30 horrors with Str5, +1 to wound, re-roll 1 to hit and 1 to wound, is potentially much more effective than two units with half of those buffs each (and 60 horrors are hard to get all in range of a good target).

90 shots fully buffed with deal about 51 saves on anything T4 or less or 41 saves to anything T5-8. Not to be sneezed at.

Also you obvious still have the beast around to eat face and vomit mortal wounds once you get closer.





   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




*Current meatspace coordinates redacted*

It's certainly useful to be able to stack buffs where needed on the Horrors/Flamers. While less efficient, sometimes spreading the love around is the right move. If you throw some Changecasters into the mix you can have S5 on a bunch of different units all at once.

The mortal wound stacking has the potential to be vicious too when it's laid down on top of what KSons and Demons can already throw in the Psychic phase (even with beta Smite taken into account).

I'm not convinced that Mutalith spam is quite top-drawer good, but there's enough mojo there I think it's worth playtesting and fooling around with to see how it actually does on the table.

He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 MinscS2 wrote:
I like it, although I'm looking for an alternative model as I'm not too keen on the current one.

Sadly GW no longer sell TK-sphinxes...


Seriously? wtf gw that was an amazing model....

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Hoping to field a list with 5 of these beasties tomorrow, will see how they fare beyond theory-hammer.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




How'd it work out?

I had for a bit about a list with 4-5 Mutaliths, some brimstones and some characters as the only things on the board. T1 you advance as far as you can and deepstrike in the rest of your arm, a mix of horrors and tzangors to be buffed and charge from there. It has the perk of target saturation on T1 as everything is a mutalith.

My biggest concern with this approach is that mutaliths aren't actually that tough against small arms fire with only a 4+ save. And their pretty expensive. So the target saturation may not actually work out to your advantage...

Something like
Ahriman
Mutalith x4
30x tzangors w/ blades

Deamons Battalion
Deamon Prince
Fluxmaster/changecaster or something
20x pinks
20x pinks
10x brimstones

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/16 22:48:56


 
   
Made in fi
Fresh-Faced New User




So, I'm not a chaos player myself, but had the misfortune of running against these things yesterday, when my opponent fielded three of them. To put it simply, they are unholy rape-machines due to their powers, and for 150 pts a piece cheap as sausage.

To put it in perspective, my opponents list was following(1750 pts game);

Ahriman
2 x Demon Princes
3 x Rhinos w/havoc launchers
2 x 10 Rubric Marines w/ Sorcerers
2 x 10 Cultists
3 Mutalith Vortex Beasts
3 Chaos Spawn(or whatever they are called, ugly fethers).


And I had the following;

2 x Troupe Masters
Shadowseer
3 x 5 player Troupes
2 x 6 Skywevers
3 Starweavers
2 Death Jesters


I lost the game, and main reason IMHO for it was the three Mutalith Vortex Beasts. Due to their high wounds, high toughness, inv. saves and regeneration, just about only thing in my army that could effectively damage them were fusion pistols. Which have a range of 6". Basically this means that I had to bring all my troupes + HQ in starweavers to very close range of these fethers to even attempt to bring them down, at which point their overlapping Warp Flare auras and TWELVE melee attacks made very short work of Starweavers. I managed to bring two out of the three Mutaliths down eventually, but at this point they had destroyed more than 600 points worth of my models(3 Starweavers, troupe master, 10 troupers and reduced Shadowseer to 1 wound. Oh, and several already damaged Skyweavers were also killed who just happened to be within 18" because of Warp Flare).

So, especially against heavily close-combat oriented, small number of models army like Harlequins, Mutaliths are very effective. You can just march a group of them towards objective and your enemy must do something to stop them. If that something doesn't seemingly involve lascannons or smite spam(which many armies simply can't provide, at least not without allies) I don't really know what would be good against them. For example, yesterday one of the Mutaliths got 20 hits from Shuriken Cannons(S6) in one turn, and took only one wound from it.

IMHO they are one of the hardest units I have ever faced, and I have played this game quite a some time. Three overlapping Warp Flares simply erode the infantry(and to be honest, everything else too) away like nothing else I have seen yet, on top of which comes TWELVE melee attacks. I swear, these pieces of daemon-gak are so imbalanced that I wouldn't be surprised if Matt Ward had a hand in their creation.




   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Bay area, CA

I see quite often Agressors who just put something around ~200 shoots every turn and kills everyone within 24'. I do not think Beasts can deal with them, don't they?
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: