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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-02-08-relic-leaves-dawn-of-war-3-behind-as-it-moves-on-to-new-projects

Apparently the sales after changing it to an rts/moba hybrid weren't good enough to justify further development. Did it even get any proper DLC beyond just some characters/skins? That makes two AAA entries to great franchises axed for the time being in the past year without even any real DLC released (the other being Mass Effect Andromeda).

Free content aside, nothing.

It's just too radical a departure from the previous two games.

Well that's disappointing.

The constant "It's a moba!" makes me think that if Warcraft 3 was released nowadays people would hate it's hero system apparently. Getting sick of anything with hero units now being labled moba in the most haphazard genre way.

Not surprising given the reception and player numbers, but still sad. I like the game.

The micromanagement of every unit doesn't help either. If one or two units have a special ability, good. But if almost every unit has some sort of special ability that needs your attention to properly pop, no thanks.

Shame though, the super-heavies were fun to play around with, the game should've made more use of those instead, maybe akin to the Tiger singleplayer campaign from Company of Heroes, or the Tanks multiplayer mode.

 Cream Tea wrote:
Not surprising given the reception and player numbers, but still sad. I like the game.

More or less my take, I thought the game was okay(ish) but a distinct step down from the prior games and it felt a smidge bland

I didn't pick it up, but it is a shame to see something like this fail.

The 'phases' system was a clever idea to try to encourage comebacks as many RTS can snowball, but I heard it didn't really work in practice.
However, Relic is known for experimenting with the RTS formula and with that sometimes you get a dud!

The campaign of DoW II remains the highlight of the series for me.

DOW II's campaign is excellent. A perfect way of portraying a fraction of a Chapter at war, trying its best to keep their worlds under control.

While I've got nothing against the linear approach of DOW III, the plot was telegraphing pretty hard towards a predictable ending with a horrible gimmick final mission.

Biggest shame though, we'll never get to see what they were planning to do with the post-credits stinger.

It was too uneven. You built these giant armies, they get blown up very quickly, you just keep building more. Once you get ahead against an opponent, you pretty much can't lose. And vice versa.

I would love to have loved it.

Too bad, not sad.
Focus on making a good game next time, not chasing trends.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Well that's disappointing.

The constant "It's a moba!" makes me think that if Warcraft 3 was released nowadays people would hate it's hero system apparently. Getting sick of anything with hero units now being labled moba in the most haphazard genre way.

A MOBA will usually have the following:

Creeps: AI that you get "money" for killing

Heroes: Playable characters that have something that makes them different from other Heroes

Ancient: A "base" that each team has one of and the objective is to kill your opponents'

Resources: Upgrades and consumables bought from the "money" earned from killing creeps

Limited amount of Arenas: Games do not stress map knowledge, but instead resource usage

DOW3 had

Creeps: everything that wasnt a hero was just a buildable shield for them, summoned or built, kinda the same.

Heroes: Identical to a MOBA

Ancient: The Core, so name swap.

Resources: this is the same for most RTS games, so wont hold it against DOW3

Arenas: DOW3 had this too, limited lane attack areas.

So people called DOW3 a Moba because thats what it was, it tried to straddle the MOBA/RTS market and sucked at both, they made they game they wanted to make, not the game we wanted to play, so it failed and rightly so, they were told throughout development by the fanbase that this game looked like crap, they ignored the fans and it shows, we voted with our wallets.

Another casualty of the Internet Hordes. Doesn't matter if its an AAA game, no big company is going to spend money trying to fix the complaints against that much rage. Even if they spend the million to rebuild the game, most internet presences would still hate it on general mob principals.

Same thing happened to ME3. EA gave it a shot and then gave up, only doing the promised DLC content.

Putting a hard focus on multiplayer first, campaign second is also something of a departure. The previous games have all been solid (YMMV from game to game obv) single player experiences first, multiplayer games second for the most part.

As is though, I think that the Blood Ravens - Eldar Farseer whose name I've forgotten - Gorilla Ork who is the unofficial mascot of the series arc has finally come to an end, no real loss there.

Should there ever be a new take at a proper 40K RTS, we'll hopefully see another Chapter in the limelight.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Another casualty of the Internet Hordes. Doesn't matter if its an AAA game, no big company is going to spend money trying to fix the complaints against that much rage. Even if they spend the million to rebuild the game, most internet presences would still hate it on general mob principals.

Same thing happened to ME3. EA gave it a shot and then gave up, only doing the promised DLC content.

Yes, it's the customers' fault that the companies gave them a game in both situations that deviated significantly from the formula that made the series a success. Yup, it's our fault that EA rushed MEA out the door knowing it was lacking polish because it was farmed out to foreign inexperienced teams and that Bioware took much needed staff from it in the last year of development to work instead on the (then) next year's Anthem. Totally our bad that they had to change focus on MEA midway through the development cycle to drop their procedurally generated universe even though we didn't know it existed. Same thing with DOW... I've never played a MOBA but it's partly my fault for secretly wanting those genre mechanics/tropes in what was previously a successful RTS. Totally our fault.

Honestly probably a good choice. Sometimes something is not just broken, but its reception is so poor that you can't keep throwing good money after bad. Relic would likely have had to rebuild so many core parts of the code to fix the game in the way many kept calling for; meanwhile trying to promote a game is hard if your community doesn't share your vision.

Honestly in a way its a good thing for RTS in general in that its keeping RTS and MOBA separate as features; it shows that they are two very different markets. For RTS that is, in theory, a good thing as it shows that there is demand for RTS and that demand can't be met with moba.

Hopefully Relic can keep the contract/licence and work on a further game. They might drop Dawn of War just to give it a new title. Heck Warhammer TW has done fantastically well and, honestly, that isn't a vast departure form the solid standard gameplay style that Total War has had since Shogun.
So in theory Relic can go right back and make a Dawn of War 1 style game (heck its what people have been asking for for a long time).

I'd be sad to see them lose the contract; there's a huge amount of work they've put into things - heck the engine titans and units culd be re-used in a new title.

I don't think GW is too bothered and asking for them to drop the IP, they've got their money, they don't care too much.

 warboss wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Another casualty of the Internet Hordes. Doesn't matter if its an AAA game, no big company is going to spend money trying to fix the complaints against that much rage. Even if they spend the million to rebuild the game, most internet presences would still hate it on general mob principals.

Same thing happened to ME3. EA gave it a shot and then gave up, only doing the promised DLC content.

Yes, it's the customers' fault that the companies gave them a game in both situations that deviated significantly from the formula that made the series a success. Yup, it's our fault that EA rushed MEA out the door knowing it was lacking polish because it was farmed out to foreign inexperienced teams and that Bioware took much needed staff from it in the last year of development to work instead on the (then) next year's Anthem. Totally our bad that they had to change focus on MEA midway through the development cycle to drop their procedurally generated universe even though we didn't know it existed. Same thing with DOW... I've never played a MOBA but it's partly my fault for secretly wanting those genre mechanics/tropes in what was previously a successful RTS. Totally our fault.

Its not an issue of fault - its a natural result. In this day and age there is very little chance of a middle ground in which an audience will give a game a second change. If a game raises any controversy that series is effectively done. I very much doubt that Dow4 would be given a fair shake any more than a ME4 or No Man's Sky 2. As the Internet provides a giant echo chamber for the disaffected even small problems become great ones and the only hope is to offer a brand new experience that people can't judge on. So Me4 becomes Anthem. Dow4 will become something else (Heroes of the Imperium? Warhammer: Universe at War?). I don't think there is a solution since its a natural effect of the Internet.

Actually I would say that a second game can restore faith very easily with the market if the developer follows what hte market wants and addresses issues with the first game.

The issue is that normally a major game that gets a huge backlash normally represents a major investment by the company. So when the game fails there's often less money left in the pot to invest into a future game; plus investors are less likely to want to jump on board. So many times the company ends up closing doors (heck companies that release good games also close doors -its a very risky market); or they wind up a bit like Kerberos is now (after their failed Sword of the Stars 2 disaster) whereby they basically lack resources to make anything bigger to the same scale of what they once did so they get stuck in the dolldrums of smaller niche games hoping to rebuild savings or just keep ticking over.


I bet if relic released a Dawn of War 4 they could market and sell it well; heck if it was basically Dawn of War 1 with upgraded graphics, a few new units and races, chances are it will sell like crazy.

After they updated DoW3 to include classic game types I liked it much more. There was definitely a promising game under there, it's a big shame in my opinion that it's not going to get any new races.

Oh well, there's always Soulstorm.

Soulstorm, now that there is IMHO the bottom of the barrel for this franchise.

 warboss wrote:
Relic abandons DOW3

Wouldn't you?

That one looked awful right from the first previews. They abandoned their core audience, chased after the MOBA/E-Sports crowd, made a game that didn't do either, gave it an atrocious art style, and even went so far as to remove sync-kills.

This result isn't surprising.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Its not an issue of fault - its a natural result. In this day and age there is very little chance of a middle ground in which an audience will give a game a second change.

There are lot of quality video games being released all the time, so naturally people aren't going to waste time and money on games that don't make a good first impression.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

If a game raises any controversy that series is effectively done. I very much doubt that Dow4 would be given a fair shake any more than a ME4 or No Man's Sky 2.

I don't think Hello Games ever planned for a No Man's Sky 2. Given that it's procedurally generated it seems like they intended to patch it forever; maybe release some paid DLC. After all, that's what Elite: Dangerous and Star Citizen were doing; the problem was that Hello Games was trying to emulate an established franchise and the guy that made Wing Commander.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

So Me4 becomes Anthem.

Anthem is the result of the success of the Destiny franchise.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Dow4 will become something else (Heroes of the Imperium? Warhammer: Universe at War?). I don't think there is a solution since its a natural effect of the Internet.

I think Relic could manage the latter one. They've got Homeworld under their belt and DoW2, especially with Chaos Rising, has the strategic element; though I don't think they have the license for the ships. But what you describe isn't the result of people trashing games on the internet, it's the result of the popularity of MOBAs as an Esport and the success of that business model.

Anthem is the result of the success of the Destiny franchise

well, the destiny 1 business model. Destiny 2 is sinking like a stone in comparison, so the 'franchise' definitely isn't driving imitation.

And just wait until more people cotton on to the fact that thei creators' absurd contract obligates them to a destiny 3 and forced obsolescence again.

 BrookM wrote:
Soulstorm, now that there is IMHO the bottom of the barrel for this franchise.

Why say that? I understand that most people liked the campaign for Dark Crusade better, but the gameplay is the same with more races. Plus, Sister of Battle are awesome to play.

There was some massive glitches, many issues with loading and memory leaks, many balance issues as a result of the new factions and the aircraft weren't really designed for this sort of thing.

Ah, I personally didn't experience many bugs so I wasn't really aware of that. I just like having access to the full range of races and units when compared to the previous expansions.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
There was some massive glitches, many issues with loading and memory leaks, many balance issues as a result of the new factions and the aircraft weren't really designed for this sort of thing.

Very much this, along with some broken mechanics that weren't properly fixed, some horrible story choices / oversights and whatnot.

This was due to the developer, Iron Lore Entertainment going under either during or shortly after developing the game, can't remember the exact details, but they are responsible for the mess. It didn't help that Relic never fixed things post release either.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Another casualty of the Internet Hordes. Doesn't matter if its an AAA game, no big company is going to spend money trying to fix the complaints against that much rage. Even if they spend the million to rebuild the game, most internet presences would still hate it on general mob principals.

Same thing happened to ME3. EA gave it a shot and then gave up, only doing the promised DLC content.

What total and utter nonsense. You seriously think that they would drop the game *only* because of "Internet Hordes"? Because of "rage"?

It was reviewed average because it was an average game. It got a bad reaction from much of the DoW fanbase because it was a bad DoW game. It sold badly(relative to the company's expectations) because not enough people liked it to pay for it. Simple as that.

I know it's a nice wee ego stroke to think everyone else is a moron suffering from herd mentality while you stride above it all, a colossus of will and intellect, but the reality is most folk are no less capable of making their own decisions based on their own preferences than you or anyone else.

EDIT: Oh! You kept going. Then I'll conclude by saying only this - the idea that Bioware being tasked with Anthem had anything to do with MEA's success or otherwise is just factually wrong. MEA was shuffled off to be developed at a support studio because EA wanted Bioware producing Anthem. Indeed there's a solid argument that that decision - placing a big franchise in the hands of a studio not used to the responsibility under a huge time pressure - is what led to MEA's issues(such as they were, I enjoyed it more than ME2 & 3) in the first place.

EA wants to sell "services"(ie, thinly veiled microtransaction vehicles), not games, that's why MEA got the short end of the stick and why Anthem exists, not some ridiculous "internet horde theory". And just to preempt what would doubtless be your reply; I'm no more "raging" than most of the people who expressed some modest level of dislike for MEA or DoW3, but I do get annoyed when people allow their affected cynicism to distract people from the actual problems in the industry which do in fact deserve to provoke some ire, which can be summed up by the word "Publishers".

 Yodhrin wrote:


It was reviewed average because it was an average game. It got a bad reaction from much of the DoW fanbase because it was a bad DoW game. It sold badly(relative to the company's expectations) because not enough people liked it to pay for it. Simple as that.

I think part of the issue is that they lost a good chunk of the base to how polarizing DoWII was, and while DoWIII attempted to bring back some of the scale that people missed by the time it came out no one who walked away came back to even try DoWIII. The fans who stuck with the series through DoWII then had the same reaction to DoWIII that those who left DoWII had.

Everyone got into the series because of DoW. Then the sequels were in varying strides too different from why people got into the series in the first place. I think the franchise just kept bleeding its user base of players while failing to bring in anyone new until it ended up with too few players to keep going. I don't know that the quality of the games even mattered.

I for example, am I die hard DOW player, who still plays DOW2 competative multiplayer every week.
I have still not purchased a copy of DOW3, even in the sale at any point, and nor do I have any interest in doing so.