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Updated

Sure, might check it out

1500-1850 points? Forgeworld allowed?

I do not use Facebook due to career

Yeah, I also don't use Facebook for career reasons so info here would be great!

2000 points , up to 3 detachments. Using missions from CA. Will be all eternal war or posssiby a few Maelstrom mixed in. All rules queries revert to latest GW faq. No painting requirement but models must be WYSIWYG or reasonably close. FW allowed

Why no painting requirement, out of curiosity?

No painting?

No thanks

That nearly kills the event's sportsmanship/hobby/meet up and get games in with fully painted forces from around the tristate area

There will be awards for painting and armies as separate prize support. I not really a fan of excluding people from being in the event. That’s the reason for the separate prize support. To recognize the hobby. Regarding sportsmanship in all the events I’ve run we never had a problem , I’m hoping it stays like that. Also a lot of the local guys don’t have fully painted armies.

This is the first major tourny at this venue - as a NJ resident I am stoked that i don't have to fly to cali (BAO) or LV (LVO) or London (London GT) to play in a decent sized tourny.

60 participants is a start but if the turnout is strong who knows for the future. It makes sense to be less inclusive (unpainted) as this is the first run of a tournament scene at a venue that is clearly trying to grow.

I mean I would rather it run ITC than CA but frankly as a beginning this is great!

orkswubwub wrote:
This is the first major tourny at this venue - as a NJ resident I am stoked that i don't have to fly to cali (BAO) or LV (LVO) or London (London GT) to play in a decent sized tourny.

60 participants is a start but if the turnout is strong who knows for the future. It makes sense to be less inclusive (unpainted) as this is the first run of a tournament scene at a venue that is clearly trying to grow.

I mean I would rather it run ITC than CA but frankly as a beginning this is great!

We did have St Valentines Mass GT for a few years. I'll see who is going from the South Jersey / Philly Area

Thanks for the support. We do have room for more than 60. So depending on player support the sky is the limit for amount of players. Regarding ITC there are some things of our own we are working on. In the store alone we can host a 38 person tourney. So there will be some details and announcements soon. We are also running tourneys every month or so and now have a 40K league with 23 people signed up in the first 2 weeks. Any event we do is always about creating a fun environment for our players. Fun and good time always first.

Lots of tournaments out here don't require painting (Diamond Winter Blast comes to mind as a recent one). It's not an uncommon rule for the region.

Despite that, usually only 1 or 2 people show up unpainted. Thanks, Haldir!

While I appreciate you want to be more inclusive to get your tournament to a good number of participants, it is a bad precedent for the hobby to not require fully painted armies.

If people want to play with unpainted models (I do it all the time) to try out new armies/lists, that is totally fine in 'pick up' games are your local store. But in an organized tournament format, I do think that not enforcing at least some level of painting does the hobby a disservice.

Not a criticism to you personally and wish you good luck with the tournament.

Thank you , there will definitely be rewards for painting. Fine line to walk to make everyone happy. Even with WYSIWYG issues , that’s sometimes a problem too. My main armies (AM , Nids) are fully painted , but I don’t think I’ll get to play:(

No painting pass. We had a group of like 6-8 who may have come but no painting requirement means its not really a GT. I can play local events with no painting requirement all the time. We travel so we can play in the highest level of competition and if people cant paint their army for events then they don't care and the event wont be worth it. Thanks though and good luck!

Just throwing my hat in. I can see both sides and appreciate it.

I think the argument, that most are saying is. People with unpainted armies play a different tier, sometimes way more competitive and bring the most broken and ridiculously strong list.

So is this ITC? What are awards?
You could make the rewards and payouts for categories with fully painted armies and sportsmanship the highest rewards.

Where you could make just battle points still something, but much lower rewards.

Best over all
2nd over all
Best painted
Best sportsmanship

And then best General (just points)

If its ITC, reward ITC to best over all, which includes painted?

Not sure if this helps or hurts, not trying to tell anyone what to do. Just throwing my 2 cents in as a long time tourney player.

 Icelord wrote:
No painting pass. We had a group of like 6-8 who may have come but no painting requirement means its not really a GT. I can play local events with no painting requirement all the time. We travel so we can play in the highest level of competition and if people cant paint their army for events then they don't care and the event wont be worth it. Thanks though and good luck!

Everyone's entitled to an opinion but I do take issue with "unpainted means it's not a GT". You know both NOVA and ITC do not require painted armies, right? The ITC only requires painting to receive prizes and I think NOVA only requires it to receive painting/sportsmanship prizes. So yes, it can absolutely be a GT without paint. Heck, last year there was even a team called the Grey Tide that literally painted every model just 3 different shades of grey and nothing else.

Alright, I'll get off the soapbox here.

I over spoke I guess (hard to always be accurate on my phone) yes it is a large tournament but leaving out a major part of the hobby to me is a major turn off to the event. No one from my area will really be attending as the rules are a turn off. It’s kool though, not trying to argue as you can run what you want but as far as excluding players who aren’t painted, you are losing more imho from not requiring it.

Hope it works out well for you! Have fun!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also yea itc doesn’t necessarily require painting but you would be hard to find many events that don’t. The itc is a rules guideline not a tournament so not exactly the same thing.

Guys regarding ITC they do great work. There are some things we are working on to do on our own (details coming soon).Due to overwhelming support we just tripled our retail space after 2 months of being opened. The new spot holds space for a 38 person tourney. So there will be some things going on to lead to yearly “super bowl “ . I.E. Triumph. As always every event we do is with providing the type of event the majority of players enjoy and wish to attend. You can’t always make everyone happy but at Mythicos Studios we will always do our best regarding events and the store itself.

Haldir wrote:
Guys regarding ITC they do great work. There are some things we are working on to do on our own (details coming soon).Due to overwhelming support we just tripled our retail space after 2 months of being opened. The new spot holds space for a 38 person tourney. So there will be some things going on to lead to yearly “super bowl “ . I.E. Triumph. As always every event we do is with providing the type of event the majority of players enjoy and wish to attend. You can’t always make everyone happy but at Mythicos Studios we will always do our best regarding events and the store itself.

That's great! Good luck to you guys! Hope your events are very successful

Taking your input and that of the other local gamers I’m considering the following

5 rounds
Day 1 - 3 rounds of EW from CA and 2 rounds of Maelstrom from CA day 2 .

10 point scoring system (50% generalship - 50 % soft score)

Prior to round 1 all the players will put their armies on the table for an armies on parade view by the judges. To be scored as such
0- for non painted
1- for table top quality
2: Outstanding work
The score you receive by the judges will be applied to your score each round. MAX 2 points per round

Sportsmanship
0- My opponent was not fun to play against
1: He was okay but could have done things differently to enhance the game for both of us.
2- My opponent was super and would like to play him again . Max 2 points per round

Time
If the game is completed on time both opponents receive 1 point . 1 POINT per round.

Generalship
5 points for a win.
3 points for a draw
0 for a lost.

3 detachments 2000 points , include power levels in your list.

Thoughts..

Haldir wrote:
Taking your input and that of the other local gamers I’m considering the following

5 rounds
Day 1 - 3 rounds of EW from CA and 2 rounds of Maelstrom from CA day 2 .

10 point scoring system (50% generalship - 50 % soft score)

Prior to round 1 all the players will put their armies on the table for an armies on parade view by the judges. To be scored as such
0- for non painted
1- for table top quality
2: Outstanding work
The score you receive by the judges will be applied to your score each round. MAX 2 points per round

Sportsmanship
0- My opponent was not fun to play against
1: He was okay but could have done things differently to enhance the game for both of us.
2- My opponent was super and would like to play him again . Max 2 points per round

Time
If the game is completed on time both opponents receive 1 point . 1 POINT per round.

Generalship
5 points for a win.
3 points for a draw
0 for a lost.

3 detachments 2000 points , include power levels in your list.

Thoughts..

I like it, but I would suggest a bit higher for scores on paint and sportsmanship. (No penalty for army comp though, let people bring the broken and the wicked, that is subjective to the player. Some people will think anything is broken)

If I can make it, Id play by the rules you listed above, but I would like to see more rewards/benefits for painted army.
Also fully painted , good , bad or ugly, to obtain best ITC points/prizes.

Your willingness to make some changes will have a positive effect, none the less.

I would also do away with both players getting points on time. If LVO taught us something , it is games may not finish, but it could definitely be one players fault.

Actual playing ability and scoring should never be less than 50%. Some of us are going for the actual gameplay and consider the modelling ancillary :p

I am really not a fan of having the painting contribute to the scoring - i run a fully painted army and enjoy that portion of the hobby but am FAR from a master painter. Let the table results speak for themselves. Either run the event as painted required or not painted required. This middle ground is murky.

I would also suggest removing the sportsmanship points - poor sportsmanship in a competitive setting is very subjective - take for example LVO where the one player forgot he had to deepstrike at the end of his movement phase and his opponent dropped the hammer on him. Also my friend (relatively new) forgo tot move his flier and his opponent told him as soon as movement was over that it was destroyed. Neither of these things are not allowed by the rules but open up the perspective of sportsmanship.

If you want a sportsmanship award run it separately is my two cents and either require fully painted or allow unpainted, and if you want increase the prize incentive for painting! But please don't cross this with tournament points.

orkswubwub wrote:
I am really not a fan of having the painting contribute to the scoring - i run a fully painted army and enjoy that portion of the hobby but am FAR from a master painter. Let the table results speak for themselves. Either run the event as painted required or not painted required. This middle ground is murky.

I would also suggest removing the sportsmanship points - poor sportsmanship in a competitive setting is very subjective - take for example LVO where the one player forgot he had to deepstrike at the end of his movement phase and his opponent dropped the hammer on him. Also my friend (relatively new) forgo tot move his flier and his opponent told him as soon as movement was over that it was destroyed. Neither of these things are not allowed by the rules but open up the perspective of sportsmanship.

If you want a sportsmanship award run it separately is my two cents and either require fully painted or allow unpainted, and if you want increase the prize incentive for painting! But please don't cross this with tournament points.

^ This is good too ^

Guys there is a comp pac we are working on that I feel will be inclusive regarding prize support / recognition for everyone.

Audustum wrote:

 Icelord wrote:
No painting pass. We had a group of like 6-8 who may have come but no painting requirement means its not really a GT. I can play local events with no painting requirement all the time. We travel so we can play in the highest level of competition and if people cant paint their army for events then they don't care and the event wont be worth it. Thanks though and good luck!

Everyone's entitled to an opinion but I do take issue with "unpainted means it's not a GT". You know both NOVA and ITC do not require painted armies, right? The ITC only requires painting to receive prizes and I think NOVA only requires it to receive painting/sportsmanship prizes. So yes, it can absolutely be a GT without paint. Heck, last year there was even a team called the Grey Tide that literally painted every model just 3 different shades of grey and nothing else.

Alright, I'll get off the soapbox here.

Actually this is false. Nova/ BAO, LVO and most GT level Tournaments have a minimum 3 color paint requirement to participate. You might find some armies lacking in the paint area as well as an occasional rogue army that isn't painted but to claim these Tournaments do not have a minimum paint requirement is just plain incorrect.
It's your tournament so choose your format.. But in most cases players who are willing to travel to a tournament would prefer to not play against gray armies all weekend. That is usually reserved for 1 day RTTs

You might also want to consider making it an ITC scoring tournament. You can play any missions you want but it would still generate points.

orkswubwub wrote:
This is the first major tourny at this venue - as a NJ resident I am stoked that i don't have to fly to cali (BAO) or LV (LVO) or London (London GT) to play in a decent sized tourny.

60 participants is a start but if the turnout is strong who knows for the future. It makes sense to be less inclusive (unpainted) as this is the first run of a tournament scene at a venue that is clearly trying to grow.

I mean I would rather it run ITC than CA but frankly as a beginning this is great!

Actually Battle for Salvation has been hosting a GT level Tournament at the Palisades Mall in Nyack on Columbus Day weekend for the past 9 years. No need to fly to the west coast or London to be able to participate in a GT close by you.

 zedsdead wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Icelord wrote:
No painting pass. We had a group of like 6-8 who may have come but no painting requirement means its not really a GT. I can play local events with no painting requirement all the time. We travel so we can play in the highest level of competition and if people cant paint their army for events then they don't care and the event wont be worth it. Thanks though and good luck!

Everyone's entitled to an opinion but I do take issue with "unpainted means it's not a GT". You know both NOVA and ITC do not require painted armies, right? The ITC only requires painting to receive prizes and I think NOVA only requires it to receive painting/sportsmanship prizes. So yes, it can absolutely be a GT without paint. Heck, last year there was even a team called the Grey Tide that literally painted every model just 3 different shades of grey and nothing else.

Alright, I'll get off the soapbox here.

Actually this is false. Nova/ BAO, LVO and most GT level Tournaments have a minimum 3 color paint requirement to participate. You might find some armies lacking in the paint area as well as an occasional rogue army that isn't painted but to claim these Tournaments do not have a minimum paint requirement is just plain incorrect.
It's your tournament so choose your format.. But in most cases players who are willing to travel to a tournament would prefer to not play against gray armies all weekend. That is usually reserved for 1 day RTTs

You might also want to consider making it an ITC scoring tournament. You can play any missions you want but it would still generate points.

orkswubwub wrote:
This is the first major tourny at this venue - as a NJ resident I am stoked that i don't have to fly to cali (BAO) or LV (LVO) or London (London GT) to play in a decent sized tourny.

60 participants is a start but if the turnout is strong who knows for the future. It makes sense to be less inclusive (unpainted) as this is the first run of a tournament scene at a venue that is clearly trying to grow.

I mean I would rather it run ITC than CA but frankly as a beginning this is great!

Actually Battle for Salvation has been hosting a GT level Tournament at the Palisades Mall in Nyack on Columbus Day weekend for the past 9 years. No need to fly to the west coast or London to be able to participate in a GT close by you.

Not to derail the thread, but I always source when called.

ITC

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bUs0HrJ3f6YzR6mWlT1LRLq0i9_0ekf7ah9WhCTxsIo/edit

"The ITC suggests that in order for a player to be eligible for any prize support, all models in their army must be painted to a 3 color minimum and based".

It's a suggestion, not a command and it's only for prize support.

NOVA's primer is currently down and being written for 2018 so I can't give you a link now (wish they'd archived the 2017 one).

well not being eligible for any prizes is pretty much a non endorsement of unpainted Armies but I will concede that its a bit of hair splitting.

Also.. that's the ITC basic rule on it. I am pretty sure BAO and LVO ruled that non painted units were not allowed in play and in some cases removed ?

Nova has a 3 color minimum. BFS uses there rues pack and it included the rule.

 zedsdead wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Icelord wrote:
No painting pass. We had a group of like 6-8 who may have come but no painting requirement means its not really a GT. I can play local events with no painting requirement all the time. We travel so we can play in the highest level of competition and if people cant paint their army for events then they don't care and the event wont be worth it. Thanks though and good luck!

Everyone's entitled to an opinion but I do take issue with "unpainted means it's not a GT". You know both NOVA and ITC do not require painted armies, right? The ITC only requires painting to receive prizes and I think NOVA only requires it to receive painting/sportsmanship prizes. So yes, it can absolutely be a GT without paint. Heck, last year there was even a team called the Grey Tide that literally painted every model just 3 different shades of grey and nothing else.

Alright, I'll get off the soapbox here.

Actually this is false. Nova/ BAO, LVO and most GT level Tournaments have a minimum 3 color paint requirement to participate. You might find some armies lacking in the paint area as well as an occasional rogue army that isn't painted but to claim these Tournaments do not have a minimum paint requirement is just plain incorrect.
It's your tournament so choose your format.. But in most cases players who are willing to travel to a tournament would prefer to not play against gray armies all weekend. That is usually reserved for 1 day RTTs

You might also want to consider making it an ITC scoring tournament. You can play any missions you want but it would still generate points.

orkswubwub wrote:
This is the first major tourny at this venue - as a NJ resident I am stoked that i don't have to fly to cali (BAO) or LV (LVO) or London (London GT) to play in a decent sized tourny.

60 participants is a start but if the turnout is strong who knows for the future. It makes sense to be less inclusive (unpainted) as this is the first run of a tournament scene at a venue that is clearly trying to grow.

I mean I would rather it run ITC than CA but frankly as a beginning this is great!

Actually Battle for Salvation has been hosting a GT level Tournament at the Palisades Mall in Nyack on Columbus Day weekend for the past 9 years. No need to fly to the west coast or London to be able to participate in a GT close by you.

Happy to hear of another GT. But if you are like me playing in more than one local GT a year is enjoyable

Guys , I’m hoping to have the comp up for next week. The prize structure will be focused on covering as many aspects of the hobby as possible. Details coming soon...