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If I opt to Deep Strike a Hemlock (or Crimson Hunter) using the Cloudstrike Stratagem, does it crash and burn when I bring it in?

Cant see anything that means the Hemlock has moved more than its minimum distance when coming in from Deep Strike?

Edit - I realise it says under the Reinforcements section that models count as having moved in their Movement Phase - I guess I just wanted confirmation that this would satisfy their minimum move to stop them crashing and burning?

From 'Minimum Move' on page 177 of the main rulebook:

Some models that can FLY have a Move characteristic consisting of two values. The first is the model’s minimum speed – in the Movement phase, all parts of the model’s base must end the move at least that far from where they started.

Since they started off the board, how do you measure to where they started?

Do you need to store the unit off the board at least its minimum move distance before bringing it in, just so you can claim the base moved at least that far?

 Ghaz wrote:
Since they started off the board, how do you measure to where they started?

By flying them thematically over the board making a "shooooom" noise as you do and announcing that they're "coming in hot" from the point you measure???

In all seriousness from a RAW perspective, this is the problem I had - the rules for reinforcements say they moved "for all rules purposes" what it doesn't say is how far they've moved - because moving / not moving the minimum has an impact on the rules and there's no way to determine how far they've moved from an imaginary starting point in the clouds.

Do you interpret "for all rules purposes" as meaning they've satisfied their minimum move for those rules purposes; or they've moved but they haven't satisfied the minimum move for those rules purposes and the crash?

shakul wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Since they started off the board, how do you measure to where they started?

By flying them thematically over the board making a "shooooom" noise as you do and announcing that they're "coming in hot" from the point you measure???

In all seriousness from a RAW perspective, this is the problem I had - the rules for reinforcements say they moved "for all rules purposes" what it doesn't say is how far they've moved - because moving / not moving the minimum has an impact on the rules and there's no way to determine how far they've moved from an imaginary starting point in the clouds.

Do you interpret "for all rules purposes" as meaning they've satisfied their minimum move for those rules purposes; or they've moved but they haven't satisfied the minimum move for those rules purposes and the crash?

RAW, I have no idea. RAI, I can't imagine GW expects your deep striking airplanes to crash immediately BECAUSE they deep struck. In any game I'm playing in, I would allow the deep striking to count as minimum move.

I am being serious. How do you measure to where the Hemlock was at the start of the Movement phase when you don't place it on the board until the end of the Movement phase?

 Ghaz wrote:
I am being serious. How do you measure to where the Hemlock was at the start of the Movement phase when you don't place it on the board until the end of the Movement phase?

There are two answers.

1.) You literally measure the inches from where the Hemlock was sitting, off the board, possibly on another table, in a foam case, or even in another room, to where it currently sits
2.) You can't, the game breaks

Unclear. Discuss with your opponent before playing. Needs to be FAQed. The Flyer arrives at the end of the movement phase. I would say that it used it's minimum movement to get where you placed it.

I agree, it's unclear. My personal answer is it crashes, because if you can't say any distance it moved, you can't say it moved its minimum.

Same reasoning for a cloudstriking Fire Prism - you can't answer the question of how far it moved, so you don't get the extra shot from moving less than half its movement stat.

Or didnt actually arrive during the movement phase, so you dont have to worry about the crash and burn

 Cream Tea wrote:
I agree, it's unclear. My personal answer is it crashes, because if you can't say any distance it moved, you can't say it moved its minimum..

Without a valid starting point to measure from, you can't say the model did or did not move it's minimum distance. The model moved X inches, but we have no way to determine the value of X.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ian wrote:
Or didnt actually arrive during the movement phase, so you dont have to worry about the crash and burn

The stratagem clearly states that the Flyer arrives "... at the end of any of your Movement phases...".

This is from another thread dealing with defining if the end of the phase still counts as during

..............So when you declare that you have moved your last unit you have to declare thats the end of the movement phase (the final part). Because these actions have to happen at a specifid time your forced to define the end.

End = the final part = subjective based on your own view point

Does it happen when all the units have moved? you have used all your during actions? or is it just when you decide to say its the end "part" now so i can deploy my unit declare a stratagem and still pick a unit to move because its still the movement phase?

End =the termination of = a clear defined point
I have finnished my movement phase

A helpfull point mite be to look at things that happen at the begining of the first battle round but before the first turn begins. Its point in time that has no name defined only by what its not

The end of the movement phase
Is a point in time defined by what it is not........



Automatically Appended Next Post:
My view point is once the end has happen then it is not that phase anymore

Or we could look at the Leman Russ FAQ as precedent and logically conclude that the vehicle counts as having moved its maximum value.

And we could also not be ridiculous and suggest that deploying a vehicle via a valid means destroys it. Clearly not intended.

I would say it moved it's maximum value for all purposes when coming in like that. It's the answer that doesn't break the game and makes the most sense, they are flying in from high orbit after all, that's got to be more than 20".

ian wrote:
This is from another thread dealing with defining if the end of the phase still counts as during

..............So when you declare that you have moved your last unit you have to declare thats the end of the movement phase (the final part). Because these actions have to happen at a specifid time your forced to define the end.

End = the final part = subjective based on your own view point

Does it happen when all the units have moved? you have used all your during actions? or is it just when you decide to say its the end "part" now so i can deploy my unit declare a stratagem and still pick a unit to move because its still the movement phase?

End =the termination of = a clear defined point
I have finnished my movement phase

A helpfull point mite be to look at things that happen at the begining of the first battle round but before the first turn begins. Its point in time that has no name defined only by what its not

The end of the movement phase
Is a point in time defined by what it is not........



Automatically Appended Next Post:
My view point is once the end has happen then it is not that phase anymore

So you're saying that the end of the phase is actually after the phase, making it the beginning of the next phase? So does that mean the Cloudstrike stratagem is actually used in the Psychic phase?

Not the psychic phase but the time inbetween just like the forward operatives stratagem which happens at the begining of the first battle round but before the first turn . It happens inbetween the deployment and the movement phase they have chosesn to mark a point in the game without giving it a simple name ie " infiltrate phase " or somthing like that

If it was worded like this

At the end of the movement phase but before the physic phase


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It would be more clear cut ,

I guess i am just trying to find at what point do the rules say a phase has ended


Automatically Appended Next Post:
if i declare that its the end of my movement phase does that mean its now the physic phase,

There's already a thread about that debate: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/750779.page

Thank you thats where i posted in the thread, it was primarly about during vs the last thing to be done.

Im still questioning when does it become the end of the phase how do we define that

Here is somthing to think about if its still the movement phase when the flyer comes down does this happen

I have just finnished moving all my units
i now say its the end of the movement phase
So i can now bring in my flyer
I now say its the end of the movement phase

The same thing is happening twice





Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the flyer is arriving inbetween phases

Another question then in the same vain, i cloud strike a fire prism which get to shoot twice if it moves less that half. How far did it move? It just states that it moved and can shoot as normal, so heavy weapons at -1 to hit but do i get double shots still?

Unknown. Talk to opponent. RAW breaks the game as there's no real answer to that.

vaurapung wrote:
Another question then in the same vain, i cloud strike a fire prism which get to shoot twice if it moves less that half. How far did it move? It just states that it moved and can shoot as normal, so heavy weapons at -1 to hit but do i get double shots still?

Using the Leman Russ 'Grinding advance' FAQ answer as precedent/guidance, it has moved its full Movement allowance so cannot fire twice.