Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

When using pistols in close combat, do we include weapon traits, or just the basic profile? For example: Scarce for a Plasma Pistol or Rapid Fire for an Autopistol.

The rules don't say otherwise. So, yes to all. Remember,pistols only get one attack in H2H (but can get multiple hits, if Rapid Fire).

Wait. You're saying to roll ammo dice, for example, during close combat?

The rules for pistols use in close combat make no exceptions for ammo dice, or weapon traits. So, with nothing to say otherwise, yes to ammo dice rolls during close combat..

Now, that don't mean an FAQ wont contradict me minutes after I post. Cause, that keeps happening to me.

The rules for close combat simply say you can use weapons with the Melee or Pistol trait. The only exceptions it lists for pistols is that they only get 1 attack and do not get their Accuracy modifier for range. Nothing in the rules text should make you think any other part is different.

Tho spreading out Rapid Fire shots amongst multiple models would be an interesting discussion, I bet.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Wait. You're saying to roll ammo dice, for example, during close combat?

Necromunda rulebook, pg. 57, ADVANCED SHOOTING, The Firepower Dice wrote:When making an attack with a ranged weapon (including firing a pistol in close combat), roll a Firepower dice at the same time as the hit roll even if the hit roll is not made - for example, if the target is out of range then the shot automatically misses, but the Firepower dice must still be rolled).

The Autopistol might be able to use Rapid Fire in combat, but would run into the discussion that Lord Blackfang mentions.
The stub gun is... difficult. The profile is the original rulebook has Pistol. Gang War 1 includes that basic profile (with Pistol), but also introduces the rules for dumdum rounds. The profile for dumdum rounds does not include Pistol. A typo, or a deliberate balance decision? Leaked pictures of the Gang War 2 weapon table shows that neither the basic profile nor the dumdum profile has Pistol. Typo? Deliberate choice? Who knows.
The laspistol is the only cheap pistol that doesn't have any rules issues. There were originally some queries about whether the Escher prices for lasguns and laspistols had been swapped around by mistake, but GW explicitly said that they were correct. EDIT: Scratch that. Baxx is right - the thread in which I heard that claim didn't actually include the evidence for it. I apologise for spreading misinformation. Anyhow, it therefore looks like all three cheap pistols have rules that are clear as gak.

Mallich wrote:
but GW explicitly said that they were correct.

Did they though? This has been claimed counltess times on this forum. I keep asking 'where is this source?' but I never get an answer.

Do you have a source for your claim that "GW explicitly said they were correct" about the Escher Lasgun costing 1/3 of the Trading Post price while the Escher Laspistol costs 100% of the trading post price?

I would make the opposite claim: Escher Laspstol costing the same as the Trading Post Laspistol is an obvious mistake. Lasgun costing only 5 credits is an obvious mistake. I have never heard GW say anything about this is correct. Pistols always costs less than guns in Necromunda. Laspistol and Lasgun was not split in different categories in Underhive book, making it easy to swap them if you had to look at that while writing GW1 (where weapons are split by category). If Escher are supposed to have cheaper las weapons, why is one weapon 10 credits cheaper and the other weapon 0 credits cheaper? If not, why is the lasgun so cheap while the laspistol is full price?

Andy Hoare said on the Twitch feed last Thursday that access to cheap lasguns for House Escher is deliberate, so I’ll take that as being deliberate (if not very accessible ).

In what context was this said? Because I have no problems with Escher having cheap lasguns and that this is deliberate choice made by GW.

Having laspistols100% price and lasguns 33% price is something I do have a problem with, specially since both weapons originally had a 5 credits Escher discount in the Underhive book.

Also, I havn't seen this come up in the forum yet but we ran into it last session we where playing. In close combat you use your un modified weapon skill to fire your pistol, not your ballistic skill as the rules state any attacks in close combat use weapon skill. Is this something other people have been doing?

Well, I'll be switched. I hadn't noticed the ammo dice need for pistol use in close combat.

trojax wrote:
Also, I havn't seen this come up in the forum yet but we ran into it last session we where playing. In close combat you use your un modified weapon skill to fire your pistol, not your ballistic skill as the rules state any attacks in close combat use weapon skill. Is this something other people have been doing?

Yes, all attacks in close combat use a Weapon Skill check.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Andy Hoare said on the Twitch feed last Thursday that access to cheap lasguns for House Escher is deliberate, so I’ll take that as being deliberate (if not very accessible ).

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. OK, I am a little. But, I will bet there is an implied fiduciary consequence in "officially" admitting something in a rulebook is wrong. That could imply an FAQ is needed. Or, reprints of the book should be changed. For something small, just give a "reason." No matter how implausible, or contradictory. That's exactly how I get out of working on half the stuff my wife tells me needs to be "fixed."

Baxx wrote:
In what context was this said? Because I have no problems with Escher having cheap lasguns and that this is deliberate choice made by GW.

Having laspistols100% price and lasguns 33% price is something I do have a problem with, specially since both weapons originally had a 5 credits Escher discount in the Underhive book.

It was part of a discussion about the different Houses' fighting styles, and how some people think the Escher aren't as good as the Goliaths in the boxed game - the cheap lasguns are there to give the Escher plenty of long-range suppressive firepower.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gobbla wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Andy Hoare said on the Twitch feed last Thursday that access to cheap lasguns for House Escher is deliberate, so I’ll take that as being deliberate (if not very accessible ).

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. OK, I am a little. But, I will bet there is an implied fiduciary consequence in "officially" admitting something in a rulebook is wrong. That could imply an FAQ is needed. Or, reprints of the book should be changed. For something small, just give a "reason." No matter how implausible, or contradictory. That's exactly how I get out of working on half the stuff my wife tells me needs to be "fixed."

There wouldn't be a reprint. An erratum, yes, but an FAQ/errata document is on the way anyway.

With the help of the new Orlock deck, we can now use any non-blast non-template weapon in close combat as a pistol. So for example heavy stubber with rapid fire (2)

Is that an Orlock specific card? Or just one included in their deck? I can see that being pretty useful for other gang's decks.

That is a generic card for any gang, "POINT-BLANK SHOT".

Use it during a charge or fight action, pick a ranged weapon without the Blast or Template trait. For one turn, treat it as pistol.

Just the thought of using a heavy bolter in close combat is thrilling

The Orlock cards are nice; I love the fact that yu can give a free saw-off to someone in your gang for a game; always fun to do.

The only buggy thing is that they do not sell the cards seperatedly nor the Core book! 'Got to buy the box to get those..

A lot of them feel like watered down older cards, tho.

"Ignore a flesh wound" is pretty weak compared to "the hit never happened, remove all damage and unpin" the Goliaths get. There's a watered down Parting Shot in it too.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
A lot of them feel like watered down older cards, tho.

"Ignore a flesh wound" is pretty weak compared to "the hit never happened, remove all damage and unpin" the Goliaths get. There's a watered down Parting Shot in it too.

Is it a generic compared to the Goliath one or Orlock.

Due to all of the irregularities with the prices in the books, we have decided to use the community rulebook from Yaktribe for all of the weapon prices. At least until a FAQ comes out.

When using a pistol in close combat, does it shoot (and so use its profile) or not (and so use the ganger's profile) ?

You use the pistol's profile. The strength of the fighter cannot in any way affect the impact of the bullet. Well... unless you actually punched the pistol into the guts of the opponent and fired it inside the body?

More precisely, only a single attack can be allocated to a pistol; any others have to be made with another melee weapon, or as unarmed attacks.

You roll to hit using your WS. Accuracy modifiers on the pistol's stat line don't apply. Remember to roll the firepower dice too - Rapid Fire and Ammo Roll rules still apply.

As an example, I had a ganger charged by an Orlock with two autopistols the other night. The Aorlock got 1 Attack from his profile, +1 for having two weapons, +1 for charging. Three Attacks in total. He could make one of those attacks with one autopistol, one with the other and the third would be an unarmed attack.

As it turned out, one of the pistols jammed, and the target survived. In the next round of fighting, the Orlock only got 1 Attack (he was no longer charging, and since one gun was jammed, we ruled that it no longer counted as a useable weapon, so didn't grant the +1 A bonus).

A charging Leader armed with a pistol and knife would get 4 Attacks (2 from the profile, one for two weapons, one for charging). With any other melee weapons, those four attacks would be split equally between the two weapons. However, since one is a pistol, it can only be assigned one attack. The other three would be assigned to the knife.

So, it is quite useful to take plasma pistol, especially for Eschers as they are lacking in Strenght, thanks !