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Ive been thinking a lot about durable units like plagueburst crawlers of late.

But what do we Imperials have? What’s our best point for point unit vs shooting?

My buddy recons that it’s Bullgryns with 4++ shields. Make em a 2++ with psyker + stratagem. But that’s a hefty amount of points for any kind of sizable unit.

Can we do better?

EDIT:

Thanks for the responses so far. I did mention “point for point” to those suggesting titans. Not really a bargain points wise haha.

There are some very durable characters, made even more durable due to simply being characters that can’t be targeted.

Mostly looking for regular units here.

Budzerker wrote:
Ive been thinking a lot about durable units like plagueburst crawlers of late.

But what do we Imperials have? What’s our best point for point unit vs shooting?

My buddy recons that it’s Bullgryns with 4++ shields. Make em a 2++ with psyker + stratagem. But that’s a hefty amount of points for any kind of sizable unit.

Can we do better?

Leman Russ battletanks are super durable, but the 1st price probably goes to valhallan infantry squads in cover.

Is there anything being more durable than a Warlord Titan??

If you want the most durable Imperial unit under 1000pts, I think it might be Guilliman, mostly due to not being able to be targeted by range weapons unless being the closet guy.

Celestine w 2x guards
Unlimited reviving
And a free get out of jail card if someone has a lucky round and is able to kill her once.

Custards. Seriously...

Shield Captain on a jetbike with 3++ and 5++ FNP is pretty rugged.

Depends on what you consider durable. If you're shot with a lazcannon, a guardsman is 6 times more durable than a leman russ tank point for point. If you're shot by a bolter, a tank is around 2-3 times more durable than a guardsman. So, if you want an average durability, it's probably a guardsman.

Psibuffed Warlord Titan.

Rhino, T7 3+ at 7 points per wound.

Including FW, I think is the Dreadnought Chaplain.
T7, 3+, 5++, 6+++ and depending on the Chapter and Warlord Trait may add another 5+++ and/or -1 to hit.
Also, it's a Character you cannot target and has a plethora of Stratagems (like the DA one to have a 5++ vs Mortal Wounds) to additional buffing. And a Tech-priest may repair him.
Juicy for 120 points (13 points /wound, like a Marine)

Culexus assassin. Cant be targeted by psychic powers, only gets hit on 6+, has 4++. 85 pts.

BA captain on bike. T5, W6. Can use a SS for 3++, can get 5+++, rerolling 1s. ~100-140 pts.

 p5freak wrote:
Culexus assassin. Cant be targeted by psychic powers, only gets hit on 6+, has 4++. 85 pts.

BA captain on bike. T5, W6. Can use a SS for 3++, can get 5+++, rerolling 1s. ~100-140 pts.

Neither of these are super durable though. The culexus is hard countered by anything with prescience, anything near a Tzaangor shaman or banner-nob, dark reapers, flamers or ork shooting in general.

The BA captain dies to smite, death hex or any kind of mortal wound spam, like kraken genestealers, squiggoths, koptas etc

pismakron wrote:

Neither of these are super durable though. The culexus is hard countered by anything with prescience, anything near a Tzaangor shaman or banner-nob, dark reapers, flamers or ork shooting in general.

The BA captain dies to smite, death hex or any kind of mortal wound spam, like kraken genestealers, squiggoths, koptas etc

BA captains 5+++ rerolling 1s works against any wounds. Which imperial units are more durable point for point ?

 p5freak wrote:

pismakron wrote:

Neither of these are super durable though. The culexus is hard countered by anything with prescience, anything near a Tzaangor shaman or banner-nob, dark reapers, flamers or ork shooting in general.

The BA captain dies to smite, death hex or any kind of mortal wound spam, like kraken genestealers, squiggoths, koptas etc

BA captains 5+++ rerolling 1s works against any wounds. Which imperial units are more durable point for point ?

Custodes Shield Captain on Bike with relic? 160 points: T6, 2+/3++/5+++ and 7 wounds?

Bullgryns can easily get either a 0+ or a 2++ vs shooting.

At 42 pts each with a maul, that's 14 points per T5 wound.

 p5freak wrote:

pismakron wrote:

Neither of these are super durable though. The culexus is hard countered by anything with prescience, anything near a Tzaangor shaman or banner-nob, dark reapers, flamers or ork shooting in general.

The BA captain dies to smite, death hex or any kind of mortal wound spam, like kraken genestealers, squiggoths, koptas etc

BA captains 5+++ rerolling 1s works against any wounds. Which imperial units are more durable point for point ?

Rhino or valhallan infantry squads.

Thanks for the responses so far. I did mention “point for point” to those suggesting titans. Not really a bargain points wise haha.

There are some very durable characters, made even more durable due to simply being characters that can’t be targeted.

Mostly looking for regular units here.

Budzerker wrote:
Thanks for the responses so far. I did mention “point for point” to those suggesting titans. Not really a bargain points wise haha.

There are some very durable characters, made even more durable due to simply being characters that can’t be targeted.

Mostly looking for regular units here.

Custodes bike squad. 270 points. T6 12W 2+/4++

The defence line warlord as it has no statline it cant be attacked or killed

pismakron wrote:

Rhino or valhallan infantry squads.

How is a rhino more durable than a BA captain with 3++ and 5+++ rerolling 1s ? Two lascannons shot can take out a rhino, while the captain can walk way without a scratch.

ADL can not be destroy /thread

The Grey Knight dreadknight grandmaster can have a 2++ when buffed by a psychic power and 2CP stratagem on a T6, 12 wound model for 255ish. No FNP and without the strat best he can do is a 2+/3++

 p5freak wrote:

pismakron wrote:

Rhino or valhallan infantry squads.

How is a rhino more durable than a BA captain with 3++ and 5+++ rerolling 1s ? Two lascannons shot can take out a rhino, while the captain can walk way without a scratch.

The captain is as expensive as two rhinos. Two rhinos has 20 wounds, while the captain has six wounds. Against las-cannons that is pretty much a wash. But against autocannons, rokkits, assault-cannons, smite etc, the rhinos are much, much tougher.

Librarian Dreadnought is pretty beefy.

T:7, W:8, Character so can't be targeted unless he's the closest model, good psychic defense (can deny one smite or similar mortal wound source), a 3+ armor save and a 5++ save with shield of Sanguinius. In addition, he has superior mobility with wings of Sanguinius allowing him to move 18" a turn before charge moves, so 30" max threat range if you roll boxcars on the charge roll. He's also hitting on 2+ and wounding on 2+ against nearly everything short of a big superheavy, at -4 AP.

All that for 172 points (with the storm bolter on the right arm), or 21.5 points per wound. I'm sure there are others that are a little more efficient, but that one is hard to top.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

pismakron wrote:

The captain is as expensive as two rhinos.

What ?? I suggest you use the costs for 8th edition. A captain with SS, stormbolter, chainsword, gift of foresight and death visions of sanguinius is 91 pts. A rhino is 72 pts. Where is that as expensive as two rhinos ?? Even buffed to the max a captain, with SS and TH, is only 110 pts. Add a JP and he is 129 pts. Still not as expensive as two rhinos.

Imperial guardsmen in cover.

Carab Culln the Risen. Assuming you're using Iron Hands as your Chapter Tactics for Red Scorpions and you're giving him Iron Resolve as a Warlord Trait he's a 16W T8 model with a 2+ save, a 4+ Invulnerable save, and three different 6+ FNPs (his own, Chapter Tactics, and Iron Resolve).

He may be 360pts, but he'd stand up to enough firepower to drop three Marine Captains with Storm Shields and walk away (especially if you pump him to T9 with Might of Heroes). (Depending on what the firepower is he might not walk away smiling, but he'll walk away.)

And put Armour of Contempt on him and he's ignoring 60% of mortal wounds that phase, so bring on the Smite-spam.

My normal custodian squad (w/shields) was shot by kastellan robots. They died. Barely. Seriously, barely. Those robots are f*n lethal (no joke) and with two rounds of shooting (in one turn, that's their thing) they managed to exactly kill this one custodian squad. One less save and the squad leader would have survived.

Sure, I lost that game but I still think this a testament to their endurance.

 RedCommander wrote:
My normal custodian squad (w/shields) was shot by kastellan robots. They died. Barely. Seriously, barely. Those robots are f*n lethal (no joke) and with two rounds of shooting (in one turn, that's their thing) they managed to exactly kill this one custodian squad. One less save and the squad leader would have survived.

Sure, I lost that game but I still think this a testament to their endurance.

Just because of the 2+/3++, or is there something else at work here? How many in the squad?

Crusaders + Psyhic Barrier. Gives you 2++ unit of up to 10 guys that can possibly move 12" a turn for 150 pts.