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Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




London UK

I keep seeing this phrase that WYSIWYG is dead but I don't understand it. Is this simply because the rulebook no longer has the stipulation?

Do tournaments enforce this rule? I don't play in tournaments but hope to soon. (I'm a very slow painter).

Do people you meet in casual pick up games mind?

In my gaming group and all my previous gaming encounters it is still the thing. So in your experiences do you let it slide or enforce it and what shades of grey are acceptable?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/17 10:50:01


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I've literally never heard anyone saying this. If anything, power levels have strengthened the need for it.

Of course what people choose to do in their private games is their prerogative.
   
Made in au
Flashy Flashgitz






I recently went to Cancon and none of the opposing armies I played against were strictly WYSIWYG. Conversions were everywhere, non GW models, loadouts that didn't have an official model (e.g. inferno pistol seraphim). My army had boyz in it with shootaz that were actually slugga/choppa, but I brought 180 boyz and they were all the same on paper (all slugga/choppa). People didn't care because the army was clear.
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

I don’t think it’s been a formal rule for a while.

From a tournament POV, it eliminates a lot of misunderstandings and potential for abuse. On a more casual level, it is still a nice things to have, as the game can flow more smoothly.

As a community I think we strive for WYSWYG. While nice to have, I think most people are willing to temper it with common sense. Things like basic gear does not necessarily need to be modeled. But try to get the big important stuff.

   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




I myself have heard it only on dakka and in my local group. I should probably check it myself before I build any more models . But hey, lazy is as lazy does. Ill go do some digging before I open my maw next.

Edit https://www.th3crossroads.com/single-post/2017/10/22/WYSIWYG-in-competitive-play

Also, until GW starts producing boxs with all the options available then you will find people who really cant be bothered. the blightlord box in the above article is an example. So id say, if you play tournaments its best to be as close to WYSIWYG as possible to avoid conflicts.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/17 11:14:25


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Who is telling you that?

When 8th 1st came out and players with Indexs most likely dont want to rebuild their army just yet, thats understandable, but its not the same as it being dead.

All events are fully wysiwyg and it is easier to be wysiwyg now.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I too have not heard its dead.

It is true that its not 100% applied to all aspects and it NEVER has been.

WYSIWYG is generally applied too the primary weapons of the model; and is coupled to the idea that each individual type of model in your army looks like it should and is distinctive enough. Ergo that you've not converted everything to look the same.

It has generally never been enforced on things like upgrades/biomorths etc... because those are very small details that not only are easily overlooked (seeing extra carapace or many tyranid biomorphs is very hard unless they are shown to you); and because in the practical world of collecting and building miniatures its not cost effective to require people to build them into models perfectly. Otherwise we'd need thousands of models if players wanted to chop and change upgrades taken

It has also never applied to paint schemes (even the famous "red ones go fasta" rule for orks was easy to get around provided you used ork logic to prove how it was really red even though it wasn't painted red). The paint schemes is one that has kind of raised its head again because how GW has added sub-factions into most new codex, but its not nor ever been a requirement to use official schemes for any army.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

I used to be a big proponent of WYSIWYG in the olden days. But with how little GW puts enough parts into a kit, and usually the effort required to convert them or just the money to go hunt for bits (I've seen like one combi-melta go for $10 on ebay!) I care a lot less about it now as long as you are up front about what a unit has, and don't like change your mind about it midway through.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Repentia Mistress






Why would wysiwyg even matter any more? You choose the model to remove, no more weapon destroyed events. Print your loadouts, and just reference it.

A heavy weapon is easy to id as one, but I dont care which one it is. Just say what it is, and have it written down in the list


 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

I play against everyone and everything. But I strictly observe the WYSIWYG rule, in fact I put over 600 magnets in my armies to do that

Conversions and kitbashings are not against the rule, if size and weapons are correct or very similar even scratch built vehicles in plasticard, models completely scuplted in green stuff or other similar materials or third party models can be 100% WYSIWYG.

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 ncshooter426 wrote:
Why would wysiwyg even matter any more? You choose the model to remove, no more weapon destroyed events. Print your loadouts, and just reference it.

A heavy weapon is easy to id as one, but I dont care which one it is. Just say what it is, and have it written down in the list


It's a lot easier to play the game if units are equipped with the weapons they have. Take a Tyranid Warrior. It can be armed with anything from a pure close combat build to a pure shooty build and a huge variety in between. If you just stick random weapons on and then only reference the army list its confusing for the opponent to remember which is which in a given battle.

It also helps ensure a continual appearance; that Venom Cannon is always a VC its not sometimes a barbed strangler or a devourer.

And also its part of the reason we use models in the first place. IF we purely played with the army list chances are we culd give up and just use tokens; visually representing your model as it is in the game is part of the game itself (for the overwhelming majority of players).

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Wysiwyg is not dead, I look at wysiwyg like this.

In casual, Do you have a codex?
If yes, you have 60 days after release to get your models in order. Before i give you flack.
If no, just make sure you communicate what your proxy weapons are.

Are you testing a list? Cool, proxy away.

Is it a tournament game?

Wysiwyg should be enforced

In war there is poetry; in death, release. 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





I use WYSIWYG for the same reason I paint my armies; it's something I believe I should provide to the game and my opponent. My opponent shouldn't have to remember what my models have or don't have. They should have what is modeled on.

Now, I don't care if you're running Primaris and have slightly different bolter rifles or plasma rifles - the differences are so tiny as to be irrelevant and I still know you have bolt rifles or plasma rifles, etc. Same goes for little Tyranid bio-enhancements.

But I do think it's discourteous to your opponent to run empty turrets or proxy constantly.
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




I can't think of any other game ever where it's cool to say your pieces are other pieces because you can't be bothered to get the right pieces.


Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 ncshooter426 wrote:
Why would wysiwyg even matter any more? You choose the model to remove, no more weapon destroyed events. Print your loadouts, and just reference it.

A heavy weapon is easy to id as one, but I dont care which one it is. Just say what it is, and have it written down in the list


This is pretty absurd. How do I tell which unit has the plasma gun and which does not?
How can I tell if that plasma gun is in range instead of magically teleporting around to shoot?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

I am a modeler and painter first and a gamer second for 20 years now, so it's my goal that nothing I own will ever break WYSIWYG. That's the most rewarding part of converting, is the challenge of making a model unique but easily distinguishable to what it is standing in for. I even make sure things like great weapons on my fantasy models are visually large enough to not be easily confused with a single-handed weapon, or that they are painted specifically special so they look non-generic.

For 40k, I make sure to accurately model any wargear from pistol-size up as what it would actually be.

I live for the bitz hunting.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/17 15:25:35




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




If its one model or some abstract upgrade like a relic no wysiwyg.

If its these three tacticals with bolters are devistators with lascannons eh no.

If its alt scuplts because the GW ones are derpy looking (cad fireblade) alsong as they only ever play as that model and no others randomly mixed in else where in the army cool.

Plasma/melta etc now when most armys are plastic magnatising allows you to be wysiwyg with minimal effort. Its just being a good sport
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 ncshooter426 wrote:
Why would wysiwyg even matter any more? You choose the model to remove, no more weapon destroyed events. Print your loadouts, and just reference it.

A heavy weapon is easy to id as one, but I dont care which one it is. Just say what it is, and have it written down in the list


It's to avoid having to double checb all the time that flamer is actually lascannon. Easy to say start of game. Not so easy to remember what squad had what. Especially time limited enviroment like tournament that's crucial

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in ca
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





Canada

If you don't care about WYSIWYG then why not just play with cardboard tokens?

Much cheaper.

Serious, why pay $50 a box for dudes if you can't even be bothered to assemble them properly?

Half the fun is customizing your dudes. If everyone says nah bro powerfist is a las cannon then we be stuck with monopose kits forever.



Gets along better with animals... Go figure. 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





St. Louis, MO

Play necrons, wysiwyg problems solved.

11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
++

Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I have a tyrannic army

I have no idea what half the weapons are meant to look like, there isn't a list of them anywhere, nor what the various biomorphs are meant to be in terms of models.

Its not all that clear cut, but use the right model, if one in the unit has different weapons try to find something suitable to make it obvious

if its not confusing fill your boots
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Whats about single pose models? GW cultist are 50/50 ccw and range, all single pose. No current Model for Weapon Upgrades.

Before the game I state which blob has which weapons, no probs til now.

What are your thoughts about?
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





elodingens wrote:
Whats about single pose models? GW cultist are 50/50 ccw and range, all single pose. No current Model for Weapon Upgrades.

Before the game I state which blob has which weapons, no probs til now.

What are your thoughts about?


It's actually even worse. Those 5 monopose guys are 3 guns 2 CCW.

So even their Cultist assault box can only ever get 12 autoguns and 8 CCW.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





It's been tough for me to do wysiwyg, as I've been doing Thousand Sons for both 30k and 40k and there's not a lot that can work for both, but I've been trying my best. Now I'm at the point where I need to find a way to make the paint schemes match as close as possible.

Speaking of wysiwyg, since I don't like the look of the Cultists minis, would you all consider it ok to use Guardsmen? Or is that not good enough for wysiwyg?
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Arcanis161 wrote:

Speaking of wysiwyg, since I don't like the look of the Cultists minis, would you all consider it ok to use Guardsmen? Or is that not good enough for wysiwyg?

They're both normal humans with peashooters (autoguns and lasguns have the same profile, so it doesn't matter) so that is absolutely fine.

   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

My armies are all wysiwyg. Most of the games I play both of our armies are wysiwyg.

Sigh, Yet another doomed attempt by man to bridge the gap between the material and spiritual worlds 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I do not think WYSIWYG is dead at all. Its just as alive and well as it has ever been. Personally I think its a great thing to have from both a hobby and gameplay perspective, but not required. I think the main thing holding a lot of people back from fully going WYSIWYG is just the time, effort and $ involved with keeping up the new rules and the desire to try new things out for the sake of gameplay. Like just recently I started an AoS army for a warband campaign with my friends. I intend to run my Volkite Berserkers with double hand axes in normal games, but I have decided to arm them with pick and shields for the gameplay purposes of the warband campaign. Should I really be expected to go out and spent $180 for more volkite berserkers just to WYSIWYG a load out I do not think I will use in the long run?

What if I did not like my double hand axes after a few games and decided the pick and shield loadout was better? Do I need to go out and spent a large amount of time and money just for a simple switch of weapons?

I personally would say no that is just silly. If we all had infinite money then yeah sure I could see it, but as is its just not practical for a massive portion of the community. I am fine with so many proxies where the only line I would draw is if that proxy is negatively affecting gameplay such as proxying a rhino for a landraider. That size difference is just going to be too much. Same goes for say using a dreadnought for a primarch. It just wont fly. But if you had say 150 ork boys armed with shootas on the model, but ran them as choppas I think that is totally fine because its uniform. Uniform and reasonably sized proxies are A ok in my book.

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




So I'm pretty new and have only played a few games. I made a squad of Hellblasters as heavy Hellblasters because they just look cool. But, I run them as just regular Hellblasters.

Would people whine about that?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




WYSIWYG is not so much a written rule as much as an unwritten code of playing. It's all based on common sense and subjectivity. As the poster above me asked, if you have a squad of Hellblasters with Heavy Plasma, no one will bat an eye if you use them as standard Plasma because it's easy to know and it's all uniform. It's pretty close so no big deal.

The issues come into play when you start saying "This guy with the notch here has a power sword and plasma pistol. This guy hunched over has a combi plasma and power axe. This guy with the red dot on his back has a sniper rifle." and nothing has that model. One or two models is fine, especially characters. Even entire units are fine if they are uniform and easy to recognize (and identified before play). But don't go doing things like Command Squads where everyone has a different loadout than what they are physically holding. That gets super confusing and bogs down way too much playtime figuring out.
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





I don't care about WYSIWYG beyond at least having SOME sort of starting point, i.e. the guy holding the melta is actually holding a plasma gun. Or all 5 chaos terminators are armed with combi-plasmas. And so on. Otherwise, I don't care.

Some players I've played with care, others don't. No one has ever suggested WYSIWYG be applied to my army, though. It's only ever a personal choice thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/18 03:06:08


 
   
 
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