Switch Theme:

UK GT heat 3 results  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ie
Flower Picking Eldar Youth





Didn't see this posted yet but here are the results from the UK GT's heat 3.

The warhammer tv Chanel has some of the games including the final game on their twitch too.

Was surprised to see no Eldar in the top 10.








This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/18 19:33:37


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





I don't think the most competitive eldar build is really head and shoulders above competitive chaos, orks and nids. LVO just gave the ynaari list too much exposure, other tournaments results don't show as much dominance to eldar.

I'm not saying that competitive eldar isn't amazing, it is, but it's not point and click in the tournament environment as everyone seems to be thinking.

It wasn't too long ago, everyone was suggesting that the Ynaari nerf was too harsh.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/18 21:49:07


 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gaming is purely from games played. 6 points for a win, 2 for a draw. 0 for a loss. So winning big is not nearly as important. by 1 or 100 points. it doesnt matter.

Every player picked one of their 5 opponents as 'fav army' and one as 'fav opponent'. Which vote of which is another 1 point (potential 10). Slay warlord, Line Breaker, First Blood and Killpoints were used to sort out ties (which are ofc common with w/d/l scoring)

I don't think the lists were softer. They had a breakdown of the most popular units in the event and #1 was Dark Reapers at 44 units taken across 11 Eldar (assuming the list in the OP is all players.
The top 2 tables were shown on sunday. Looked like normal competitive armies. They mentioned the #8 list (since he is the cameraman for the GW stream normally) and it was the usual nasty Soup list with Custodian shield-captains on bikes, Guard and I think Celestine (cant remember the exact list)

One of the top Ork lists was shown on day 1, I missed that game.

I would primarily blame the w/d/l system instead of progressive scoring for the difference in rankings
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK heat 3 used Eternal War missions from the book. LVO uses those overly complicated missions they came up with which screws the meta and what armies will perform better.

It’s all about the missions, not necessarily the army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
First place list

Death Guard Super Heavy Auxillary
Mortarion
Alpha Legion Battalion
Daemon Prince + wings + 2 malefic talons
Sorcerer + jump pack + force sword
40 cultists
10 cultists
10 cultists
3 obliterators
3 obliterators
World Eaters Battalion
Dark Apostle
Exalted Champion + power sword
8 Berzerkers
5 Berzerkers
5 Berzerkers
Rhino
Rhino

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/18 22:22:37


 
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




Places two and three were Index Ork Armies?

Wat?

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I think this further points out that ITC missions and basic 40k are different games. That and you euros are playing an entirely different meta than us NA folks.

I also think it points to the fact that chaos is still OP as all outdoors (oblits, zerkers, cultist, morty and DPs). I'm not sure if it's the units or the strats (vets of the long war, double tapping slaanesh marks...)

(edit: spelling)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 00:47:32


 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





The Chaos list is basically build on acting twice.

The Khorne berzerkers fighting twice.
The Alpha Legion Detachment all had mark of Slaanesh so could shoot twice.

In the finals the Berzerkers did a lot of work carving through some 90 plague bearers.
The game before they killed Custodes Shield Captains on bikes.
   
Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

Where are the still incredibly overpowered Imperial Guard players?

Assume all my mathhammer comes from here: https://github.com/daed/mathhammer 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





 daedalus wrote:
Where are the still incredibly overpowered Imperial Guard players?


IG got 12th, better than Aeldari soup and best non soup after Ravenguard (curious to see the list) and Orks (even more curious). Not bad at all.

Still, that is an impressive showing of Chaos, and not one i would like my faction to get just before the March FAQ.

In any case this confirms my idea that ITC rules are heavily skewing the meta and should never be considered in any balance discussion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 06:36:51


 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Spoletta wrote:
 daedalus wrote:
Where are the still incredibly overpowered Imperial Guard players?


IG got 12th, better than Aeldari soup and best non soup after Ravenguard (curious to see the list) and Orks (even more curious). Not bad at all.

Still, that is an impressive showing of Chaos, and not one i would like my faction to get just before the March FAQ.

In any case this confirms my idea that ITC rules are heavily skewing the meta and should never be considered in any balance discussion.

Guard players think they are being misrepresented by soup but it's becoming very clear that the most soup friendly faction is Chaos, lol. Chaos lists seem to be almost exclusively soup, with just the odd Death Guard list popping up every once and a while.
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

Anyone know where to get the lists at? I'm real curious about those orks.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




So, I played that winning list (and player) at an ITC event in January, and my Eldar got smashed by it. I made a few mistakes in the game which didn’t help me, but he had so many threats it’s hard to deal with it. Essentially it revolves around him getting 1st turn, otherwise it doesn’t have the desired impact, but it goes something like this –

Infiltrate 40 man Cultist unit, Votlw stratagem during shooting, in addition to Prescience from JP Sorcerer, then shooting twice due to Slaanesh. This is then followed by a 3” charge by the blob of cultists.

Morty then shoots up the table flanked by the 2 Rhinos and Daemon Prince. Aims for a 1st turn Morty charge via Warptime, and 1 Oblit squad deep-strikes turn 1.

2nd turn is all about the Berserkers re-rolling thanks to the Champion, the 2nd squad of Oblits and Morty if he is still alive.

Key to beating this list is having a couple of Scout screening units and focusing down the 2 Rhinos 1st turn before he has a chance to get the Zerkers up the table.

However, from what I saw, I don’t think there were many lists setup to do this that well.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 djones520 wrote:
Anyone know where to get the lists at? I'm real curious about those orks.


One of the Orks was on the Saturday Warhammer TV stream (you can watch it again if you're a sub) but, beyond that i doubt you'll get the lists unless someone at the event took note of it.

GW didn't have the lists to hand anywhere throughout the entire live stream, so i can only presume they didn't take note of them or list them anywhere.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 10:09:01


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Weird if it's so revolving around getting turn 1. How badly it suffers it it does NOT get as it shouldn't be so comfortable with getting it? 12 drops by the looks of it so not even sure of getting deployed first.

If it's seriously screwed if going 2nd then it's much harder to win tournament as you are bound to get at least 2, maybe 3 times 2nd rather than 1st turn.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





It doesn't auto-lose or anything if it gets 2nd. Its just a lot harder to win.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Obliterators off the board and zerkers in rhinos.
He doesn't have any targets that are highly sensible to alpha strikes. He can afford to not go first

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 12:10:46


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Well rhino's are bit sensible. Without those zerkers are slogging it out. Not sure how big issue that is though

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Spoletta wrote:
Obliterators off the board and zerkers in rhinos.
He doesn't have any targets that are highly sensible to alpha strikes. He can afford to not go first


While he can still win if he doesn’t go first, it’s a lot harder for him.

Against a lot of TAC ITC armies, if he doesn’t have 1st turn, several things can happen to throw the game off for him –
Mortarian could get killed turn 1 – removing one of the main threats
Rhinos could get popped turn 1 – meaning at least 2 turns of foot slogging Berzerkers (not that scary all of a sudden)
40 man Cultist blob gets killed/seriously cripped.

Most armies should be able to cripple the Cultist squad and kill 2 Rhinos 1st turn. At that point he just has to hope the Oblits and Mortarian can cause enough damage.


Works out to 10 drops, if I remember correctly.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I feel that too many armies would waste all of their shooting on morty when popping those rhinos should be priority 1.

Morty could survive an armies worth of shooting with avg to bad dice rolls by the shooter. I guess you could deploy the rhinos out of LOS but without 1st floor blocking LOS I'm not sure how.

Slaanesh double tap and VoTLW strat should be on GWs radar by now. Shooting twice and available army wide +1 to wound are crazy good (see cultist being better at shooting than SM...). I think GW screwed up with the Chaos keywords (heretic astartes) and too liberal inclusion of units that can benefit from different strats (the SM equivalent of VoTLW only applies to one gun for one unit...)

Bodies on the table seems to be what carried the day for the orcs, given the end of game scoring and lack of manufactured ITC shenanigans (units of 30 don't give up all the secondary points you'd ever need) I think ITC needs to look at their secondaries again and see how much they skew the game (both in game strategy and pre game army construction).

Oblits are crazy good (auto include in most chaos lists I've seen). I don't see how this list beats a properly screened IG list but the results don't lie.

What is consistent is the lack of a high placing bobby G list (take that all you people who voted for him as OP). SM suck in ITC or GW or ETC it appears...
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

The reaper secondary should be looked at but it is only 4 points. I won my last 2 tournaments giving up 4 points of reaper every single game.

The ITC secondaries should be tweaked but the core concept of progressive scoring is fantastic.

And end of game scoring is the worst thing ever. I wouldn't treat any of these Ork lists as actually good at anything other than choking objectives in a 2 or 3 turn (max) game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 17:58:34


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Marmatag wrote:
The reaper secondary should be looked at but it is only 4 points. I won my last 2 tournaments giving up 4 points of reaper every single game.

The ITC secondaries should be tweaked but the core concept of progressive scoring is fantastic.

And end of game scoring is the worst thing ever. I wouldn't treat any of these Ork lists as actually good at anything other than choking objectives in a 2 or 3 turn (max) game.
As I said in the other topic, the games i saw (3-4-5) used end of turn scoring, not end of game.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Ordana wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
The reaper secondary should be looked at but it is only 4 points. I won my last 2 tournaments giving up 4 points of reaper every single game.

The ITC secondaries should be tweaked but the core concept of progressive scoring is fantastic.

And end of game scoring is the worst thing ever. I wouldn't treat any of these Ork lists as actually good at anything other than choking objectives in a 2 or 3 turn (max) game.
As I said in the other topic, the games i saw (3-4-5) used end of turn scoring, not end of game.


Can you post the mission format? These are not book missions then. End of turn scoring is progressive scoring.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 18:28:38


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest





All the missions were from Chapter Approved.

1) Resupply Drop - disappearing objectives
2) Roving Patrol - split army into 3rds
3) Dominate & Destroy - kill pts + progressive objectives
4) Ascension - progressive objectives, characters are super obsec and gain more points
5) Scorched Earth, progressive objectives + you can destroy ones in the opposing DZ

So 3/5 were progressive and the two with end of game scoring have other gimmicks. The only one I disliked from that is Roving Patrol which is far too luck based.



“Do not ask me to approach the battle meekly, to creep through the shadows, or to quietly slip on my foes in the dark. I am Rogal Dorn, Imperial Fist, Space Marine, Emperor’s Champion. Let my enemies cower at my advance and tremble at the sight of me.”
-Rogal Dorn
 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 Marmatag wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
The reaper secondary should be looked at but it is only 4 points. I won my last 2 tournaments giving up 4 points of reaper every single game.

The ITC secondaries should be tweaked but the core concept of progressive scoring is fantastic.

And end of game scoring is the worst thing ever. I wouldn't treat any of these Ork lists as actually good at anything other than choking objectives in a 2 or 3 turn (max) game.
As I said in the other topic, the games i saw (3-4-5) used end of turn scoring, not end of game.


Can you post the mission format? These are not book missions then. End of turn scoring is progressive scoring.


CA has end of turn scoring missions.

Also, end of game scoring is good. Helps Elite armies a ton. I think a fair tournament should have a mix of both end of turn and end of game every mission OR alternate between them each round.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 19:04:03


 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Audustum wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
The reaper secondary should be looked at but it is only 4 points. I won my last 2 tournaments giving up 4 points of reaper every single game.

The ITC secondaries should be tweaked but the core concept of progressive scoring is fantastic.

And end of game scoring is the worst thing ever. I wouldn't treat any of these Ork lists as actually good at anything other than choking objectives in a 2 or 3 turn (max) game.
As I said in the other topic, the games i saw (3-4-5) used end of turn scoring, not end of game.


Can you post the mission format? These are not book missions then. End of turn scoring is progressive scoring.


CA has end of turn scoring missions.

Also, end of game scoring is good. Helps Elite armies a ton. I think a fair tournament should have a mix of both end of turn and end of game every mission OR alternate between them each round.


End of game scoring does not help elite armies, wtf?

Every loss compounds their difficulty successfully holding 2+ objectives.
And, how would you push ~120 Boyz off of objectives in only 3 turns?

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 Marmatag wrote:
Audustum wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
The reaper secondary should be looked at but it is only 4 points. I won my last 2 tournaments giving up 4 points of reaper every single game.

The ITC secondaries should be tweaked but the core concept of progressive scoring is fantastic.

And end of game scoring is the worst thing ever. I wouldn't treat any of these Ork lists as actually good at anything other than choking objectives in a 2 or 3 turn (max) game.
As I said in the other topic, the games i saw (3-4-5) used end of turn scoring, not end of game.


Can you post the mission format? These are not book missions then. End of turn scoring is progressive scoring.


CA has end of turn scoring missions.

Also, end of game scoring is good. Helps Elite armies a ton. I think a fair tournament should have a mix of both end of turn and end of game every mission OR alternate between them each round.


End of game scoring does not help elite armies, wtf?

Every loss compounds their difficulty successfully holding 2+ objectives.
And, how would you push ~120 Boyz off of objectives in only 3 turns?


Elite armies frequently do not have long range shooting. This means they must choose every turn between scoring objectives and actually killing enough enemies to survive. In Progressive scoring games this leads to a problem where they can rapidly lose the game before it is actually over because they did not leave enough models on objectives to score them. Since Elite models cost so many points too they leave a disproportionate amount of points behind to claim objectives compared to hordes.

Conversely, end of game scoring allows Elite armies to focus first on neutralizing an opponent and then to getting into position to score. While many games seem to be very slow and ended three turns, you should balance them around having at least five turns since that is what the rules provide for after all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 22:56:35


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah, Primaris Armies were also reasonably competitive in Heat 1 and 2, while basically non existent in the more heavily houseruled meta of ITC & Co.

Lots of little things like ITC allowing both sides to score first blood/strike (making larger, CP farming detachments less a liability), more emphasis on board control, etc.. just really junks the little bit of balance 40K has and puts spam armies even more over the top than the basic game already does.
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




Sunny Side Up wrote:
Yeah, Primaris Armies were also reasonably competitive in Heat 1 and 2, while basically non existent in the more heavily houseruled meta of ITC & Co.

Lots of little things like ITC allowing both sides to score first blood/strike (making larger, CP farming detachments less a liability), more emphasis on board control, etc.. just really junks the little bit of balance 40K has and puts spam armies even more over the top than the basic game already does.


I was skeptical of this line of reasoning at first, but the more I think on it the more I think k you have the right of it. Our predominant tournament house rules are doing as much to shift the meta towards hordes as anything else.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Sunny Side Up wrote:
Yeah, Primaris Armies were also reasonably competitive in Heat 1 and 2, while basically non existent in the more heavily houseruled meta of ITC & Co.

Lots of little things like ITC allowing both sides to score first blood/strike (making larger, CP farming detachments less a liability), more emphasis on board control, etc.. just really junks the little bit of balance 40K has and puts spam armies even more over the top than the basic game already does.

ITC scoring also heavily nerfs certain units. Mortarion was in the winning list in this event, but was nowhere to be seen in the top ITC tables because he and his brother Magnus represent a fat stack of Kingslayer points.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Nevermind, these are the Chapter Approved missions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 21:29:46


"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut






Was the draw random every round? or was it swiss after the first?

40k Combat Calculator

http://mathhammer.thefieldsofblood.com/

I came...
I saw...
I sent out for latte!!!

My General KOW Fantasy & 40k Blog - http://www.thefieldsofblood.com/ 
   
 
Forum Index » Tournament and Local Gaming Discussion
Go to: