Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I really love how DG, World Eaters, and TS have alternate troop choices and I feel like each Legion could use an alternate troop to further individualize the Legions. Things such as Raptors for NL, Havocs for IW, and Terminators for BL would be awesome.

I feel like even if we find it hard to agree what Legions should have what as troops (some legions are easier to agree upon than others), I feel like most would agree that this would be a good change. So what do you guys think? Not needed, not wanted, could be fun, don't really care, very needed? Thoughts?

Yeah that was one of the better parts of the Legion supplement in 7th. I'm all on board for something like this.

Sounds like a pretty solid idea...... sadly GW had to approve it.


Soooo.... yeaaa

I feel a more thematic fix would be a unique unit to each legion and then make a set type of unit obsec for each legion to characterise their strength.

My personal opinions would be the following (Most of this works off the 30k set as this would be easily ported and reflects each legion well):

Night Lords:
Elite Raptor unit that can take special melee weapons across the whole unit (power swords, axes Chain-glaives)
Make raptors an obsec unit.

Alpha Legion:
Elite Marines that can counter deploy when your opponent deepstrikes and immediately make a shooting attack, they would have special ammo types they could use (large volume but low strength/ High AP/ High damage as 3 examples)
Give regular alpha legion chaos marines a special rule that overrides Obsec in their favour

Word Bearers:
An enhanced Possessed unit (Essentially the Gal vorbak)
Make possessed obsec

Iron warriors:
A specialised havoc unit that hunkers down and delivers blistering firepower across the board
Make Havocs Obsec.

Black Legion:
A Chosen unit that can choose 2 special weapons instead of 1 and do not suffer more than 1 model loss when fleeing.
Make chosen Obsec.

To improve choices, include a mercenary rule similar to fabius bile and fallen where max 1 mercenary unit can be taken in a legion detachment with a different name, but they cannot benefit from their legion tactic and do not receive the benefits of any auras or prevent the detachment from benefitting from its legion tactic.

I would go further and introduce Legion specific non-named characters as well, but one thing at a time.

The same would make Craftworld Eldar much more interesting, but those days seem to be gone. I do think that specialized detachments and unit reassignments could have produced some really intriguing armies in 8th.

Night Lords:
Terror Squads
Infiltrate ability
CCW+BP, Bolters base
"Piercing Howl" ability(Talos mentions that they had a way to modulate their vox output on their helmets to do something not unlike the Howling Banshees' scream ability) allowing for them to negate Overwatch if they start a Charge at 8 inches or less(something to that effect; makes it so they can't just completely shut down Overwatch at max charge distances)
Option for Jump Packs and multiple CCWs
"The dead tell a tale..."--ability that makes it so that if a unit is destroyed in CC by Night Lords, nearby units with line of sight to the destroyed unit have to take a Morale test as though they also lost models to it.

Iron Warriors:
<Insert Name Here> Squad
Loadouts allowing for multiple special or heavy weapons, and two "traits" that have to be declared at the start of the game.
One trait would allow for your squads to have an improved save while being shot at by units that are in Cover or Fortifications, as they're specialists in advancing and taking fortified positions.
One trait would give you a bonus to firing heavy weapons and in CC while holding a Fortification.

Alpha Legion:
"Hydra" Squads
Starts the game as a single unit; splits off into multiple independent models. Differing weapon loadouts--including a sniper variant Boltgun.
Gives boosts to nearby <Alpha Legion> Cultist Squads and Chaos Marine/Chosen Squads.
Character targeting rules in effect.

Black Legion:
Desecrator Squads
Can remove objectives from the game as a once per game per squad ability; has to be declared as soon as you begin holding the objective. Takes 2 turns to "finish". The objective no longer counts for you to gain objective points.
Chosen loadouts otherwise.
Some kind of 'taunt' styled ability wouldn't be out of place here; where Imperium units have to roll a LD test while Desecrator Squads are near Basilicas or Statuary or things of that nature. If failed, the Imperium stuff has to move towards them/only shoot at that unit.
It'd need some work but could be interesting.

Got nothing for Word Bearers really. They're basically fine as is IMO.


Now, for some Loyalist ideas...it's not just the Chaos Legions suffering from it IMO. A little flavor would go a long way on the other side as well.
Salamanders:
Firedrakes
All flamers, all the time. Artificer Armor.

White Scars:
Huntsmen
Bike or foot mounted; advance deployment. Bonus to targeting a nominated character(has to be nominated at the start of the game).

Raven Guard:
Mor Deythan
Back from the dead!
Sniper loadouts possible; camo cloaks. Character targeting rules.

Imperial Fists...no ideas
Crimson Fists...no ideas

Tristanleo wrote:
I feel a more thematic fix would be a unique unit to each legion and then make a set type of unit obsec for each legion to characterise their strength.

My personal opinions would be the following (Most of this works off the 30k set as this would be easily ported and reflects each legion well):

I like this idea, just to add to it, perhaps giving each legion specific unit a stratagem might be nice?

Night Lords:
Elite Raptor unit that can take special melee weapons across the whole unit (power swords, axes Chain-glaives)

Terrifying presence - 1CP "during the morale phase, all enemy units within 6" of an <Elite Raptor> unit must take a leadership test on a 2d6, even if the unit has not lost any models this turn"

Alpha Legion:
Elite Marines that can counter deploy when your opponent deepstrikes and immediately make a shooting attack, they would have special ammo types they could use (large volume but low strength/ High AP/ High damage as 3 examples)

Into the shadows - 1CP "at the end of your turn, choose 1 friendly <Elite Marine> unit; that unit is removed from their position and immediately redeployed on the battlefield anywhere that is more than 9" from an enemy model"

Word Bearers:
An enhanced Possessed unit (Essentially the Gal vorbak)

Harmonious prayer - 3CP "until your next turn, add d3 to the movement, strength, toughness, attacks and leadership as well as increase weapon skill by 1 (i.e. WS4+ becomes WS3+) of all friendly units on the board with the Possessed keyword"

Iron warriors:
A specialised havoc unit that hunkers down and delivers blistering firepower across the board

Concentrated Firepower - 2CP "Choose 1 enemy unit on the battlefield, until the end of your turn, all friendly <Elite Havocs> units gain +1 to hit and +1 to wound against that target.

Black Legion:
A Chosen unit that can choose 2 special weapons instead of 1 and do not suffer more than 1 model loss when fleeing.

Undivided Blessings - 2CP for 1 unit or 3CP for 2 "Before the battle, choose 1 <Elite Chosen> unit, that unit gains 4 new rules; when being fired at with 1D weapons, their armour save increases by 1; this unit ignores wounds on a roll of a 5 or 6; this unit may fight twice in the fight phase and; this unit always fights first in the fight phase"

While Terrifying Presence greatly amuses me I think mrhappyface may be overdoing the power of these stratagems.

As for the original concept I am totally into it. There shound't be so strong of a reason for DG or TS to be superior to general CSM. as it is disgustingly resilient and infernal weapons are quite nice.

Raptors already get some NL synergy so maybe warp talons?

Shas'O'Ceris wrote:
While Terrifying Presence greatly amuses me I think mrhappyface may be overdoing the power of these stratagems.

Are any of them really that powerful?

 mrhappyface wrote:

Shas'O'Ceris wrote:
While Terrifying Presence greatly amuses me I think mrhappyface may be overdoing the power of these stratagems.

Are any of them really that powerful?

Especially when Marine armies really get no CP to use?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Shas'O'Ceris wrote:
While Terrifying Presence greatly amuses me I think mrhappyface may be overdoing the power of these stratagems.

Are any of them really that powerful?

Especially when Marine armies really get no CP to use?

What?

 mrhappyface wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Shas'O'Ceris wrote:
While Terrifying Presence greatly amuses me I think mrhappyface may be overdoing the power of these stratagems.

Are any of them really that powerful?

Especially when Marine armies really get no CP to use?

What?

Think about the disparaging difference between MEQ armies and Guard/Tyranid armies. It's pretty silly.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Shas'O'Ceris wrote:
While Terrifying Presence greatly amuses me I think mrhappyface may be overdoing the power of these stratagems.

Are any of them really that powerful?

Especially when Marine armies really get no CP to use?

What?

Think about the disparaging difference between MEQ armies and Guard/Tyranid armies. It's pretty silly.

And that makes these stratagems powerful, why?

 mrhappyface wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Shas'O'Ceris wrote:
While Terrifying Presence greatly amuses me I think mrhappyface may be overdoing the power of these stratagems.

Are any of them really that powerful?

Especially when Marine armies really get no CP to use?

What?

Think about the disparaging difference between MEQ armies and Guard/Tyranid armies. It's pretty silly.

And that makes these stratagems powerful, why?

I'm saying that complaining that these Strategems being too powerful is silly when they aren't, and on top of that won't be used that often.

My mistake, I didn't look at who was replying and assumed it was Shas: that's why I was confused about your first reply.

The stratagems look good, The alpha legion and Iron warriors ones are good, fluffy and unique.
Alpha legion I'd also be tempted to give -1 to hit until the start of your next turn against shooting.
Iron warriors potentially you can choose 2 units if you pay 3CP

Night lords I'm umm'ing and ahh'ing over as it has the potential to be killer, but requires set up and can be mitigated if your opponent expects it, I would have suggested either the 2d6 morale for units in combat with it or enemy units within 2 inches reduce their leadership by 2 on top of other penalties.


Word bearers, again, Umm'ing and Ahh'ing as this can really be a killer... but requires you to play a very distinct army to maximise it's effectiveness.

My only problem one is black legion as this is way too cheap. permanent second fight phase on top of the other bonuses is worth 3cp for one round and you are giving them one for every turn. I'd make it so that you choose 1 of the rules rule each turn to last until your next turn, but cannot select the same rule more than twice or in consecutive phases.

Tristanleo wrote:
The stratagems look good, The alpha legion and Iron warriors ones are good, fluffy and unique.
Alpha legion I'd also be tempted to give -1 to hit until the start of your next turn against shooting.
Iron warriors potentially you can choose 2 units if you pay 3CP

That seems fair.

Night lords I'm umm'ing and ahh'ing over as it has the potential to be killer, but requires set up and can be mitigated if your opponent expects it, I would have suggested either the 2d6 morale for units in combat with it or enemy units within 2 inches reduce their leadership by 2 on top of other penalties.

Well, against most units, this won't really affect them due to high leadership or leadership mitigation, the units that will take the worst hit are bubblewrap/chaff units but they need a counter.

Word bearers, again, Umm'ing and Ahh'ing as this can really be a killer... but requires you to play a very distinct army to maximise it's effectiveness.

To be fair, possessed are extremely bad this edition (like last edition, and the editions before) and Word Bearers themselves are terrible, this stratagem still doesn't help with the fact that they are overpriced and will die to a stiff breeze.

My only problem one is black legion as this is way too cheap. permanent second fight phase on top of the other bonuses is worth 3cp for one round and you are giving them one for every turn. I'd make it so that you choose 1 of the rules rule each turn to last until your next turn, but cannot select the same rule more than twice or in consecutive phases.

Aye, perhaps all 4 bonuses at once is a bit too much, 1 per turn might be better.

Tristanleo wrote:
I feel a more thematic fix would be a unique unit to each legion and then make a set type of unit obsec for each legion to characterise their strength.

My personal opinions would be the following (Most of this works off the 30k set as this would be easily ported and reflects each legion well):

Night Lords:
Elite Raptor unit that can take special melee weapons across the whole unit (power swords, axes Chain-glaives)
Make raptors an obsec unit.

Alpha Legion:
Elite Marines that can counter deploy when your opponent deepstrikes and immediately make a shooting attack, they would have special ammo types they could use (large volume but low strength/ High AP/ High damage as 3 examples)
Give regular alpha legion chaos marines a special rule that overrides Obsec in their favour

Word Bearers:
An enhanced Possessed unit (Essentially the Gal vorbak)
Make possessed obsec

Iron warriors:
A specialised havoc unit that hunkers down and delivers blistering firepower across the board
Make Havocs Obsec.

Black Legion:
A Chosen unit that can choose 2 special weapons instead of 1 and do not suffer more than 1 model loss when fleeing.
Make chosen Obsec.

To improve choices, include a mercenary rule similar to fabius bile and fallen where max 1 mercenary unit can be taken in a legion detachment with a different name, but they cannot benefit from their legion tactic and do not receive the benefits of any auras or prevent the detachment from benefitting from its legion tactic.

I would go further and introduce Legion specific non-named characters as well, but one thing at a time.

I like the twist on Obsec but I'd rather see something that was "special" to each legion rather then an improved version of a current unit. Iron warriors are the straight forward one, give them artillery. Either a Legion Basilisk (so BS 3+) or possibly something new they could share with the Imperial fists.

In a similar vain, BL could gain a version of Drop pods (as per HH)

I'm fine with the Legions not having regular Drop Pods, but they need to be cheaper overall.