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Made in fr
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




I've read multiple times that it's still a bad idea to mix weapons in a unit eg deva with 2 heavy boltguns and 2 lascannons. However, with the abilty to split fire at will I don't understand why. For example if you have 2 heavy targets, if your 4 lascannons are in the same unit, there's a possibility to either overkill a unit if you decide to fire all 4 at the same target or to fail killing both if you split your fire. Whereas if you had 2 and 2, you could fire 2 then act according to the result, and do the same with your heavy boltguns. Am I getting something wrong here?
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






Its not inherently a bad idea at all.

The only time I would say not to mix weapons is in a squad that you wanted to focus a certain thing.

If you were deep striking something like plasma Interceptors for example you wouldn't want to take 1 or 2 boltstorm guys on the squad as well.

For dev squads you generally wouldn't take Multi melta's and lazcannons as they have different ranges, but taking 1 missle launcher with 2 lazcannons is fine, as they have the same range.

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Made in nz
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




Ankh Morpork

CypherF wrote:
I've read multiple times that it's still a bad idea to mix weapons in a unit eg deva with 2 heavy boltguns and 2 lascannons. However, with the abilty to split fire at will I don't understand why. For example if you have 2 heavy targets, if your 4 lascannons are in the same unit, there's a possibility to either overkill a unit if you decide to fire all 4 at the same target or to fail killing both if you split your fire. Whereas if you had 2 and 2, you could fire 2 then act according to the result, and do the same with your heavy boltguns. Am I getting something wrong here?


You are missing that you need to select the targets of your unit's shooting before selecting a weapon and resolving its attacks, so you could not "fire 2 then act act according to the result".
   
Made in fr
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




No, that's exactly what I'm saying. You cannot do it if your 4 lascannons are in the same unit, that's why I think it's better to have 2 units with 2 LC than 1 with 4.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Generally the arguments for uniformity are because of things acting on the unit (buffs, etc) and not just to satisfy a need for uniformity.

Example if you wanted to buff one or both squads with a single target or very small aura effect.

IG has the most glaring form of this in thier orders system, but it does affect other factions to a lesser degree
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






CypherF wrote:
I've read multiple times that it's still a bad idea to mix weapons in a unit eg deva with 2 heavy boltguns and 2 lascannons. However, with the abilty to split fire at will I don't understand why. For example if you have 2 heavy targets, if your 4 lascannons are in the same unit, there's a possibility to either overkill a unit if you decide to fire all 4 at the same target or to fail killing both if you split your fire. Whereas if you had 2 and 2, you could fire 2 then act according to the result, and do the same with your heavy boltguns. Am I getting something wrong here?


Primarily this is only an issue for units with mixed/short ranges (I.e. if you had one flamer and one melta gun in a squad, you'd be much less likely to be within 6" of a vehicle AND 8" of an infantry unit) or melee weapons (you're unlikely to be in melee vs Marines for your power swords AND a tank for your power fist, if you had both in one squad). The other instance is a single heavy weapon in a squad of models who really need to be moving around to get to close range, like a single lascannon in a marine squad featuring bolters and melta gun.

With long range units, like you describe, it's very rarely an issue and indeed probably a good thing to do. Lets say you had one squad of devastators with bolters, one with lascannons. Your opponent is playing all tank. Which is he going to focus down first? Now lets say you have two squads with 2 las 2 bolters each. Your opponent now has no obvious single target to attack, and the bolters can die so the lascannons can live to target the tanks, or vice versa if your opponent is playing some kind of pure horde.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/20 14:38:20


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Made in us
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






the_scotsman wrote:
CypherF wrote:
I've read multiple times that it's still a bad idea to mix weapons in a unit eg deva with 2 heavy boltguns and 2 lascannons. However, with the abilty to split fire at will I don't understand why. For example if you have 2 heavy targets, if your 4 lascannons are in the same unit, there's a possibility to either overkill a unit if you decide to fire all 4 at the same target or to fail killing both if you split your fire. Whereas if you had 2 and 2, you could fire 2 then act according to the result, and do the same with your heavy boltguns. Am I getting something wrong here?


Primarily this is only an issue for units with mixed/short ranges (I.e. if you had one flamer and one melta gun in a squad, you'd be much less likely to be within 6" of a vehicle AND 8" of an infantry unit) or melee weapons (you're unlikely to be in melee vs Marines for your power swords AND a tank for your power fist, if you had both in one squad). The other instance is a single heavy weapon in a squad of models who really need to be moving around to get to close range, like a single lascannon in a marine squad featuring bolters and melta gun.

With long range units, like you describe, it's very rarely an issue and indeed probably a good thing to do. Lets say you had one squad of devastators with bolters, one with lascannons. Your opponent is playing all tank. Which is he going to focus down first? Now lets say you have two squads with 2 las 2 bolters each. Your opponent now has no obvious single target to attack, and the bolters can die so the lascannons can live to target the tanks, or vice versa if your opponent is playing some kind of pure horde.


This is the most accurate explanation.

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Made in fr
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




Thank you all for your explanations
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Generally on units you buy upgrades for, though, only some upgrades are ever worth it.

So while you could do two squads of Devastators with two Lascannons and two Heavy Bolters...why? Tarantula Sentry Turrets do the Heavy Bolter saturation better, so just focus on grabbing Lascannons (or Grav Cannons, I won't judge).

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 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in fr
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




'cause I was actually thinking about Havocs when I said devastator
   
 
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