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Hi All,

After testing/theory crafting, here's the next version of my 2k GT list after a poor showing by the SM Component in recent test games.


Battalion Detachment - Imperium

HQ - SM Librarian - Force Staff, Null Zone, Might of Heros, Jump Pack
HQ - AM - Company Commander - Plasma Pistol, Chainsword [Tallarn]

Troops - 5 Scouts with Shotguns
Troops - 5 Scouts with Shotguns
Troops - 5 Scouts with Shotguns

Elites - 10 Veterans [Tallarn] - 3 Plasmaguns, Plasma Pistol
Elites - Special Weapons team [Tallarn] 3 Meltaguns
Elites - Callidus Assassin

Brigade - Catachan

HQ - Sly Marbo
HQ - Straken
HQ - Company Commander - Boltgun
HQ - Tempestor Prime - Laurels of Command, Command Rod

Elites - Platoon Commander [Dagger of outflanking] - Plasma Pistol, Power Fist
Elites - Command Squad - Sniper Rifle, Standard, Lascannon
Elites - Priest - Laspistol Chainsword

Troops -
Guard Squad - Sniper Rifle
Guard Squad - Sniper Rifle
Guard Squad - Boltgun and Lascannon
Guard Squad - Boltgun and Lascannon
Scion Squad - 10 Man with 4 Plasma and Plasma Pistol
Scion Squad - 5 Man with 2 Plasma and Plasma Pistol

Fast Attack
5 Rough Riders with Plasma Pistol
5 Rough Riders
5 Rough Riders

Heavy Support
Mortar Team * 3
Mortar Team * 3
Mortar Team * 3

Patrol Detachment - Sisters

HQ -Cannoness - Warlord - Blade of Admonition, Bolt Pistol, Tenacious Surviour
HQ - Celestine + 1 Twin
Troops - 5 Sisters with Heavy Bolter, and sister superior with Storm bolter
Fast Attack - 5 Seraphim with Power Sword and Twin Inferno Pistols

15 CP , Losing 3 to Inflitrate the Tallarn Elements, 2 for the Guard Relics, leaves me starting play with 10.

The idea is the form a sub optimal objective camping body heavy gunline across my side of the board, and overload one flank of the enemy with Celestine the Seraphim and the Outflankers. Marbo + the Callidus both can get under 9 inches the turn they appear and are ideally suited to tying up high firepower objects [Pask, Dev Squads, etc] as should one or two rough riders. The Platoon Commander outflanks Straken behind this screen of expendable bodies with the Tallarn Guys, and the Stormtroopers drop in on targets of oppertunity.52 guys on one flank + the girls should cause high volume chaos, and all the stormtroopers and guardsmen should be able to screen the characters while they get to work.


Thoughts?

So you’re sort of spamming a load of T3 models basically?

Your list doesn’t contain that many models for a majority guard infantry army. There’s also no real punch in the list, nothing in that list really threatens anything. It would take practically your entire army to kill 1 Flyrant.

I’m going to include the same comment I did in your last list, people know how to bubble wrap their key units, you won’t go your reserves close enough to them to interupt them.

What lists have you been testing against?

If I'm reading you list correctly you'll ve doing none of the above as your lacking pure detachments to unlock the strats and factions bonuses your hoping to exploit

I'm guessing this list is intended for ITC Format?

Wait, how do you have space marines and an assassin and guard in a battalion detatchment?

The Brigade is a pure Astra Mil Brigade, not sure where there's confusion there. [Unless you think it's the priest? But that's definitely in the AM Codex.]
And the Patrol Detachment is a pure sister's detachment.
The Batalion detachment is mixed, yes, and doesn't unlock anything by itself but some CP - I'm not sure how there's confusion on how this is possible though, it's an Imperium Battalion and all the units in it share the Imperium Keyword. That's just how 8th works!

The rules format for the event is located here ->
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/a7e101_6f982ecc01994436a41d2c5557650db2.pdf

It's a hybrid of Eternal War and Malestrom missions with some minor adjustments [Like D3 VP is 2, and no faction specific objectives.]

I am concerned about the long range firepower, considering what to drop to squeeze in more long range guns. - Not to concerned about bubble wrapping, as the idea is to engage the bubble wrap and then move onto what's behind it, rather than alpha striking past it, though in theory the on table Guard detachment should be survivable enough and with enough rubbish long range firepower to spend a turn clearing out the bubble wrap.

Testing has primarily been against Tyranids and various forms of power armour. Gotta take the opponents I can find, I'm afraid.

The way its written out just makes it unclear that, that's whats going on.
You also say stormtroopers which I think is actually scions and can you use the tallarn strat to outflank a non tallarn unit?

The Units in the Batallion are specifically keyworded to be Tallarn. The brigade is Catachan, the Company Commander, Veterans, and Special Weapon team in the Batallion are Tallarn and thus valid targets for the stratagem.

And the day Stormtroopers are Tempestus Scions is the day I quit the Imperial Guard, son.

Just your how your going to play lists stormtroopers but I can't see stormtroopers in the army?

It sounds like its working for you its different enough that it might be counter meta, but hard to tell

Ice_can wrote:
Just your how your going to play lists stormtroopers but I can't see stormtroopers in the army?

It sounds like its working for you its different enough that it might be counter meta, but hard to tell

Scion Squads are slot 5, and 6 in the Brigade, one 10 man squad with 4 plas and plas pistol, and one 5 man squad with 2 plas and plas pistol, and of course there's a Tempestus Prime with Rod and Laurels. Being Scions [Ahem, Stormtroopers] they don't prevent the rest of the Brigade benefiting from the Catachan Tactics, though sadly don't benefit from the MT Tactics themselves.

I am concerned about firepower. It has a lot of things to tie things up, a lot of things to bog things down, and around 150 wounds to chew through, but very little in the way of serious firepower. 9 Plasma Guns, 6 plasma pistols, 3 lascannons, 3 meltaguns, and a couple of inferno pistols. It does have some mortal wound sources [Catachan Stratagem, Marbo, Callidus, Smite.] but adding any more long range firepower is either going to cripple my model count or CP count. [Or both.] And someone's already pointed out it's low on the model count.
[Though the model count reduction is intentional, I'm concerned about the time frame for each game.] I could for example, scrap the Librarian for instant 30 guardsmen, but what would I do with another thirty guardsmen but waste more time every turn? I could scrap him for 3 or 4 inaccurate lascannons, though, hm...

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
The Brigade is a pure Astra Mil Brigade, not sure where there's confusion there. [Unless you think it's the priest? But that's definitely in the AM Codex.]
And the Patrol Detachment is a pure sister's detachment.
The Batalion detachment is mixed, yes, and doesn't unlock anything by itself but some CP - I'm not sure how there's confusion on how this is possible though, it's an Imperium Battalion and all the units in it share the Imperium Keyword. That's just how 8th works!

The rules format for the event is located here ->
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/a7e101_6f982ecc01994436a41d2c5557650db2.pdf

It's a hybrid of Eternal War and Malestrom missions with some minor adjustments [Like D3 VP is 2, and no faction specific objectives.]

I am concerned about the long range firepower, considering what to drop to squeeze in more long range guns. - Not to concerned about bubble wrapping, as the idea is to engage the bubble wrap and then move onto what's behind it, rather than alpha striking past it, though in theory the on table Guard detachment should be survivable enough and with enough rubbish long range firepower to spend a turn clearing out the bubble wrap.

Testing has primarily been against Tyranids and various forms of power armour. Gotta take the opponents I can find, I'm afraid.

What do you mean unlock anything. Sorry, im super new to 8th and still dont understand how you have multiple different codexes worth of units in the same detachment.

I'll see if I can explain.

You can in theory, if for example I was playing narrative, take any unit from _Any_ codex in a detachment. Detachments are not specific to any given Codex, they're simply a collection of Force Org slots.

For example, in a narrative game, a Supreme Command Detachment consisting of a SM Captain, an Eldar Avatar, and a Chaos Lord, would be a legal [If Bizzare] detachment.

In Matched play, your army must be 'Battle Forged.' What this means is that every unit in every one of your detachments must share a single faction keyword. This could be for example, Eldar [Or whatever they're calling it these days], or it could be Chaos. Dark Eldar, Craftworld Eldar, and Harliquins all share the Eldar Faction, so you can mix and match those as you please within detachments and your army.

My army consists of units that all share the 'Imperium' faction, and thus is Battleforged and match play legal.

There are advantages to keeping each detachment 'Pure' and from one specific Codex however, keeping a detachment from just one Codex unlocks the stratagems from that Codex, [Which can then be used across eligable units from the entire army.] and keeping a detachment pure to one specific subfaction often unlocks army traits [Those however apply specifically to units in that detachment.] So for example my brigade just consists of units from the AM Codex, and thus unlocks AM Stratagems for us, and all units in it are from Catachan, and so get +1 Strength and +1 Ld from being within 6inches from officers.

However the units in my Batallion are a mismatch of Imperium units, and so don't unlock any additional stratagems or themselves benefit from any traits. However as three of them are AM Tallarn units, they are eligable as a target for the Tallarn Stratagem as unlocked by the AM Brigade.

The sisters patrol is a pure sisters detachment, and so unlocks all [Two] sisters stratagems.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
I'll see if I can explain.

You can in theory, if for example I was playing narrative, take any unit from _Any_ codex in a detachment. Detachments are not specific to any given Codex, they're simply a collection of Force Org slots.

For example, in a narrative game, a Supreme Command Detachment consisting of a SM Captain, an Eldar Avatar, and a Chaos Lord, would be a legal [If Bizzare] detachment.

In Matched play, your army must be 'Battle Forged.' What this means is that every unit in every one of your detachments must share a single faction keyword. This could be for example, Eldar [Or whatever they're calling it these days], or it could be Chaos. Dark Eldar, Craftworld Eldar, and Harliquins all share the Eldar Faction, so you can mix and match those as you please within detachments and your army.

My army consists of units that all share the 'Imperium' faction, and thus is Battleforged and match play legal.

There are advantages to keeping each detachment 'Pure' and from one specific Codex however, keeping a detachment from just one Codex unlocks the stratagems from that Codex, [Which can then be used across eligable units from the entire army.] and keeping a detachment pure to one specific subfaction often unlocks army traits [Those however apply specifically to units in that detachment.] So for example my brigade just consists of units from the AM Codex, and thus unlocks AM Stratagems for us, and all units in it are from Catachan, and so get +1 Strength and +1 Ld from being within 6inches from officers.

However the units in my Batallion are a mismatch of Imperium units, and so don't unlock any additional stratagems or themselves benefit from any traits. However as three of them are AM Tallarn units, they are eligable as a target for the Tallarn Stratagem as unlocked by the AM Brigade.

The sisters patrol is a pure sisters detachment, and so unlocks all [Two] sisters stratagems.

Ohh, ok. So if i wanted a detatchment of, like, a SM librarian, some hellblasters, a unit of scouts, an imperial assassin, and a vexilus praetor, i could do that, but my SM stratagems wouldnt be useable?

That's perfectly correct, yes. Because the Assassin shares the 'Imperium' keyword he's a perfectly valid choice, but because he isn't a Space Marine, the detachment doesn't count as a space marine detachment and thus doesn't unlock SM Stratagems as per the Codex.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
That's perfectly correct, yes. Because the Assassin shares the 'Imperium' keyword he's a perfectly valid choice, but because he isn't a Space Marine, the detachment doesn't count as a space marine detachment and thus doesn't unlock SM Stratagems as per the Codex.

So so long as i dont care about stratagems, i can take all the cool stuff i wanna play in one imperium detatchment, and field another one with SM where i actually want my stratagems to matter.

thats really cool!

Did you use this list at the GT just gone? or is it for a future GT? or even the LGT?

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
T
The rules format for the event is located here ->
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/a7e101_6f982ecc01994436a41d2c5557650db2.pdf

As I noted above, it's this event, which is the GT, in London, on may 19th. By "latest" It's my latest varient of the list. [There have been several older ones posted in the last few months, which featured more lascannons and Space Marines, but farely poorly as the Space Marine detachment, even as Ravenguard, just get shot off the table T1.]