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Made in au
Flashy Flashgitz






Ork Primer and Resources: 8th Edition Index
last updated: 21 Feb 2018
The purpose of this thread is to provide both a basic guide of what works for new 40k Ork players in 8th, as well as a resource list to assist competitive players grind to the top tables in tournaments. Please post information and I’ll update the front page as we go. We’re stuck with our index for what is rumoured to be another few months, so hopefully we can focus on how to play, not just what to build, and that will require heaps of community feedback and discussion (I'm no expert). If you’ve had success with a list, especially in a tournament setting, tell us how it works and why it wins.

Please keep discussions relating to fluff, rules, or comparing units in a vacuum to other parts of the forums. There's plenty of places to argue, lets try to be constructive here boys!

General Resources:
http://bloodofkittens.com/: An updated source of successful lists for all factions.
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/tag/chapter-tactics/: A competitively focused podcast.

Mathammers:
rvd1ofakind made a massive multi-faction mathhammer spreadsheet which I truncated for the purposes of this thread, find the attachment below. The full version includes chaos daemons and admec, find it in his signature. Thanks rvd!
/u/HeadChime on Reddit made his own mathhammer for Orks. You can find some of his chapter approved comments here and find the file attached below, or download it here.
There's heaps of work in these mathhammers, so send them a thank you if you find them useful.

Articles:
How do you build an effective army list: General advice when constructing a tournament list
Screening 101: General advice to screen your artillery, also useful to read from the assaulter perspective
Why Gretchin are the best Ork unit in 8th: Definitely has some credence to this stance, as gretchin showed up in force in the LVO.
Mob Up: Not just for Kill Point Denial: Talks about a cute movement trick you can perform with our only useful stratagem.

Battle Reports and Army discussions:
Frontline Gaming videos on Bay Area Open 2017: The first turn of John McCools BAO 2017 Stormboy/Squiggoth list is here.
Bells of Lost Souls interview with Val Heffelfinger: A Full Warzone Atlanta 2017 break down and list discussion with Val Heffelfinger’s Big Trakk/Squiggoth list
Frontline Gaming Chapter Tactics podcast on the LVO: Val Heffelfinger guests in this podcast discussing the LVO 2018. He talks about his new list and tournament experience at the beginning.
Warhammer TV on twitch broadcasted the GT heat 3 and showed Orks first round. You'll need to be subscribed to watch.

Tier list of units:
Taken from our other thread discussion, thanks to pismakron, koooaei, and Jidmah. Some changes have been made from that list, they are highlighted in red and have not been heavily discussed.
Spoiler:
Unanimously considered excellent choices, you can not bring too many of these things:
Boyz One of the best units in the game. The math favours sluggas, but shootas works surprisingly well and gives you some flexibility. If you are struggling with orks, bring more boyz.
Ghazkgull An absolute killing machine and surprisingly durable. Works well in mechanized lists as well as with foot infantry.
Weirdboy An auto-include. The weirdboy can reliable deny any psyker, is a smite machine, and has access to two good powers in Warpath and Da Jump.
Stormboyz Good for bracketing vehicles so they cannot fall back. Also, you don't lose out on the Greentide bonus by taking lots of min-sized squads. Basically faster moving boyz for a decent price.
Kommandos They can appear anywhere any time you like. While their bonus to their cover save is rarely useful, they are 15 boyz that can appear right next to your opponent, and boyz are good. They can get two burnaz for free.
Kustom Mega-Kannon Since price drop in CA, they are our best shooting option. You can have one crew fire multiple guns and have they other crews capture objectives and/or bubble-wrap.
Gargantuan Squiggoth There's no denying that when this guy hits the table orks hit the top tables, throw some burnas or tankbustas on his back and they'll rain hell for at least a turn or two. Likely our best transport option.

Great support staff, but not the core of your army:
Warboss The buffs provided by a warboss are crucial for boy blobs, and his damage output is quite decent. The 'eadwomper's killchoppa (relic BC) is the best option for a Warboss, as is a Warbike, but leave the Mega Armor at home.
Zhadsnark Competes with your warboss on a bike slot, but has the speed to keep up with stormboyz and pressure a flank really well.
Big Mek An important part of most ork lists, but not an auto-include. Always give him a KFF. A Warbike is also a good option as the KFF is very dependent on positioning. Don't waste points on klaws, saws, blastas or the shokk attack gun.
Painboy The 6+ save is pretty weak, but his abillity to heal characters is very useful. Healing weirdboyz and Ghaz will earn his points back, and with four attacks he has better damage output than a Big Mek.
Mad Dok Grotsnik A better painboy but more expensive. He is pretty tough with dual FNP saves and as killy as a warboss.
Tankbustas Very decent damage output, but they are way too squishy to use on foot. Works well in mechanized lists. Only unit that can make good use of the DakkaDakkaDakka stratagem.
Banner Nob Provides a nice buff for all Ork lists, but he is pretty expensive. He is good with both walkers and footsloggers.
Gretchin The cheapest way to fill the board and sit on objectives, they will prevent deep strikes and can shoot at a pretty good hit rate (sometimes even 3+!). They seem to be on the rise in ITC lists as of Feb'18.
Dakkajet It can do plenty of damage, and is the only thing in our army that has -1 to hit. It's also ok at killing anything, but not actually good against any specific targets. Can be useful for assassinating characters, as it can jump next to them and unload its guns on them.
Trukk Now half a battlewagon for half the price. Our best transport option that's not a Gargantuan Squiggoth.
Big Trakk The flamers on these things are outrageous

Some use cases, but generally less efficient than the above options:
Nobz Come stock with 4+ armor now and can take ammo runts that increase their durability - especially useful against multi-wound weapons. They are an important part of most mechanized lists, but sadly our vehicles are overpriced. All shooting options but shootas are too expensive.
Kannon Not as good as the KMK since it has only one shot and big guns are less tough than mek guns. Still a decent anti-tank weapon, especially when spammed.
Snikrot Awesome objective camper due to his cover buff. If you have 2+ units of kommandoz, he can support them, but is by no means required to do so.
Gorkanaut Very tough and a beast in close-combat. The shooting is kind of meh, but better than the morkanaut.
Morkanaut Like the Gorkanaut but with less damage output and a gun that fries itself. Received a price drop in CA and might be considered worth bringing sometimes.
Zaggstruk Extremely good if you take multiple full-sized squads of stormboyz. Some people have reported success running him on his own.
Runtherd Gaining some usefulness purely due to the potential gretchin have been showing, probably an auto-include if you're bringing 40+ gretchin.
Battlewagon Ok with hard-top and a deff-rolla. They are expensive and most shooting options are not worth it for their points. Best transport for melee units with little shooting, but too expensive and too easy to kill by dedicated anti-tank.

Bring these in your fluffly lists, but otherwise shelf them:
Kaptin Badrukk he is a strong shooting unit with mediocre range, however his aura doesn't work well with flash gits at all for multiple reasons. Therefore most useful without flash gits.
Burna Bommer Bombs work best against elite infantry, has one more big shoota than a blitza bommer. Use Explosive Demise to discourage your opponent from shooting it down or do lots of damage. Use CP to re-roll explosion result. Do not take skorcha missiles.
Skorchas very cheap and good weapons, but their outflanking is almost useless because skorachs are always out of range. Deploy them regularly, so they can skorch something after advancing first turn.
Killa Kan Reasonably durable and shooty, but needs lots of baby sitting: A Banner Nob to make them usefull in close combat and a Bik Mek with a KFF to make them survive. They also need a warboss or command-points to help with morale. Oh, and they don't benefit from 'Ere We Go.
Lootas Good damage output, but very squishy and needs to remain stationary. Use command points to re-roll their shots.
Warbikers really fast, have good shooting, are quite durable vs small arms fire but fold like wet paper vs damage 2 or more weapons - most notably overcharged plasma. Since they get to strike first when charging their melee is now decent.

Don't bring these if you're trying to win:
Warbuggies/trakks they are basically a couple bikers welded together resulting in a slight increase in durability. Rokkits make them too expensive, big shootas aren't actually great weapons. Can outflank.
Deffkopta The bomb is good, and the ability to assault things that are behind a screen can be game-winning and they appear almost anywhere on the board. On the downside they are expensive and squishy and do too little.
Bubble chukka Fun option that has the potential to be totally devastating or totally harmless. Most important value is number of shots, and then strength. Strength doesn't matter if you fail to hit, AP and damage don't matter if you fail to wound.
Zzap gun More unreliable version of the kannon, but could potentially do three mortal wounds and kill three marines or something. Not worth the extra 3 points over a kannon though, and KMK does it better.
Blitza-Bommer Bombs are good at causing mortal wounds, perfect for squads of infantry but not that good against vehicles. Since CA more expensive than burna bommer without actually being better at anything relevant.
MANz Kill too little due to hit modifier, too slow. They are hard to kill roadblocks, but not worth their points. Dual killsaws are superior to shooting options.
Deff dread Very good damage output, but the dread is very squishy and badly needs KFF protection. Too slow to reliably charge on turn two. They are useless for shooting.
Burnas Too expensive and to squishy. Both shooting and melee is inferior to regular boyz.
Wazbom Blastajet Instead of paying for a KFF that's never where you need it and a plane with guns that don't hit the broad side of a barn, bring another bommer.
Nob Bikers twice the price of a nob with ammo runt with little to show for it. Combined with all shooting options bein expensive as sin, not worth fielding.
Lobba Don't pay 26 points for a big shoota.
Smasha gun There is no reason to not get a KMK instead of this. Still better against fliers than tractor kannons.
Tractor kannon Strictly worse than regular kannon, even against flyers.
Mini mek He has a cool model, but he really has no purpose. Waste of points.
Flash Gitz Very expensive and very squishy. They badly need a transport but they also need to remain stationary.
Stompa Costs three times they points of a grokanaut with the shooting of one.

Orks place in the meta:
Spoiler:
(as of February 2018)
  • The general consensus on these forums is that Orks are a LOW to MID tier army. People will often say we are one of the best “index” armies (probably second, behind sisters). Importantly: anyone with a codex will typically have a natural advantage over you (except maybe grey knights). Consider the broader context when building your list. If you are playing against an army that is considered top tier (such as Imperial Soup) you should bring your A game, even if they state they are bringing a fluffy list.

  • In a tournament setting, when extremely powerful single units are dominating the meta, such as Bobby G or the brothers Mag and Morty, Orks horde style will increase in value. Alpha strike armies will take the stage and are aimed at killing these monsters in one turn. So, bringing a large volume of cheap units has the chance to counter this strategy. However, when you see other horde armies dominating the meta, for example the end of 2017 where conscript spam was a huge deal, our green-tide list drops in value. During those months, Gargantuan Squiggoth lists were doing very well as that unit alone was a nightmare to destroy with guns that were aimed to kill T3 units. If you’re going to bring Orks, your army is not strong enough to disregard/define the meta, you should bring a list that counters the current hot-stuff-list.

  • Here’s a recent meta breakdown of the LVO 2018. The data shown corresponds closely to the consensus on these forums (at least for orks).

  • There are some themes in what people are bringing to recent ITC tournaments:
    /u/JelloJay on Reddit comments about Orks in the LVO 2018
    "Quite a few ork players went 4-2.
    Everyone has KFF big meks, weirdboys, and most have painboys. After that, it's a smattering of stormboys, kommandos, KMKs, dakkajets, and big trakks:
    Jacob Ballard, 4-1-1 120 boys 36 stormboys nearly 90 grots 30 kommandos
    Michael Grove, 4-2 90 boys 9 kommandos 15 kommandos 5 kmks double dakkajets 3 weirdboys, ghazzy
    Charles Craig, 4-2 90 grots 60 stormboys (25, 25, 10) dakkajet 4 weirdboys
    Rich Kilton, 4-2 (#1 ork) boy spam, stormboys, 6 weirdboys
    Val Heffelfinger 4-2 (#2 ork) 60 boys, 38 stormboys, aquila strongpoint, kommandos
    Ben Jurek 4-2 (a new player to boot) 90 boys weirdboys garg squig dakkajet 6 kmks big trakk kommandos
    Geoffrey Beaman, 3-2-1 ghazzy 50 boys 26 grots 4 weirdboys 2 big trakks 50 stormboys 2 big trakks 5 KMKS
    Mason Moore 3-3. Chinorks with Flash gitz! 60 boys, tons of grots, weirdboys"
  • More recently, two Ork players performed very well in the 40k GT Heat 3. One list was reported to have brought green tide + mek support. Much of the discussion around this unexpected result included the mission types being favourable for hordes, as we can control multiple objectives for a substantially long time before we are tabled. This tournament ran Chapter Approved missions.

  • WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH
    Below are some examples of archetypes of Ork lists that are cropping up.
    They are by no means prescriptive, they are just ideas of what has worked in the past and might work for you.
    Make your own list and enjoy the hobby your own way.



    _____________
    Pure Green Tide
    This is currently the DakkaDakkaDakka consensus of the best list Orks currently have. When the new Ork player arrives on these forums and asks “what should I bring?” the answer is “bring more boyz”, and the answer is not wrong. Pure green-tide brings our most efficient units and can sometimes completely counter a meta of high ap high damage weapons.
    Spoiler:

    Core units
    Boyz/Stormboyz/Kommandos: The more the merrier, no wrong answers between these three units. The current tendency is to bring BC instead of PK, but there is likely no wrong answer with your Boss Nob melee weapon choice. Don't upgrade your range weapons.
    Weirdboyz: Your essential heavy support unit. Supercharge your smites with 100+ bodies, and jump boyz all over the table. A versatile psyker and critical source of mortal wounds.
    Gretchin: The backfield unsung heroes. Hold objectives and even shoot someone through the eyes every now and then. An essential part of preventing deep strikes in your deployment zone.

    Example Lists

  • Jacob Ballard’s LVO 2018 (53rd): 120 boyz, 2 warbosses, 36 stormboyz, a painboy, 2 weirdboyz, snikrot, runtherd, and 84 gretchin.

  • Charles Craig's LVO 2018 (71st): 30 boyz, 90 gretchin (30, 30, 30), 1 warboss on bike, 60 stormboys (25, 25, 10), a painboy on bike, 4 weirdboyz, Zagstruk, dakkajet, trukk, runtherd, big mek (KFF), big mek on bike (KFF)

  • Rich Kilton’s LVO 2018 (117th): 98 boyz (30, 29, 29, 10) , 1 warboss, 41 stormboyz (19, 17, 5), 2 painboys, 6 weirdboyz, snikrot, nob w/ banner, battlewagon w/ ‘ard case and deff rolla.



  • Why it wins
    This army overloads the opposing armies firepower. You hope to see a tonne of las cannons and smite spam on the other side of the table. All their mortal wounds and expensive guns will have to hit a 6 point Boy, and you're happy about that. It can take some armies a full turn to delete a 30man squad of boyz, and you brought 5! You'll be able to sit on objectives forever, gum up the board, and generally own the spaces you want to own. Progressive point based missions such as ITC are excellent for this list as you can gain points every turn with objectives. However, you don't often have the punch to kill the enemy, so you'll need keen ability to use the terrain to mitigate the damage you take, or land some clever charges to turn off their firepower. If you see a flank that is out of position, get a Da Jump off and start overwhelming it with Boyz (ideally with Stormboy or Kommando support). If you can completely surround a heavy unit, you not only prevent it from falling back, but you also protect the entire boy squad from being shot at (big deal!).

    What not to do
    Sometimes (rarely) it's not the right answer to charge forward. Play the objectives, don't throw your army away. Charging forward will mean that their entire army can shoot at full strength, but if you hide and out-range some weapons you'll survive for longer and likely earn more points. Turn 1 Da Jump 30 Boyz can feel really tempting, but sometimes you're just sending them off to die, they only have a 50% chance to stick that charge after they jump. If you have enclosed buildings to hide inside, or large blocks of terrain to abuse, you should be working with those elements instead of sacrificing Boyz in the hope to "turn off their gunline". If you think you can make your enemy move forward because you are able to hide, then don't run at them and wait for them to come to you.

    Keep in mind, there are already discussions all over the competitive scene regarding what to do about "slow-play", since many armies are not completing their prescribed turns. Sometimes it can be as bad as turn 3 average. Oddly enough, I would say this benefits green-tide, but make sure you have the ability to move 200+ bodies at a reasonable speed so that you are not slapped with slow-play warnings. This can be a difficult army to finish a game in under 3 hours.

    _____________________
    Green Tide + Mek Support
    This type of list has been pretty consistently showing up as our best performer in a variety of tournaments. It has a good balance of heavy and light armour, heavy and light shooting, and leans into our most efficient units.
    Spoiler:
    Core units
    Boyz/Stormboyz: Still an essential part to the army, but you’ll more likely bring around 90 bodies instead of the 150+ in pure green tide. You may also bring less support staff; Ghazkul and warbanners will be less common in these lists. Your Stormboyz will act as a counter charge crew in some cases, or a desperate first turn charge in other cases. Don't throw them away though, they get you ITC mission points (recon) and kill characters better than anything in your army. Try to get full surrounds on units and keep the boys in combat.
    Kustom Mega Kannons: This unit changes your backfield substantially, and is the uncontested most efficient shooter we have in the index. Be smart with your Grot crews, only one is needed to shoot the guns, the rest can abuse their “Take-Cover” rule and hide all over the board. You'll almost certainly be supporting these guns with a KFF.
    a single Trukk or a Dakkajet: These units are seen in most lists of this nature. The Trukk helps drops, and protects your Tankbustas, and the Dakkajet distracts shots away from you KMKs. Both are inefficient in points, so don't bring too many, but they serve a vital role now that you have other heavy armoured units in your army that are priority targets (KMKs).

    Example Lists
  • Jeff Everitt’s Attack-X 2017 (1st)

  • Elliott Levy’s Rampager GT 2017 (2nd)

  • Ben Mohile’s NOVA Open 2017 (top 12): Zhadsnark, Big Mek on bike (KFF), 100 Boyz (30, 30, 30, 10), Trukk, 2 Big Trakk, 5 KMK, 4 Weirdboy, 1 Painboy, 10 Tank bustas (5, 5).

  • Morgan Cole’s GT Heat 3 2018 (2nd)

  • Why it wins
    You get the advantages of pure green tide when trying to overload your opponents weapons, but also have the firepower to put pressure their army. You'll likely lose an all out shooting war, but there are some armies that will have to come to you, which is great news for Boyz. The KMK line is surprisingly resilient, and the Grots are extremely effective bubble wraps for things like Magnus. You'll not find an army that can pressure your back line as well as you can pressure their back line, so try to meet people mid-field if they come running, or Jump to a weak flank after they charge out and crush their backline (while they take their sweet time getting through KMKs and dumb 5 man squads of grots). You may have the luxury to play to your strengths if the terrain allows it (i.e. shoot at em if they can't handle your KMKs, or control the board and slowly die while taking objectives).

    What not to do
    Don't act like an imperial guard gun-line and pretend KMKs will get you there (bubble-wrap and castle). As opposed to pure-green-tide (where charging forward can just cause you to lose more units for no reason), when you shut down an opponents gun-line with this army, you have now bought more turns for your KMKs to shoot. Never return to protect your gun line, let the 250 points of KMKs you brought die to Mortarion (or those turn 1 charging genestealers) and get your boyz in the field taking up space/objectives. Never lose sight of the objectives, and don't be precious about losing your heavy units (they weren't winning you the game anyway, boyz are).


    ______________________
    The Gargantuan Squiggoth
    This unit changes the dynamic of your list, and was running around in our top lists for most of late 2017. It changes the way you evaluate tankbustas, burnas, and kommandos. The ITC meta might have shifted away from bringing this beast, but it still warrants commentary.
    Spoiler:


    Core units
    The Gargantuan Squiggoth: Sit some Tankbustas on his back, or some Burnas, or some Kommandos with free burnas, wow even some Flash Gitz! (don’t bring Flash Gitz). Expect heavy fire to land on this Squiggoth, so bring heavy vehicles to support him as they will have a bit of a free time until the giant dies. Big Trakks or KMKs feel like a good fit here.

    Example Lists
  • Michael Fox’s BAO 2017 (11th)

  • John McCool’s BAO 2017 (24th)

  • Adrian Phillips’ BAO 2017(38th)

  • Val Heffelfinger’s Warzone Atlanta 2017 (2nd)

  • Why it wins
    When people are not ready to abolish 30-some wounds of a dinosaur. It’s brutal on the charge, so apparently that is essential gameplay. You ride it into battle and flame everything that’s near it and not in combat (riders can still shoot when the squig is in combat). It looks mean and dangerous, and apparently a great distraction for a flank of Big Trakks and the like.

    What not to do
    Bring him when everyone is out to kill magnus and morty. Unfortunately I’m not familiar enough with this list to know the gameplay pitfalls.


    __________
    Mechanised
    Everyone in the forums wants to bring their heavy armour toys, so I’m including this as general advice only. This stuff here is strictly fluffly. None of this information has shown proven effectiveness in a tournament army, so it’s really just speculation. I suppose the reason you would do this is to bring only heavy armoured units to bolster the durability of boyz or to negate the effectiveness of zero AP weapons. Or perhaps you want to get your games done really reallllllly quickly.
    Spoiler:

    Likely the best performing units
    Trukks (with tankbustas), Dakkajets/Burna Bombas, Big Trakks, Killtanks, and Mek Gunz. This is just a mix of things that have reasonable durability and some firepower on them. You rarely (if ever) want to add any weapons on a vehicle that has BS 5+, so avoid that at all costs. Bring more vehicles and fill them up with green boyz instead.

    Things that have potential
    Morkanauts, Battlewagons (w/ deffrollas and killkannons), and Warbikers/Nobz on bikes. Battlewagons pop up every now and then, T8 is no joke but you can't shoot out of it at that point. Bikers have been on some peoples radars but like every other army, there are too many 2 and 3 damage weapons out there for bikers with a mere 4+ save to not get deleted.

    Things that look tempting, but you should avoid:
    Killa Kans, Deff Dreads, Stompas, Flash Gitz, and Mega Nobz. Don't do it. Just don't. Bring em if you want to win a painting competition and like to have huuuuge breaks between rounds.

    Example Lists
    nah

    How the list works
    It waits for our codex.


    Please help me build this into something useful. You can almost consider the headings placeholders, I really didn't know what to put here that would be useful for everyone (I only know what I would like). If you consume some resource that others should know about, lets hear about it. If you think I've missed anything crucial, or would like to have a heading added whatever, lets make it happen. i dont know why i signed up for this please help
     Filename Mathammer Orks (rvd1).xlsb.xlsx [Disk] Download
     Description rvd1ofakind's mathhammer
     File size 1758 Kbytes

     Filename Orkz Iz Fer Fightin (HC).xlsx [Disk] Download
     Description HeadChime's mathhammer
     File size 1172 Kbytes

       
    Made in us
    Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






    Texas

    Very nice consolidation of info.

    10000+
    10000+
    8500+
    3000+
    8000+
    3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans

    DakkaSwap Successful Transactions: cormadepanda, pretre x3, LibertineIX, Lbcwanabe, privateer4hire, Cruentus (swap), Scatwick2 (swap), boneheadracer (swap), quickfuze (swap), Captain Brown (swap) x2, luftsb, Forgottonson, WillvonDoom, bocatt (swap)

    *I'm on Bartertown as Dynas 
       
    Made in us
    Nasty Nob






    Very cool thread

    ERJAK wrote:


    The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.

     
       
    Made in ru
    !!Goffik Rocker!!






    Great job I love the fading WAAAAGH part.
       
    Made in au
    Grovelin' Grot Rigger






    Hey mate, great start here! A couple of opinions though - first, isn't the Dakkajet one of our most points effective units? It's BS4 (if all the guns point at the same target), with lots of dakka, and fast. As you pointed out, it is amazing at character assassination.

    The second unit is one that i think you've criminally underrated: Rokkit Buggies. The Chapter Approved points drop really saved them, so that you can now take three for the cost of two - like anything Orky, they're best in greater numbers. Six Rokkits (three Warbuggies) works to an average of two hits, at S8 AP-2 3D. Very useful. Which leads into a third thing, a hybrid list ive been having a lot of success with:

    Da Alpha Strike! It will basically work as a supplement to other lists - I run two or three mobs of Kommandos, with Warbuggies as fire support. For around 300 points you can have three min Kommando mobs and three Rokkit buggies in place to support your Da Jump mob.

    Something else that I've been having some success with is Jumping small Tankbusta mobs against lists like IG parking lots - you can throw away 100 points to cripple Basilisks and the like, and when theyre combined with Rokkit Buggies you can do real damage. I've managed to use bomb Squigs as character hunters recently too; there's often room in T1 or T2 to drop in a 7 model unit where a 30 Boy mob wouldn't fit, and 2 Squigs hitting on 2s can ruin a character's day (got Cawl with some on Monday evening).


     
       
    Made in au
    Flashy Flashgitz






    Thanks for the comments. I'm really interested in your success with the buggies (have you used skorchas?), that is something that no one is talking about on these forums. Can you give an example list? Maybe some strengths and weaknesses? I really like your use-case of mini-alpha-strike-support with a jump, I've never tried something like that. Have you considered Chinorks for this strategy? I think buggies have been largely disregarded because of their BS5+, and if they are not shooting they are doing nothing else that exciting.

    And as for the dakkajet, I'm open to it being top teir, personally it's my favourite unit to bring in ITC. But I think I'm a little biased since dakkajets are only recently gaining steam in their success. Maybe the only limiting factor is that you can not spam them, realistically it is too expensive and inefficient to bring more than... 3? For me that makes the dakkajet not as good as a boy, or a weirdboy, etc. But I would argue the dakkajet is an essential component to bring as a one-of in every ITC list.
       
    Made in au
    Grovelin' Grot Rigger






    I have used Skorchas, but they're a bit rubbish to Outflank with - that 8" range. They do rock when sitting behind some screening units to target Tau Stealthsuits and the like though.

    Buggies are a bit of a surprise package: as well as having Outflank they have a 4+, 5W, T5, and four Attacks in assault. Obviously the negative is their BS5, but when you take three puff them you should average 2 S8 AP-2 hits. I know some Redditors who run six, but I usually just take three - although six are only 350 points, so above about 1k that should be more viable.

    Basically, I combo them with three min Kommandos mobs - two Burnas in each, if I'm feeling saucy I'll give the Nobz Big Choppas. This means that you end up with six Rokkit shots from the Buggies and nine Slugga shots; and in the Assault phase you get six AP-2 attacks from the Burnas, nine whatever you've put on your Kommando Nobz, twenty-seven from your Kommandos, and twelve from your Buggies. Four different charges, which means that statistically two should get in. This is before we even account for what you've Da Jumped.

    I like the look of Chinorks, and am planning a kitbash of one from some spare Koptas I've got lying around - 80 points is a steal. Sucks that the guns are heavy, but I reckon putting some Nobz in there with ammo runts to take the inevitable crash wounds would be a lethal addition to my Alpha Strike.

     
       
    Made in ru
    !!Goffik Rocker!!






     ChrisWhite wrote:
    criminally underrated: Rokkit Buggies


    It's hard to underrate a primarily shooty unit that you need to invest ~ 650 points into to kill a single rhino.

    I've fielded both buggies and skorchas and while they might be fun for a casual game where you don't really want to win, they're too inefficient for anything else. Not durable enough for points to be a disruptor, too low damage output to kill anything significant. Can probbly be used to hold back till the anti-tank is down to grab points later on in the game. So, this might work in casual. They're fun to convert of course.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/05 06:20:41


     
       
    Made in it
    Waaagh! Ork Warboss




    Italy

    Single buggies worked for me like min squad of kommandos, they both don't do much damage but they may be useful during the game. I prefer skorchas since we have more efficient range anti tank than rocket buggies, but they're also ok. Of course you need lots of armored stuff to make them worthy like mek gunz, planes, trukks, BWs, kanz...

     
       
    Made in au
    Grovelin' Grot Rigger






    I find that you don't necessarily have to kill the unit you're shooting at - dropping something like Basilisks, Wyverns, Preds, or Razorbacks down a tier should be enough to give your oncoming army some survivability. I find that, when combined with Kommandos and your Da Jump, it's enough of a distraction to buy more of your enemy's shooting, meaning even more survivability for everyone else.

    650 points of Buggies is what, 10 Buggies? That's 20 shots, 7 hits at AP-2. 21 Wounds inflicted, slightky less, depending on saves. You should kill two Rhinos with that.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    And I'm not a huge fan of Skorchas, given that you can't shoot anything on the turn you come in!

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/05 08:28:59


     
       
    Made in de
    Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






    Since skorchas are assault weapons, you are better off deploying them on the field and advancing them towards something valuable. If you deploy them on a flank they can reach most of that table half turn 1.

    IMO the outrider deployment is a trap.

    7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
    Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
    A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
    Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
    Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
    Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
    Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
    Orks do not have the power of believe. 
       
    Made in ru
    !!Goffik Rocker!!






     ChrisWhite wrote:

    650 points of Buggies is what, 10 Buggies? That's 20 shots, 7 hits at AP-2. 21 Wounds inflicted, slightky less, depending on saves. You should kill two Rhinos with that.


    1 buggy costs 57 pts, it has 2 rokkit shots, 0.67 of which hit, 0.4 of which wound, 0.296 of which go through armor and cause 3 wounds resulting in 0.89 damage per buggy. Divide 10 rhino wounds by 0.89 and you end up with 11.25 buggies. That's 641.25 pts of rokkit buggies.

    Well, technically, since you can only deal 3 wounds at a time, you need to down 12 instead of 10. Means you need to deal 4 unsaved wounds to a rhino. That's 770 pts of rokkit buggies. In comparison, you need 810 pts of shootaboyz that will ONLY shoot to kill a rhino. That's how bad rokkit buggies are at actually killing anything.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/05 09:38:01


     
       
    Made in us
    Been Around the Block





    we ran buggies at adepticon for the team tournament, strictly to fit our theme. I own a ton and really hadn't used them in 8th yet. They performed lackluster at best, especially compared to the tankbustas in trukks.

    I love the idea of them but they need something to help. Maybe three shots? Maybe 2d3 shots that do 2 damage? They need something for sure.
       
    Made in gb
    Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





    Liverpool

    A good thread that could do with a little updating since the last FAQ

    The Chinork is definitely worth mentioning. Price of a trukk that can deepstrike and is now open topped!
       
    Made in ca
    Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





     grendel083 wrote:
    A good thread that could do with a little updating since the last FAQ

    The Chinork is definitely worth mentioning. Price of a trukk that can deepstrike and is now open topped!


    It's the real world cost of the Chinork that is prohibitive. Being in Canada means that I could buy 5 trukks for the cost of 1 Chinork (75 pounds plus delivery works out to $150 after exchange). The Chinork won't last long enough on the table to justify that.
       
    Made in de
    Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






     grendel083 wrote:
    A good thread that could do with a little updating since the last FAQ

    The Chinork is definitely worth mentioning. Price of a trukk that can deepstrike and is now open topped!


    Currently none of the FW units are mentioned because no one bothered to make a list. Feel free to create one, and I will add it to the first page.

    Outside of that, I think we should wait for the codex before updating anything. Especially kommandoz have fallen a lot in value, for example.

    7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
    Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
    A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
    Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
    Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
    Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
    Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
    Orks do not have the power of believe. 
       
    Made in au
    Flashy Flashgitz






    I'm posting this here in this thread as well as the main thread because it can get a bit bogged down over there.

    Spoiler:


    Here's how I'd play em, and some mandatory CP spending.
    List 1:
    This is a standard area denial list. You backfield will be all grots and 1x30 boyz and 1x10 boyz. deploy KMK as far forward as possible. Spend 2 CP to deepstrike 1x30 boyz. Turn 1 you are using warbikes dakka guns and stormboyz and even your KMK to clear space and kill screens for your beta strike turn 2.
    Turn 2 you Mob up your backfield boyz (40man) and da jump with your deepstrike. That's 70 boyz, they all have to be evil sunz for the 8" charge. KMKs are best blue, as we've discussed, and your big mek sticks around back there. I'd load up the wartrike with the relic klaw and the evil suns warlord trait that allows fall back shoot and charge. Nothing ground breaking in this list, but I think its very good. Suffers from not enough -AP. I like this list because the warbikes are the only targets for billowing smoke, and it really helps them stick around, i'm thinking a 10man warbike squad is pretty comparable to 30 shootas, in damage and price.

    List 2:
    Really not sure how this list goes, but they all fit in battlewagons, pretty cheap now those cars. You got some 1x10 boyz for objectives at the back, they need to be the blood axe ones so you can get at least a 5+. The vehicles being blood axe is also pretty solid. Still jumping a 1x30 boyz here, but the 2x19 are in wagons and the flashgitz might do some work as well, who knows. I'm not sold on this list, but it's something.

    List 3:
    I'm pretty sure this is the only way to play Kans. The deep strike stratagem allows 20PL or less, and currently deff dreads are 21 PL for three in a unit. SO if that drops down below 20, then this idea is fething fire. No big shootas on your deff dreads, you just spend 4 CP and launch 6x4 kan klaws at your enemy, they have to be evil sunz for the charge. It's actually super affordable. The rest of this list leans on some battle wagons doing the ramming speed stratagem and hurting things with deff rollas, they were good before but way better now with the price. You want as many speedy HQ as possible in this list beacuse your deff dreads will protect them very well by being closer. Keep in mind, once the deff dreds land you're GUARANTEED to get a charge off since you're making 6 different 8" rerollable charges, theres no way they'll all fail. Best thing about this list as they really have nothing to shoot but t7+ targets for turn 1. Maybe get a 'ard top for the ghazkul battlewagon.
    This list can't kill flyers, and once it lands, it's really slow, probably gets slammed by eldar/harlequins.
    I'm spending a lot of CP on relics in this list, if wartrikes can pick them up i'll be bringing the new klaw, headwoppa, and making one of them cybork body 5+++.

    List 4:
    Snakebite Goff babeeeeee, i'm leaning into Monster Hunter stratagem here (+1 to W vs a target). I'd be skarboyzing 2x30 boy squads here, deep strike one, and da jump the other, crash that gak turn 2. The non skarboy 1x30 can trudge up the board with ghaz, keep him safe. You clear a path with your dakka jets (dont forget make one of them -2 to hit with billowing smoke stratagem) and then land your dick punch goff boy team turn 2 and warpath one of them.

    Turn 1, you da jump the tankbustas, pop monster hunter, and shoot all your KMK, squiggs, and rokkits at whatever you want, magnus, morty, castellans, shadowblades, whatever. get it done. The tankbustas will die, but what I like about this list as that all the things on the table worth shooting will have 6+++, and the dakkajets will be -1 and -2 to hit. I think this list has legs.

    Warboss has the headwoppa relic here. Warlord trait will be +1atk and +1str, give ghaz a run for his money.

    List 5:
    I tried to make the best gunline I could think of without bringing 18 KMK (which is probably still correct btw). Of the new vehicles, the scrapjet with the +1 to hit vehicles is probably the only one worth bringing, and it has a specific anti-tank role in this list that the list would otherwise suffer a bit from. I think 1x30 boyz mobbed up with 1x10, da jumped, and shoot twice with the bad moonz stratagem is going to be NASTY, and may well fit into every list. Once you delete their screens with 160 shots (not including DDD on 5's with the stratagem), you'll drop down the deep striking nobz to clean up the heavy armor. In this list im spending 6CP to deep strike all three of my elite squads. The only thing that bothers me is that they are not evil sunz (they probably should be), but I think specifically in this list you want nobz to be goffs because the exploding 6's really benefit these heavy hitters. You're hoping these nobz land and do serious damage, beacuse they are DEAD after they've finished. But fighting after they die should be awesome (stratagem). I would consider a wartrike in here instead of the big mek on bike perhaps, if you wanted to adv and charge the scrapjets.
    I know this is going to sound weird, but im bringing the +1 psych power relic with this list. you NEED that spell to go off. But the thunderbluss wouldnt be the worst either.

    List 6:
    Blood axes are how you make a good and solid area denial brigade. Imagine the lootahs, they are in trukks in this list, as we used to do it. But, with the looted tank stratagem, once the trukk dies, these guys are 4+ wherever they stand, and hopefuly they get a point drop. If you're using max range with these blokes that'll make them pretty hard to kill, so long as you have taken up enough space to stop the flyers getting in your deployment zone. Otherwise im just min maxing the rest of the army here, I still want the shoota mob up/da jump here from list 5 to clear out screens (but its no where as good as bad moonz version), but there are heaps of durable notes here. 10 warbikes will love billowing smoke -1, the boomdakka has that built in, the two painboyz will go a long way here, and you've got a stationary and mobile big mek KFF.

    This is the only list i would consider 'ard boy stratagem, and i would put it on all three of my boy squads for 6CP, worth.
    Just for flavors sake, i would give my big mek on bike the finkin hat. Load him up with +1 atk +1str +1dmg and rerolls, then give him headwoppa.

    P.S there are heaps of point errors and spelling errors or whatever in this post, but you get the idea. I did this compilation mostly from memory and mostly for myself but thought i'd share some ideas. Any point value in a box is me speculating... e.g. i think lootas will drop a couple of points, and KMK might go back to their original point value before CA.
       
     
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