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Kindof a lore question and rules question.

Does anyone know of any lore reason why we don't commanders wearing centurion armor?
I know that it and Terminator armor are both priceless relics but we see numerous battlefield commanders wearing Terminator armor. I know it probably has more versatility than Centurion armor due to the whole teleporty thing but still.

Secondly is there a rules reason anyone knows of and what might your ideas be for a "Captain in Centurion Armor" look like rules wise?

Probably because there's no model for it just like how Dreadknights have no Captain option and GW likes to be consistent.

GW hasn't released a model for it and they don't want a 3rd-party studio creating an unofficial "Big Boy Centurio" knockoff. That's the most likely reason at any rate.

I'd guess it wasn't as profitable to make up a captain sprue as well.

Ignoring the god awful pile of gak which is the Centurion's design...probably because it's not intended for a Captain to slowly trudge around in a non-teleporting huge pile of metal. It's a support frame for weapons or siege equipment.

That...all makes sense. Thank you all.
I kinda liked the idea of a command unit slowly trudging around the battlefield like a giant obstinate wall.

 Austinman42 wrote:
Kindof a lore question and rules question.

Does anyone know of any lore reason why we don't commanders wearing centurion armor?
I know that it and Terminator armor are both priceless relics but we see numerous battlefield commanders wearing Terminator armor. I know it probably has more versatility than Centurion armor due to the whole teleporty thing but still.

Secondly is there a rules reason anyone knows of and what might your ideas be for a "Captain in Centurion Armor" look like rules wise?

For the same reason we don't have Scout or Devastator Captains.
They "don't fit" the flavor of what GW thinks Marinez should have.

Same reason we don't have Guard Commanders with Lasguns or access to Special Weapons, same reason we don't get generic Pathfinder heroes, Eldar Ranger heroes, etc etc. They don't think that we'd really want those things so nobody puts effort into them.

Same reason why there is only one tank commander.

only a weenie would hide in double tank armor

We have an Eldar Ranger hero. Even if nobody ever seems to like him because he was so overpriced....

Well count me among the few who want a big walking mobile fortress who's so encompassed by armor there's no more room for weapons..

Literal embodiment of Imperial Fists

pm713 wrote:
We have an Eldar Ranger hero. Even if nobody ever seems to like him because he was so overpriced....

I said "generic" in front of the Pathfinder part. Thought it should have been clear enough that I meant generics for all of those things.

 Kanluwen wrote:

pm713 wrote:
We have an Eldar Ranger hero. Even if nobody ever seems to like him because he was so overpriced....

I said "generic" in front of the Pathfinder part. Thought it should have been clear enough that I meant generics for all of those things.

I missed the word generic. My bad.

Well first off, cents are a regular broken marines thing so I wouldn't worry about any new stuff like a Captain. Besides rules wise a Captain in Cent armour would be only marginally as effective as a normal Primaris Marine in his loincloth.

More to the point, if GW ever did release such a Captain, he would be found to have existed this whole time. Actually Marneus Calgar was really wearing Cent armour the whole time... really...

Well, as of the appearance of the Primaris forces, we have better (at least fluff wise). There's no way that an Aggressor in their Gravis armor isn't superior to a Centurion, even if they are more lightly armed. And then we have the Primaris Captain in Gravis armor.

There would be no battlefield benefit to having a force leader clunking around awkwardly in Centurion armor like a mini Dreadnought. Leaders in the Astartes tend to lead from the front.

pm713 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

pm713 wrote:
We have an Eldar Ranger hero. Even if nobody ever seems to like him because he was so overpriced....

I said "generic" in front of the Pathfinder part. Thought it should have been clear enough that I meant generics for all of those things.

I missed the word generic. My bad.

No harm done. Like I said, I thought it should have been clear enough--I guess it wasn't.

I've long wanted a generic Scout character, I want a generic Reiver character(failing that--a Raven Guard specific one and hell let's go with a Raven Guard specific unit of Reivers armed with Stalker Bolt-Rifles!), Company Commanders to have access to specials/lasguns(like we saw with DOWII), and more things like that.

Because it would look silly.

 Kanluwen wrote:

For the same reason we don't have Scout or Devastator Captains.
They "don't fit" the flavor of what GW thinks Marinez should have.

Scout and devastator captains would be pretty cool and would be a great little flavour thing for probably a good chunk of chapters.

Chapter Master: "I wish to take a missile launcher to the battlefield as my weapon of choice."
Master of the Armory: "I'm sorry brother, the codex astrates forbids it."
Chapter Master: "But, brother, I have been using it for years and am more likely to take out threats to the Imperium of Man with it than any other in our chapter."
Master of the Armory: "The will of the emperor decrees that you shall run up to the enemy and hit it with a weapon blessed by his power. You can chose between axes, fists, lances, mauls, claws, swords..."
Chapter master: "Never mind."
Scout: "Hey, I'm new here. Can I have a missile launcher?"
Master of the Armory: "Sure, here you go."
Chapter Master: "..."

Didn't Chaos Lords have access to Heavy Bolters back in the day or am I remembering wrong

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Didn't Chaos Lords have access to Heavy Bolters back in the day or am I remembering wrong

Tzeentch had a thing called a "Kai Gun" that was effectively a Heavy Bolter IIRC.

 Kanluwen wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

pm713 wrote:
We have an Eldar Ranger hero. Even if nobody ever seems to like him because he was so overpriced....

I said "generic" in front of the Pathfinder part. Thought it should have been clear enough that I meant generics for all of those things.

I missed the word generic. My bad.

No harm done. Like I said, I thought it should have been clear enough--I guess it wasn't.

I've long wanted a generic Scout character, I want a generic Reiver character(failing that--a Raven Guard specific one and hell let's go with a Raven Guard specific unit of Reivers armed with Stalker Bolt-Rifles!), Company Commanders to have access to specials/lasguns(like we saw with DOWII), and more things like that.

In previous editions, I used the eldar sniper rifle relic to represent something along the lines of a generic ranger character. It was actually kind of an interesting option to have for a farseer or autarch that didn't want to scoot all over the table on a bike.

While I'm not sure it would make much sense in the Imperial Guard, it would seem pretty reasonable for a SM Captain to be harmed with a heavy weapon. If I recall correctly, in DoW 2, Davian Thule was armed with a Heavy Bolter, prior to being deaded.

It's not like carting around a heavy or special weapon makes it much harder for your average SM to do his job, not like it would for a Guardsman. I wish the rules on the tabletop allowed us this kind of freedom. Even narrative play doesn't allow for more customisation with your models.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
While I'm not sure it would make much sense in the Imperial Guard, it would seem pretty reasonable for a SM Captain to be harmed with a heavy weapon. If I recall correctly, in DoW 2, Davian Thule was armed with a Heavy Bolter, prior to being deaded.

It's not like carting around a heavy or special weapon makes it much harder for your average SM to do his job, not like it would for a Guardsman. I wish the rules on the tabletop allowed us this kind of freedom. Even narrative play doesn't allow for more customisation with your models.

If you played DoW2 but didn't play Chaos Rising or the last one; you missed that the Guard Commander had the ability to take a Special Weapon in lieu of a pistol.

Well, it would be cool if the most elite-est ubermensch-iest of the Emperor's finest could actually do what the feth they wanted in the armoury, as you'd expect of the autonomous leader of a fighting body...


I agree that more customizable dudes are required. For all the factions! Not just the Spacemaris Marines. I mean, that's kind of the best part right? Picking your own combo of options to make a dude that does what you want! Maybe even, gasp, kit bashing! Augh! GW dies inside when you kit bash.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Didn't Chaos Lords have access to Heavy Bolters back in the day or am I remembering wrong

Tzeentch had a thing called a "Kai Gun" that was effectively a Heavy Bolter IIRC.

That was a generic daemon weapon available in the 3.5 codex. The 5th ed codex had the Tzeentch daemon weapon be a gun, though. In 2nd ed, lords could take special weapons but not heavy weapons, like most any character. In RT, though, characters could purchase a roll on the heavy weapons table and end up with most anything. You want your World Eaters chaplain to have lascannon? Better hope you're lucky.

I'm fine with characters not having heavy weapons. Officers do not usually operate such things in real militaries either. They are actually trying to lead, they don't have the time to hassle with such things.

However, I really think there should be more variety for characters. Using Marines as example, there definitely should be generic scout and tank commanders (it is utterly crazy that only UM has those. So some UM is better at using tanks than any Iron Hand and again some UM is better at scout stuff than Raven Guard?) And yes, you should be able or take Centurion Armour, or Reiver gear or Inceptor gear. There is really no reason a character's couldn't use those.

Honestly I think everyone wishes Centurions don't exist. That's a dead-end concept. I would not expect anything else Centurion-based from GW.

CassianSol wrote:

Honestly I think everyone wishes Centurions don't exist. That's a dead-end concept. I would not expect anything else Centurion-based from GW.

As I once told someone else when we where discussing the ncessity of Primaris Marines. Centurions are a good example of where Marines where going if Primaris Marines didn't become a thing. specialized units that filled roles already taken by other marine units

 Crimson wrote:
I'm fine with characters not having heavy weapons. Officers do not usually operate such things in real militaries either. They are actually trying to lead, they don't have the time to hassle with such things.

However, I really think there should be more variety for characters. Using Marines as example, there definitely should be generic scout and tank commanders (it is utterly crazy that only UM has those. So some UM is better at using tanks than any Iron Hand and again some UM is better at scout stuff than Raven Guard?) And yes, you should be able or take Centurion Armour, or Reiver gear or Inceptor gear. There is really no reason a character's couldn't use those.

In Talion and Chrons’s defense, when they came out (5th) the rules encouraged you to take special characters and re-name them to make them your own. There was also nothing mechanically to restrict them to a chapter, like CT does now. I know I had plans to make a counts-as Lysander to act as my first company captain. Good thing I never got around to that before the edition changed. So at the time they were “generic” special characters from the example chapter. But at the time I do recall thinking to myself “why UM? we’ve got plenty of guys already, and they fit other chapter’s MO a lot better”

The worst case of armory restriction are the primaris. That’s the no model, no rule thing brought to it’s insane end. The primaris captain can only take what’s modeled, and as they release more limited edition ones, we get more options. But would he prefer an axe to a sword, or a grav pistol? Nope.

BrianDavion wrote:

CassianSol wrote:

Honestly I think everyone wishes Centurions don't exist. That's a dead-end concept. I would not expect anything else Centurion-based from GW.

As I once told someone else when we where discussing the ncessity of Primaris Marines. Centurions are a good example of where Marines where going if Primaris Marines didn't become a thing. specialized units that filled roles already taken by other marine units

Yup, they were pretty redundant and uninspired. Game, model and fluff wise.