Switch Theme:

Skirmishers seem too powerful in Black powder?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

Am I missing something?
No penalty of movement.
Harder to hit in shooting
More likely to hit you in shooting.
Same morale saves.
Only thing is they can't charge line or attack formed infantry/cavalry.

What am I missing?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/25 08:40:46


 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

I will have to re-check my rules on them. I do not recall, but I remember there being some drawbacks.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

There are some. Not many. Can't charge Line or Attack Formation. I think morale modifier if disorganized. I gotta say, it seems like Black Powder could be a bit more clear. My group weren't fans. Regardless, I will be doing some after action reports on the Battle of Jacks Ford and the Battle for Dignity

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/27 03:41:53


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Building a blood in water scent

Black Powder is great for quick and easy fun games. Not suited for competitive play.

We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







They tend to be expensive and hard to get access to in the pick-up game points systems (I've got the Hundred Days book in front of me and the British can have about four non-Small skirmish units per 1,000pts and can only get to one skirmish unit per line unit by absurd min/maxxing), and they're pretty crap in melee, between the -1 to hit, the small unit sizes, and no supports.

It's also worth noting that the "skirmisher" bonuses are "while in skirmish formation"; the keyword means that unit is allowed to enter skirmish formation whenever it feels like it (line infantry are normally only allowed to enter skirmish formation to enter terrain they couldn't enter otherwise), you lose all those bonuses/penalties if you form up (for instance: if someone's cavalry charges you and you form square to ward them off, their cannons then get to have a good day).

You can try building an army with all skirmish infantry to see what happens, but I don't think it'd help much if you were doing anything other than fighting a field battle with no cover or structures. You're going to have a pretty nasty time trying to root any kind of guard unit out of a structure with just skirmishers.

That said if you do shove a large battalion of Rifles or some such into melee with an entrenched opponent and win you should totally post a picture so we can marvel at the hilarity/absurdity of it.


Addendum: Scanning through the Civil War sourcebook too; it doesn't have as formalized a pick-up game points system as the Napoleonic ones do, but they recommend one skirmish regiment per 4 or 5 line regiments, and the guys who playtested that book only gave skirmishers the +1 to hit when firing at troops in close order (infantry in line and mounted cavalry).

To my mind the advantages of having an entire skirmish battalion/regiment is outweighed by the fact that most of these units have the ability to deploy a skirmish screen anyway, so they can effectively get most of the advantages of being skirmishers on a temporary basis without paying any extra points, and it works on everyone, not just 1/4 to 1/2 of your army.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/01 02:30:19


Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

You're not really missing anything. I think a lot of people only apply the "skirmishers" rules to dedicated skirmish units, like rifles. And then they should generally be tiny or small units.

If it's just meant to represent regular infantrymen in skirmish formation, or it's a regular infantry unit that is in skirmish formation to traverse some terrain that requires it, I don't give them the +1 to hit modifier.

Also, keep in mind that in reality you could have say one company in a skirmish line covering an entire brigade. So your skirmish units should generally be tiny and take up a large amount of frontage. And you don't really have to shoot at them, just charge and they'll likely fall back.

But yeah, they didn't do a great job representing skirmishers. Like was mentioned, the units aren't really meant to be competitively balanced.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




My gaming group is just getting into Black Powder Napoleonics and I've been thinking the same thing about skirmishers. If they were that good historically everyone would have run skirmishers instead of lines of infantry. My late light infantry are a great example...skirmishers so they are better shots and harder to hit, roll the same number of attack dice as a line unit, have sharpshooters and better range (rifled muskets). That seems to be a bit much. I also haven't seen the new rulebook which may have some changes

I like the rule of restricting skirmish bonuses to dedicated skirmish units (doesn't help in the above example) and making them tiny or small seems to be a good way to tone them down a bit. What do you think of giving them the morale save bonus (save on a 3+) but make their shooting worse (hit on a 5+)? My rationale is based on a couple of ideas. First, the whole point (as I understand it) of line infantry was to improve the chance to hit...muskets weren't terribly accurate so bunching them together should produce better results. Spreading your unit out would logically have the opposite effect (in the theoretical realm of my mind at least). Also, it seems to fit the role of skirmishers more accurately. As I understand it, their role wasn't so much to be primary combat units but to act as screens for the line (thus the better defense), scout the enemy and the like.

Any feedback on this idea would be awesome. Thanks in adavnce.
   
 
Forum Index » Historical Miniature Games: Pre-WW1
Go to: