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Who can defeat the Lord of Changes in a psychic duel? I'm not talking about the most powerful like Kairos, but let's say the average Lord of Changes.
Can the average tyranid Maleceptor or Eldar Farseer/Wraithseer/Shadowseer defeat the Great Daemon of Tzeentch?
We are talking about the average against the average, that is, there is no Magnus or Eldrad.

If it went on average then I don't believe any. Which is the point. A hero rises above the average to defeat the powerful threat.

A Grey Knight Grandmaster could probably hold is own against a Lord of Change.

What about Draigo (Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights)?

SG

Draigo certainly could but he is on the level of Eldrad etc. In that he is an outlier in power not the norm for a grandmaster. I mean the guy banished a daemon Prince on his first day on the job as a grey knight.

In game terms -
Nothing short of a FW or Magnus stands a chance against a LOC in a psychic duel. Even if melle is considered...it only gets worse for the opposing psyker - LOC is very good in CC.

A 6 man unit of Zonethropes is probably the most capable non super hero capable of facing off with only psychic powers.

Farseers probably would at least have a change. They're pretty much the best mortal psykers in existence.

A Psi-Titan is technically not a superhero and only has 1 Psyker if I recall



That aside, Farseers shouild do half-decent as well as Grey Knight Librarians.

I suppose it would also depend on the location of the duel, i.e. is it happening on some random world where the LoC was temporarily summoned or is this happening in the warp, maybe even in Tzeentch's realm?

Why do people say to Draigo ? When I wrote about the average against the average, I meant that there were no big names. So I clarified about Eldrad and Magnus, but it also includes everyone like them, like Draigo or Emperor or Doom of Malan'tai

A really, really, really lucky weirdboy.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
A really, really, really lucky weirdboy.

Wouldn't he just after to believe hard enough?

 mrhappyface wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
A really, really, really lucky weirdboy.

Wouldn't he just after to believe hard enough?

Needs da blessin of gork or mork (but not too much mind).

So what about the tyranid maleceptor? I would say that zoonthropes and neurotropes can take on the horrors of Tzeentch and flamers of Tzeentch , but what about the battle of larger monsters?

Jurgen would pick his nose and shoot it in the head with his melta gun and then make some tea,

 Mr Morden wrote:
Jurgen would pick his nose and shoot it in the head with his melta gun and then make some tea,

and Commissar Cain would get the credit for the kill

Lords of Change are some of the most powerful psykers in existence. No way the average farseer or librarian even stands a bit of a chance against them. Only really powerful individuals like Eldrad can clash minds with a Lord of Change and come out on top. Others would just be driven insane.
So an average LoC will win vs any other 'average' psyker.

Your average Grey Knight Grand Master or Supreme Grand Master, maybe - but they'd be about the only things I reckon could do it. Eldar, good as they are, are not up to snuff for this one.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Your average Grey Knight Grand Master or Supreme Grand Master, maybe - but they'd be about the only things I reckon could do it. Eldar, good as they are, are not up to snuff for this one.

What? Farseers are certainly more capable psykers than Grey Knight Grand Masters.

The average Lord of Change is a rival for Magnus. The average anything else isn't even going to come close.

The Emperor can definitely defeat LoC, but that id a "god level" being.......
Remember GK Brother Captain Stern? He had defeat one of this greater daemon more than once, but got cursed by it. I think Draigo might be able to defeat LoCs as well, he might have encountered them many times walking in the warp.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
The Emperor can definitely defeat LoC, but that id a "god level" being.......

First he'd have to find a way around the whole being dead thing.

Malcador: Bring out yer dead!
[Rogal Dorn appears with the Emperor slung over his shoulder]
Rogal Dorn: Here's one.
M: Nine pence.
Emperor: I'm not dead.
M: What?
RD: Nothing. [hands Malcador his money] There's your nine pence.
E: I'm not dead!
M: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.
RD: Yes he is.
E: I'm not.
M: He isn't.
RD: Well, he will be soon, he's very hurt.
E: I'm getting better.
RD: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.
M: Well, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
E: I don't want to go on the throne.
RD:' Oh, don't be such a baby.
M: I can't take him.
E: I feel fine.
RD: Oh, do me a favor.
M: I can't.
RD: Well, can you hang around for a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
M: I promised I'd be at Fenris. They've lost nine today.
RD: Well, when's your next round?
M: Thursday.
E: I think I'll go for a walk.
RD: You're not fooling anyone, you know. Isn't there anything you could do?
E: I feel happy. I feel happy.
[Malcador paces for an idea, then whacks the body with his club, solving the problem]
RD: Ah, thank you very much.
M: Not at all. See you on Thursday.
RD: Right.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lords of Change are some of the most powerful psykers in existence. No way the average farseer or librarian even stands a bit of a chance against them. Only really powerful individuals like Eldrad can clash minds with a Lord of Change and come out on top. Others would just be driven insane.
So an average LoC will win vs any other 'average' psyker.

What about the tyranid maleceptor?

 Crimson wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Your average Grey Knight Grand Master or Supreme Grand Master, maybe - but they'd be about the only things I reckon could do it. Eldar, good as they are, are not up to snuff for this one.

What? Farseers are certainly more capable psykers than Grey Knight Grand Masters.

Says where? I dont really buy this piece of propaganda. Do not confuse eldrad plot armor with overall power of farseers.

Quantaty is a qualaty in it's own, so the hive mind has projected into my mind.

Table wrote:

Says where? I dont really buy this piece of propaganda. Do not confuse eldrad plot armor with overall power of farseers.

Everyone know that the Eldar are the best mortal psykers. Even Farseer's rules reflect this, they have more denys and a psychic reroll. GM's fluff section doesn't even mention them being particularly über psykers, they're 'just' on par with librarians, merely better fighters.

I don't see where people get that Grey Knights are some uber psycher. They are strong psychers over-specialized in protection and banishement of daemons and trained to work together in rituals and as a team, but I have never seen stated for them to be specially powerfull compared with things like normal Librarians, individually, in relation to their psychic power.

PSI Titan, probbly only thing.

i mean it is also a full warlord so even if Psi fails, it has huge ass guns

 Galas wrote:
I don't see where people get that Grey Knights are some uber psycher. They are strong psychers uber-specialized in protection and banishement of daemons and trained to work together in rituals and as a team, but I have never seen stated for them to be specially powerfull compared with things like normal Librarians, individually, in relation to their psychic power.

Yep.