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Hey all, I've browsed DakkaDakka off an on in the past but I've never posted, so let me know if I did something wrong and I'll correct it.


So I'm getting back into 40K because, well, it's not too complex and has a fairly stable playerbase, and allows more creative freedom than the other large gaming community near me (Flames of War) which is important to me. I've been putting together a list I'm going to be building and running semi-competitively, by which I mean FLGS tourneys and maybe cons near me, but nothing major. I'm not looking to sweep the competition with appalling levels of cheese, but I still want to retain the ability to have a moderately even playing field with my opponents. I'm also looking to stay more or less within the theme I've chosen, so without further ado I'll do some quick explanations of the theme and concept behind this tentative list.



So the theme I'm going for is a bit of a mixed Urban Specialists/Siege Specialists armored unit, though I'm not sure yet whether they'll be loyalist, independent mercenaries, or chaos. I'm also doing kitbashing with Rhino and Leman Russ chassis to get 2 more 'unique' looking base vehicles since I like modelling projects and having stuff that stands out a bit. One is a combo of Russ tracks and Rhino hull, and vice-versa for the other. They fit together surprisingly well and don't take much plasticard, if people want I can post pictures of my progress so far.

I wanted to be able to meet a variety of threats with the list while not diverging too far from my theme.

I wanted a big centerpiece model, and after looking at the points the Minotaur beat out all the baneblade variants while still fitting into the theme. The Trojan and Power Lifter sentinels are supposed to thematically be attendants to the Minotaur alongside one of the Techpriests and at least one of the Psykers. The Minotaur is getting the Catachan doctrine, because roll 4 pick the 2 highest with an extra reroll thrown in sounds like it'll consistently be dishing out big hits. With the added Trojan re-rolls I'm hoping it'll be able to put the hurt on anything from blobs to Lords of War.

The Spearhead Detachment is supposed to be the main threat of the list. With Pask as my Warlord and the master of command ability I'm hoping the combo of possible weapon threats and outputs will hit hard enough for them to be aggressive without the low half-movement speed causing issues so they get the extra shots, though I'm not sold on Pasks' main gun. I'm using Conquerors instead of battle cannons for a few reasons; short range to represent closer combats in urban sprawl while still having explosive siegebreaking punch, the co-axial rerolls to hit are nice, and I've always liked the Conqueror - even if the current version is a bit at odds with its predecessors. The Annihilator is for cost effective anti-big thing punch, and the Exterminator is for medium targets so I'm not wasting too much effort on terminators/bikes/etc. Not too mention lascannons and autocannons would thematically be useful against buildings and fortifications. They're Cadian for the reroll, Pask, and tank order.


The Battalion Detachment is sort of a mix between filler and useful support units. The commander and units of basic infantry are there to body block, hold positions, and occasionally get some good shooting in with FRFSRF. Plus thematically you never send armored units into urban sprawl without infantry escort, and the even the Imperium isn't quite that grimderp yet most of the time. The Artemia Hellhounds are there because I wanted to have some cheaper flame vehicles for burning targets in game and thematically because flamethrowers are good for clearing out fortifications and urban areas. I was originally going to take some Salamanders, but not having to deal with the -1 to hit for move and shoot heavy weapons made the extra points for the Artemias worth it in my eyes. The Hydra is simply anti-air cover that can double duty for shredding buildings/infantry/etc. They're Armegeddon to benefit from the extra rapid fire for the infantry and to take the bite out of Autocannons and the like for the vehicles.

Thematically the Primaris Psykers are going to be Techpriests using lostech/heretek/tech shenanigans to represent the psychic powers. IE, projecting a limited forcefield to represent Psychic Barrier, or a white noise/jamming cloud to represent Nightshroud.





Supreme Command Detachment - 1CP (Catachan)

Minotaur Artillery Tank - Lord of War 300pts
Twin Earthshaker Cannons, 2 x Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber
Smoke, Heavy Armor, Steel Behemoth, Explodes, Twin Earthshaker Extra Hits

Tech-Priest Enginseer - HQ 47pts
Omnissian Axe, Laspistol, Servo-Arm
Bionics, Master of Machines

Tech-Priest Enginseer - HQ 47pts
Omnissian Axe, Laspistol, Servo-Arm
Bionics, Master of Machines

Primaris Psyker - HQ 46pts
Laspistol, Force Stave
For Your Own Good, Power Once per Turn, Smite, Nightshroud, Psychic Barrier

TOTAL: 440pts

Spearhead Detachment - 1CP (Cadian)

Knight Commander Pask - HQ 219pts
Executioner Plasma Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber
Smoke, Grinding Advance, Tank Order x 2, Vents, Explodes, Track Guards

Leman Russ Annihilator - Heavy Support 170pts
Twin Lascannon, Heavy Bolter
Smoke, Grinding Advance, Vents, Explodes

Leman Russ Conqueror - Heavy Support 157pts
Conqueror Battle Cannon, Co-Axial Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter
Smoke, Grinding Advance, Vents, Explodes

Leman Russ Conqueror - Heavy Support 157pts
Conqueror Battle Cannon, Co-Axial Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter
Smoke, Grinding Advance, Vents, Explodes

Leman Russ - Heavy Support 155pts
Exterminator Autocannon, Heavy Bolter
Smoke, Grinding Advance, Vents, Explodes

TOTAL: 858pts

Battalion Detachment - 3CP (Armageddon)

Company Commander 30pts
Laspistol, Chainsword, Frag Grenades
Command x 2, Refractor Field

Primaris Psyker - HQ 46pts
Laspistol, Force Stave
For Your Own Good, Power Once per Turn, Smite, Nightshroud, Psychic Barrier

Infantry Squad - Troops (10 Men) 41pts
9 x Lasgun, Frag Grenades
Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag Grenades

Infantry Squad - Troops (10 Men) 41pts
9 x Lasgun, Frag Grenades
Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag Grenades

Infantry Squad - Troops (10 Men) 41pts
9 x Lasgun, Frag Grenades
Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag Grenades

Artemia Hellhound Squadron - Fast Attack (2 Artemia Hellhounds) 162pts
2 x Artemia Inferno Cannons, 2 x Heavy Bolter, 2 x Storm Bolter
Smoke, Fuel Explosion, Artemia Inferno Cannon

Hydra Flak Tank - Heavy Support 108pts
Hydra Quad Autocannon, Heavy Bolter
Smoke, Explodes, AA Targeting

Sentinel Powerlifters (3 Sentinels) - Heavy Support 135pts
3 x Powerlifter Weapons
Smoke, Scout, Explodes

Trojan Support Vehicle - Transport 98pts
Heavy Bolter
Smoke, Support Vehicle, Explodes

TOTAL: 702pts



GRAND TOTAL: 2000pts


So if anyone's having a bored day at work or feels like critiquing this, I'd greatly appreciate the feedback! I'm also having a boring work day so I should be able to respond before too long.

I see a few problems with this list. First the Supreme Command Detachment does not have enough HQ choices. I am assuming that you are taking this Detachment as a way to get the sweet sweet Catahan re-rolls on the number of shots for your big bad. In order to do that you have to take tech priests from the Asta Militarum Elites, not the ad. mech. codex or it is a mixed unit and the doctrine will not effect it. As such you can only have one Elite in that detachment, So Drop a Tech priest from the detachment and add one or two Pri. Psy. alternatively you could have a Tank Commander or Lord Commisar, or company commander from catachan (though he would not be able to order any units as the rest of your army is other regiments.) whatever choice you make it needs some change as is it is not legal at the moment. or at least will not do what you want it to do as it is.
The Cadians are parking lots by rule. they like to stay still and shoot. so kit out Pask with as much plasma as possible. drop the heavy bolter (let other squads munch up infantry) add a lascannon and two plasma cannon sponsons, and with the pound them to dust and standing still re-rolls he is a beast.) the Exterminator Autocannon is crap, I have tried many times to give it a chance but it just doesn't seem to be able to put out the damage needed, a battle cannon is far superior in all ways with the pound them to dust command placed on it, or if you want a more dakka option make it a punisher with 3 heavy bolters and watch as 49 shots of death spit from it every turn. (with Psykers giving nightshroud and psy. bar. along with the overlapping fields of fire stratagem this spearhead will be a force of punishment for any comers.
I understand you want to keep some fluff here, but to be honest I do not understand the Armegeddon detachment. without Chimeras or other transports they are just 18" rapid fire screens, which don't get me wrong is cool, but if you want screens, keep with the Cadians, not moving and re-rolling ones (or all of the missed shots if ordered to take aim) is way better than 27 rapid fire lasguns at 18". also most things targeting your Armour will be more than AP-1, so the vehicle rule for the doctrine is a waste. I would also drop the Flack tank, again I have tried to use them in the past but they are only good against flyers and a waste of points if there are none on the board (which happens often) spend those points on more infantry to screen the Armour or heavy weapon mortar teams as I can not imagine a more appropriate fluff unit than that for urban combat. In my opinion this doesn't "cheese" the army much, you still have a great narrative here and modeling can make it mesh together well AND be something that will win you some battles.

Natenerd wrote:
I see a few problems with this list. First the Supreme Command Detachment does not have enough HQ choices. I am assuming that you are taking this Detachment as a way to get the sweet sweet Catahan re-rolls on the number of shots for your big bad. In order to do that you have to take tech priests from the Asta Militarum Elites, not the ad. mech. codex or it is a mixed unit and the doctrine will not effect it. As such you can only have one Elite in that detachment, So Drop a Tech priest from the detachment and add one or two Pri. Psy. alternatively you could have a Tank Commander or Lord Commisar, or company commander from catachan (though he would not be able to order any units as the rest of your army is other regiments.) whatever choice you make it needs some change as is it is not legal at the moment. or at least will not do what you want it to do as it is.
The Cadians are parking lots by rule. they like to stay still and shoot. so kit out Pask with as much plasma as possible. drop the heavy bolter (let other squads munch up infantry) add a lascannon and two plasma cannon sponsons, and with the pound them to dust and standing still re-rolls he is a beast.) the Exterminator Autocannon is crap, I have tried many times to give it a chance but it just doesn't seem to be able to put out the damage needed, a battle cannon is far superior in all ways with the pound them to dust command placed on it, or if you want a more dakka option make it a punisher with 3 heavy bolters and watch as 49 shots of death spit from it every turn. (with Psykers giving nightshroud and psy. bar. along with the overlapping fields of fire stratagem this spearhead will be a force of punishment for any comers.
I understand you want to keep some fluff here, but to be honest I do not understand the Armegeddon detachment. without Chimeras or other transports they are just 18" rapid fire screens, which don't get me wrong is cool, but if you want screens, keep with the Cadians, not moving and re-rolling ones (or all of the missed shots if ordered to take aim) is way better than 27 rapid fire lasguns at 18". also most things targeting your Armour will be more than AP-1, so the vehicle rule for the doctrine is a waste. I would also drop the Flack tank, again I have tried to use them in the past but they are only good against flyers and a waste of points if there are none on the board (which happens often) spend those points on more infantry to screen the Armour or heavy weapon mortar teams as I can not imagine a more appropriate fluff unit than that for urban combat. In my opinion this doesn't "cheese" the army much, you still have a great narrative here and modeling can make it mesh together well AND be something that will win you some battles.

Oh hey, thanks! I wasn't expecting to get a reply at this point lol

Models with the [Enginseer] tag specifically do not count against having a doctrine according to the rulebook, and although the admech ones are a little more expensive because HQ tax I figured it was agreat way to fit them in. Unless this has been patched, from everything I've been reading it should still work, right?

Yeah, I get what you're saying with cadians. I might be able to figure out the sponsons for pask, but at the moment the kitbashed models I'm using as Leman Russes don't fit sponsons well.

I get what you're saying about the exterminator and hydra, and although originally my thought was for armegeddon to do exactly what you thought I was doing I guess I expected there to be more -1 AP weapons like the autocannon on tables.

Here's an updated list from your suggestions and a couple others, let me know what you think if you have the time!

Supreme Command Detachment - 1CP (Catachan)
Minotaur Artillery Tank - Lord of War 296pts
Twin Earthshaker Cannons, 2 x Heavy Bolter
Smoke, Heavy Armor, Steel Behemoth, Explodes, Twin Earthshaker Extra Hits

Tech-Priest Enginseer - HQ 47pts
Omnissian Axe, Laspistol, Servo-Arm
Bionics, Master of Machines

Tech-Priest Enginseer - HQ 47pts
Omnissian Axe, Laspistol, Servo-Arm
Bionics, Master of Machines

Primaris Psyker - HQ 46pts
Laspistol, Force Stave
For Your Own Good, Power Once per Turn, Smite, Nightshroud, Psychic Barrier

Spearhead Detachment - 1CP (Cadian)
Knight Commander Pask - HQ 229pts
Executioner Plasma Cannon, Lascannon, Storm Bolter
Smoke, Grinding Advance, Tank Order x 2, Vents, Explodes, Track Guards

Leman Russ Conqueror - Heavy Support 157pts
Conqueror Battle Cannon, Co-Axial Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter
Smoke, Grinding Advance, Vents, Explodes

Leman Russ Conqueror - Heavy Support 157pts
Conqueror Battle Cannon, Co-Axial Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter
Smoke, Grinding Advance, Vents, Explodes

Leman Russ - Heavy Support 150pts
Punisher Gatling Cannon, Heavy Bolter
Smoke, Grinding Advance, Vents, Explodes


Battalion Detachment - 3CP (Cadian[?])
Company Commander - HQ 30pts
Laspistol, Chainsword, Frag Grenades
Command x 2, Refractor Field

Company Commander - HQ 30pts
Laspistol, Chainsword, Frag Grenades
Command x 2, Refractor Field

Commissar - Elites 31pts
Boltgun
Aura of Discipline, Summary Execution

Infantry Squad - Troops (10 Men) 40pts
9 x Lasgun, Frag Grenades
Sergeant: Laspistol, Chainsword, Frag Grenades

Infantry Squad - Troops (10 Men) 40pts
9 x Lasgun, Frag Grenades
Sergeant: Laspistol, Chainsword, Frag Grenades

Infantry Squad - Troops (10 Men) 40pts
9 x Lasgun, Frag Grenades
Sergeant: Laspistol, Chainsword, Frag Grenades

Infantry Squad - Troops (10 Men) 40pts
9 x Lasgun, Frag Grenades
Sergeant: Laspistol, Chainsword, Frag Grenades

Artemia Hellhound Squadron - Fast Attack (3 Artemia Hellhounds) 237pts
3 x Artemia Inferno Cannons, 3 x Heavy Bolter
Smoke, Fuel Explosion, Artemia Inferno Cannon

Armored Sentinels - Fast Attack (3 Sentinels) 150pts
3 x Multilaser
Smoke, Explodes

Sentinel Powerlifters (3 Sentinels) - Heavy Support 135pts
3 x Powerlifter Weapons
Smoke, Scout, Explodes

Trojan Support Vehicle - Transport 98pts
Heavy Bolter
Smoke, Support Vehicle, Explodes

I don't think that's quite right with the enginseers, but going off my head here. Will have to check later.

Having sponsons on russes often depends on what regiment you are I think. Generally I think they're worth it if you can afford it but if you're tallarn or cadian then it's definitely better. Tallarn can move and shoot, and cadians want to stand still already. So I'd suggest trying to fit some in. Also i don't think track guards on Pask is necessary. The commissar isn't much help, a command squad with a standard is probably better. It's okay to have infantry squads with no heavy weapon, but to take no special weapon (...plasmagun) drops their potency a lot. Sentinels are a bit meh, multilasers are also a bit meh. I'd consider dropping multilasers sentinels to get specials on you let infantry squads and sponsons on your russes.

You may also want to think about what you battalion is doing. Cadian would suggest gunline. Which would suggest static infantry squads, so there's no reason not to put heavy weapons in there. If you want them to just stick around on objectives, vahallan does that. Form a counter charge line for your tanks, mordian. Or do some fire-fighting, Armageddon, the extra 6" rapid fire is pretty noticeable. My thoughts are you probably want mordian to fit with your theme. If you keep them close and have a standard nearby they're Ld9, so pretty stable and fend off assaulters better. Plus their regiment strategem let's FRFSRF lasguns put out a potentially frightening amount of shots. Each 6 to hit let's you shoot again with the same gun. So could be another 4 shots for each 6 at 12". Netting you an average 60 lasgun shots from 9 guys (at 12" with FRFSRF and strategem).

Much appreciate the reply, thank you.

If I can find some sort of sponson-like bits/options for the chassis I'm using, I'll give it greater consideration (especially for Pask) since 80% of the reason the tanks are Cadian is so I can take him. My thought with the track guards was keeping him mobile enough to ensure he gets to keep spewing orders until he dies, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on that part.

I wasn't aware of the commissar FAQ until today, so I am now fully aware of how useless they are. Thinking of replacing him with an Astropath since Astropaths are much, much more useful. Might be able to free up points for a potential standard as well. Another option is using the Commissar Command tank stratagem to boost the leadership for sort of free.

I was planning on only using the infantry for body blocking and FRFSRF, but considering how cheap the plasmagun is for them I'll definitely give it more thought.

Yeah, the ML sentinels were put in for a mix of things that don't really equal a good reason now that you mention it. I wanted them to be capable anti-infantry and to tie down units in CC if necessary, but another unit of powerlifters could potentially do that though thematically and cheese-wise I think that might be overdoing it on my part. If I had just a few points more I'd add an additional Russ I think, but I don't so trying to figure out what to do there. The sponsons/specials is definitely worth thinking about though.

I just read over the Valhallan and Mordian rules, they hadn't really clicked in my mind the first time. The Valhallan rules seem pretty rad with the casualty reduction and ensuring vehicles stay functional much longer. Mordian sounds alright but I don't think I want to deal with keeping them constantly base to base, so I'm iffy on them even though they otherwise sound tentatively ok. Armeggedon was my original thought for the 18" rapid fire and the vehicle bonus, but the other guy pointed out they're not going to be getting shot by -1 AP much in all likelihood so I'm unsure with that as well.
The massive volume of lasgun fire does sound ridiculous though!

It's reasonably easy to keep base contact, the only thing you have to take into consideration is how you remove casualties from enemy shooting. But sounds like you may want vahallan more. But you can still keep the russes cadian.

Checked the enginseers thing, does seem a bit grey. It doesn't specify the keyword, just the name. But they have the same name. So... Maybe.