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So during the War in Heaven the Brainboyz/Old Ones created the Krork and Eldar races to fight the C'tan and Necrons. The Krork are said to be what the Orks used to be. Is there any evidence that supports this in the lore? If so were the Eldar and Orks once allies? What happened to cause the Orks and Eldar to stop being allies?

I imagine most of this will be speculation. The most I can think of is that the Krork began to devolve into the Orks causing the Eldar to look down upon them. Or that the Eldar and Krork were created separately without knowing of each other's existence. The Old Ones basically creating them to fight the Necrons on different fronts.

From the lore as I understand it the Eldar were the foot troops that fought alongside the Old Ones while the Orks were treated as a bioweapon; they didn't build Ork armies and lead them into battle, they dumped Orks onto a Necron planet to wreck it/keep it busy. Asking "why did the Orks and the Eldar stop being allies?" is kind of like asking "why do virus bombs work on humans?", the Orks were built to be uncooperative and belligerent towards everyone (presumably to avoid leaving the Necrons the capacity to subvert them in some way).

Yes, the orks were a weapon. Actually it's that fungus that's the weapon. It's a self perpetuating aggressive plant that sprouts not just Orks but also their slaves, food, drink, economy all grows too for the benefit of the Orks. The fungus competes aggressively with and wiping out local flora for the nutrients and minerals to grow these beasts that wipe out local fauna. The planet gets terraformed in the long run. Knowledge and aptitude is hardwired into their dna which unlocks the more Orks are unified and by the time they overpopulated a world they can build spaceship and continue their infestation on other worlds. Throw on a heavy dash of race wide gestalt psykic shenanigans and poof they have a super weapon that takes care of itself. Fire and forget. ...except 60 some million years later that weapon is still taking care of itself.

Other than the similarity of their names, I've never seen any official source state that the Kork and the Orks are the same species. It is a widely believed theory on the internet though.

We know that the Blood axes used to rule the entirety of the Ork race, as they are much more diplomatic than the rest of the klans we can assume that the Ork race became much more belligerent after they lost control.

In addition, in the War of the Beast books the unified Orks attempt to negotiate the surrender of Terra with the High Lords. The destruction visited upon them over the millennia since the War in Heaven has resulted in a very fractured authority structure that makes diplomacy difficult.

 Kroem wrote:
Other than the similarity of their names, I've never seen any official source state that the Kork and the Orks are the same species. It is a widely believed theory on the internet though.

We know that the Blood axes used to rule the entirety of the Ork race, as they are much more diplomatic than the rest of the klans we can assume that the Ork race became much more belligerent after they lost control.

In addition, in the War of the Beast books the unified Orks attempt to negotiate the surrender of Terra with the High Lords. The destruction visited upon them over the millennia since the War in Heaven has resulted in a very fractured authority structure that makes diplomacy difficult.

Do we know that the Blood Axes ruled the other klans, or just that they were more powerful at one point? I know Da Big Party disrupted the Blood Axes, but were they rulers, or just dominant?

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
So during the War in Heaven the Brainboyz/Old Ones created the Krork and Eldar races to fight the C'tan and Necrons. The Krork are said to be what the Orks used to be. Is there any evidence that supports this in the lore? If so were the Eldar and Orks once allies? What happened to cause the Orks and Eldar to stop being allies?

I imagine most of this will be speculation. The most I can think of is that the Krork began to devolve into the Orks causing the Eldar to look down upon them. Or that the Eldar and Krork were created separately without knowing of each other's existence. The Old Ones basically creating them to fight the Necrons on different fronts.

Both amounted to psychic cannon fodder for the Old Ones. Anything tied to the Warp, the Old Ones weaponized it in a bid to beat the C'Tan and their Necron stooges. Both were engineered by the Old Ones with that in mind.


Both races are far more similar than either will admit to. Both have some physical traits in common (the pointed ears, odd eyes by Human standards, unnatural physical builds), both have inherent and powerful psychic talents that would unlikely come naturally, and both have a serious case of the "bad attitude syndrome". That may also be a side effect of the Old Ones' meddling.

Krorks are mentioned most recently in Fabius Bile- Clonelord as there is one in Trazyn's museum.

“That is the largest ork I’ve ever seen,’ Savona murmured, staring up at a towering, twelve-metre-tall monstrosity that loomed in a nearby nook. ‘And his weaponry…’ The frozen creature wore a crude exoskeleton far in advance of anything the orks now might conceive of. Indeed, from his initial examination, Fabius suspected that it might be in advance of his own battleplate.
‘A krork,’ he murmured. ‘One of the first orks. I read about them in the aeldari texts. I have long theorised that the orks are a form of organic weapons system – a rogue biological agent, unleashed during some ancient apocalyptic conflict. There’s too much about their internal workings that seems designed, rather than evolved.”

twelve-metre-tall

Did someone confuse metres and feet?

 Crimson wrote:

twelve-metre-tall

Did someone confuse metres and feet?

Why is implausible the proto-Orks would be that large?

A 12ft tall Ork would probably be less impressive seeing as most of the more powerful warlords are that big.

 Crimson wrote:

twelve-metre-tall

Did someone confuse metres and feet?

Probably not. 12 feet would be tall, but not 'the tallest Ork I've ever seen' tall. 12 meters would inspire awe and would make more sense contextually. These ancient Orks are supposed to make modern Orks look like children.

 Kriswall wrote:

Probably not. 12 feet would be tall, but not 'the tallest Ork I've ever seen' tall. 12 meters would inspire awe and would make more sense contextually. These ancient Orks are supposed to make modern Orks look like children.

Twelve feet would be considerably bigger than Guilliman, so certainly way bigger than any Ork we've ever seen in 40K. Twelve metres is considerably bigger than Imperial Knight!

 Crimson wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

Probably not. 12 feet would be tall, but not 'the tallest Ork I've ever seen' tall. 12 meters would inspire awe and would make more sense contextually. These ancient Orks are supposed to make modern Orks look like children.

Twelve feet would be considerably bigger than Guilliman, so certainly way bigger than any Ork we've ever seen in 40K. Twelve metres is considerably bigger than Imperial Knight!

In Beast Arises the Prime-Orks range in height. The largest has two battle cannons grafted to its arm. The description is as large as a Titan.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

In Beast Arises the Prime-Orks range in height. The largest has two battle cannons grafted to its arm. The description is as large as a Titan.

Well, that's just absurd. Time to ignore BL stuff again.

 Crimson wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

In Beast Arises the Prime-Orks range in height. The largest has two battle cannons grafted to its arm. The description is as large as a Titan.

Well, that's just absurd. Time to ignore BL stuff again.

It was a warhound in size, and given the tyranids have biotitans, this is no less crazy, we don't know if the giant orks were the "brain boyz" and made this size to fight the C'tan or if they grow to that size over time, either way it's something I would like to see as a "primork" one day.

 Crimson wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

In Beast Arises the Prime-Orks range in height. The largest has two battle cannons grafted to its arm. The description is as large as a Titan.

Well, that's just absurd. Time to ignore BL stuff again.

As the Tyranid stuff is any less absurd hahaha

 Crimson wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

In Beast Arises the Prime-Orks range in height. The largest has two battle cannons grafted to its arm. The description is as large as a Titan.

Well, that's just absurd. Time to ignore BL stuff again.

Even though it’s mentioned in the codex and there is already ton of fluff that confirms Orks get really big if not taken care of, I.e. Ullanor.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

Even though it’s mentioned in the codex and there is already ton of fluff that confirms Orks get really big if not taken care of, I.e. Ullanor.

Well, I think twelve feet if plenty big. It is bigger than Guilliman and way bigger than Ghazghkull

Da Butcha wrote:
Do we know that the Blood Axes ruled the other klans, or just that they were more powerful at one point? I know Da Big Party disrupted the Blood Axes, but were they rulers, or just dominant?

In Waaargh The Orks!, it says "This clan was once very powerful, and easily dominated ork society for a long time." The tone would suggest that the Blood Axes were 'in charge', whether semantically you would want to argue that also means they ruled the orks or not

I still think that every time someone mentions the krork and the old ones a snotling dies