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Hey all, so I am starting a Chaos Daemons army and really I am just wondering which direction I should be taking it
I'm mostly curious as to the viability of each god as a mono faction first before considering combining them. And who's greater daemons are actually worth using and have a chance to make back their points?

How competitive do you want to be?

I've run both Tzeentch and Nurgle Daemons with great success in my local meta. Nurgle is great as they are able to withstand a lot of punishment and keep going. They win through attrition. Tzeentch on the other hand has a lot of shooting prowess. Between Pink Horrors and Exalted flamers they have most situations covered. Additionally Pink Horrors are quite resilient.

I haven't played much Khorne, but throwing down a deep striking unit of blood letters is quite a strong option available to them.

As for Slaanesh, anything they can do Khorne can do better. The exception being Fiends of Slaanesh who can lock a unit in combat. Slaanesh is considered week even in casual environments.

I'm not looking to be GT level competitive but being able to throw down at local tourneys seems like a good spot. Ok so I mostly have tzeentch at the moment so that is good to hear. From the sounds of it I should be able to do well enough as pure tzeentch? Have you had any success using the lord of change? Or should I build mine as kairos?

Burgerzandshakez wrote:
I'm not looking to be GT level competitive but being able to throw down at local tourneys seems like a good spot. Ok so I mostly have tzeentch at the moment so that is good to hear. From the sounds of it I should be able to do well enough as pure tzeentch? Have you had any success using the lord of change? Or should I build mine as kairos?

Both are bad, but the Lord of Change is better than Kairos. Best units in the Tzeentch list are pink horrors, brimstone horrors, and exalted flamers.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

Burgerzandshakez wrote:
I'm not looking to be GT level competitive but being able to throw down at local tourneys seems like a good spot. Ok so I mostly have tzeentch at the moment so that is good to hear. From the sounds of it I should be able to do well enough as pure tzeentch? Have you had any success using the lord of change? Or should I build mine as kairos?

Both are bad, but the Lord of Change is better than Kairos. Best units in the Tzeentch list are pink horrors, brimstone horrors, and exalted flamers.

That's extremely unfortunate. Are bloodthirsters any good?

I would say Lord of Change is OK with the impossible robe (3++ save), and the GUO has some nice staying power. However the big problem with the Greater Daemons is that Chaos Daemons have trouble throwing out threat saturation of the big things. This means that everyone's anti-tank is going to be focused on any Greater Daemons you take.

They work OK if you do manage it though (I have a list with 9 burning chariots of Tzeentch), but you run into other problems such as not having enough bodies for objectives, etc.

It all comes down to your local meta. Depending on how much AT people bring you might find the greater daemons to be extremely effective.

LoC isn't bad at all, he's just a bit underpowered in offence. S6 really hurts him, with his only way of buffing it being a 1/3 chance with Boon of Change. He's an obligatory warlord choice, though, to get the robe and -1 damage warlord trait, imo. L10 buff for daemons around him is a great power too, for the hords and hords of pinks you'll be running if you go tzeentch.

If I was starting again, I'd consider Khorne daemons with a World Eater detachment, as Bezerkers in Rhinos are a) amazing and b) so so much fun.

grouchoben wrote:
LoC isn't bad at all, he's just a bit underpowered in offence. S6 really hurts him, with his only way of buffing it being a 1/3 chance with Boon of Change. He's an obligatory warlord choice, though, to get the robe and -1 damage warlord trait, imo.

QFT.

The LOC is a beast with the Robe and -1 damage Warlord Trait. Even if it's the only "big target" on the table, he will be very hard to take down. It's lacking in offensive power true, but he's a lot more resilient than anything else Daemons have to offer (even a GUO). Beware of Mortal Wounds though (Wrath of Mars for example). Take Infernal Gateway and Boon of Change and you're good to go. Smite + Infernal Gateway can be devastating.

PS : Kairos, however, sucks. Like almost all Named Characters, his Warlord trait is crap and he's less than HALF as durable as the above mentionned Lord of change (it takes 20 Lascannon shots to down him vs 43 for the LOC).

Ok this is all really good information. Maybe I'll get some khorne together as well and try. Both. I was really liking the sound of a LoC with the robes and incorporeal form too so I am glad people are liking that combo. I'd also like to try a bloodthirster with armor of scorn. Theres just somerhing about the insensate rage bloodthirster that makes me want to run him really bad.

I like running Thirsters too...

Just need to have other resilient threats on the table.

In my case I have a list with Mortarion/Magnus...and I simply DS the thirster 9" away and a big blob of Pink horrors.

Who should your opponent focus on first? Because you have to commit to one to reliably nuke in one turn....

The GUO, LoC, and BY are all durable enough for what thwy do.

The Loc as mentioned above needs no explaining. Playboy as folks above said. Take the sword though.

GUO is nice because he brings his own miasma. The flail doesn't really do much of anything. Just take the bile blade to make sure you get the heal off. Then take an offensive spell based on your opponwnt. Usually wither stream, virulwnce, or nurgle for. The bileblade lets you more reliably cast miasma which is super importsnt, and let's you get off those power spells in later turns. Always deep strike this one in as no miasma makes it a very squishy model.

BT is also durable with armor of scorn. 3+/4++ does a long enough way to keep your BT around.

With all 3 most armies struggle to take down more than one. Even eldar right now struggles to take down one on the first place. The thing the 3 don't bring is good anti horde damage. So you'll want to bring something with stro ng anti horde damage output.

I'm building a similar list that is stacked with greater daemons and princes so I'm wondering what those sources of anti horde would be in a daemon list?

lucas wrote:
I'm building a similar list that is stacked with greater daemons and princes so I'm wondering what those sources of anti horde would be in a daemon list?

Pinks and Blood letters both have pros and cons.

I prefer pinks with reinforcement points and 4 CP to allow splitting, deep striking, and 1 auto pass morale. HAve some flamers in your pocket. If your opponent doesn't dent your reinforcement pool much just summon some flamers and punish your opponent with more damage to the face.

Pinks need heralds with bfufs, with blood letters are more independent.

Is there merit to using both? Pinks to make the hole and letters to run through it and back up the juicy bits?

Burgerzandshakez wrote:
Is there merit to using both? Pinks to make the hole and letters to run through it and back up the juicy bits?

Sure and some have used it to thier success, but my thought is why not just have one do both things?? More pink more shooting or more blood letter more charging.

There are definitly merits to doing eother.

mmimzie wrote:
The GUO, LoC, and BY are all durable enough for what thwy do.

The Loc as mentioned above needs no explaining. Playboy as folks above said. Take the sword though.

GUO is nice because he brings his own miasma. The flail doesn't really do much of anything. Just take the bile blade to make sure you get the heal off. Then take an offensive spell based on your opponwnt. Usually wither stream, virulwnce, or nurgle for. The bileblade lets you more reliably cast miasma which is super importsnt, and let's you get off those power spells in later turns. Always deep strike this one in as no miasma makes it a very squishy model.

BT is also durable with armor of scorn. 3+/4++ does a long enough way to keep your BT around.

With all 3 most armies struggle to take down more than one. Even eldar right now struggles to take down one on the first place. The thing the 3 don't bring is good anti horde damage. So you'll want to bring something with stro ng anti horde damage output.

Am I missing something somewhere? How does a GUO get miasma, heal and an offensive spell? He only gets to take 2 spells?

I feel like daemons are nerfed compared to their previous codices - I see them down there with armies like Admech now.

kilfrg7864 wrote:

mmimzie wrote:
The GUO, LoC, and BY are all durable enough for what thwy do.

The Loc as mentioned above needs no explaining. Playboy as folks above said. Take the sword though.

GUO is nice because he brings his own miasma. The flail doesn't really do much of anything. Just take the bile blade to make sure you get the heal off. Then take an offensive spell based on your opponwnt. Usually wither stream, virulwnce, or nurgle for. The bileblade lets you more reliably cast miasma which is super importsnt, and let's you get off those power spells in later turns. Always deep strike this one in as no miasma makes it a very squishy model.

BT is also durable with armor of scorn. 3+/4++ does a long enough way to keep your BT around.

With all 3 most armies struggle to take down more than one. Even eldar right now struggles to take down one on the first place. The thing the 3 don't bring is good anti horde damage. So you'll want to bring something with stro ng anti horde damage output.

Am I missing something somewhere? How does a GUO get miasma, heal and an offensive spell? He only gets to take 2 spells?

Nah you just take miasma + offensive spell or heal depending on what you feel will be more impactful. Lol some times I get ahead of myself (all the time) when I'm typing on my phone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Primark G wrote:
I feel like daemons are nerfed compared to their previous codices - I see them down there with armies like Admech now.

Maaaaybe?? I don't think so. My daemons feels alot more consistent than my admwch did. My admwch felt alot like I was trying to do stuff but it was always to clunky or just plain not worth doing.

My daemons the plans I lay out work well, and the only times I do poorly are because i made mistakes, and not so much that my list has let me down.

Even more so in ITC , where my list is designed to grab up old school/head hunter/ recon and it does as much very reliably. Admech I really only can take the secondaries that are given to me.

In none ITC admech are abit less nerfed by the fornat, but even then admech struggles alot when it comes to just getting around, and making obj sec worth a damn. Where as my daemons have access to nurglings and brim stones that feel like better objective grabbers, and my greater daemons seem to be hard enough to deal with they they end up also helping to secure mid field and enemy objectives depending on the army I'm going against.

The only issue in having now with my list is more just shifting between bigger nurgling force (with heldrakes) or a large pink horror force (with two forcement points).

The large pink horror force makes me more flexible ling with through survivability of those models, and the ability to convert the reinforcement point I to flamers for extra damage later In the game, and also is really good at getting first blood. However the cp tax means I have to bring lots of small squads that makes killing more units difficult in ITC/kill point missions, as the force has 6x 3man nurgling squads and 2x 10man brim squads

The nurgling force is abit goofy. It lets me have more larger units. Namely units of 6 nurglings. These nurgling squads along with the heldrake work together to grab first blood. It has fewer easy to take down units. While the heldrakes make head hunter easier to pull off as they work my greater daemons to strike at all exposed enemy has. This one also has a slightly tougher time with big horde squads.

I refuse to accept this Slaanesh not being good nonsense. We shall herald his/her name and bring glory and death to the battlefield in the Prince of Excesses name!

Pure mono demons army are viable obly fir local minor tournaments, right now chaos is strong cause it mix, classical Chaos soup, btw demons are fun to play and nurgle/tzeentch are more than decent

So this was helpful to read, but may i follow on and clarify a few things.

I am looking to add Tzeentch to my Khorne - mono hasnt been doing great for me and i am looking for some shooting, psychic powers and CP's.

Can you guys help me out with some questions:
1/. Are Pink Horrors the only ones worth it ? I was thinking of having a unit of 20 Pink Horrors and 2 units of 10 mixed blue and Brim for 3 troop choices.

2/. Seems like LoC is preferred to Fateweaver - will the LoC be more viable with Khorne , where I will be Bloodletter bombing along with a BT ?

3/. Are Exalted Flamers a must ?

4/. Are Chariot Heralds (Fateskimmers?) a must vs the other HQ choices ? Is a Fluxmaster worth it ?

5/. In the start collecting set, is the Exalted flamer from the chariot kit fieldable as just an Exalted Flamer ?

So I am looking at getting:
2x Start Collecting
1x Blue/Brim Box
1x Lord of Change

Thoughts?

Cheers

commandojimbob wrote:
So this was helpful to read, but may i follow on and clarify a few things.

I am looking to add Tzeentch to my Khorne - mono hasnt been doing great for me and i am looking for some shooting, psychic powers and CP's.

Can you guys help me out with some questions:
1/. Are Pink Horrors the only ones worth it ? I was thinking of having a unit of 20 Pink Horrors and 2 units of 10 mixed blue and Brim for 3 troop choices.
they are a must. I would field more than 20, this way you can eliminate more losses from the blue and brimstones

2/. Seems like LoC is preferred to Fateweaver - will the LoC be more viable with Khorne , where I will be Bloodletter bombing along with a BT ?

I've read mixed things from people on the LoC. To buff your units and provide some okay melee, sure. I am indifferent on taking two GD's

3/. Are Exalted Flamers a must ?

last edition when I used them, their range was just their downfall. It's still too short in my opinion.

4/. Are Chariot Heralds (Fateskimmers?) a must vs the other HQ choices ? Is a Fluxmaster worth it ?

for potential CC threat, yes

5/. In the start collecting set, is the Exalted flamer from the chariot kit fieldable as just an Exalted Flamer ?

should be

So I am looking at getting:
2x Start Collecting
1x Blue/Brim Box
1x Lord of Change

Thoughts?

Cheers

My thoughts in bold, but a more exp. vet can chime in

I've been out of the loop since the start of the edition, but am saddened to hear that Slannesh is non-viable. What exactly makes this so? I'm so used to Slannesh being Khorne +1. Has Khorne found a way to get into combat or something?

Asura Varuna wrote:
I've been out of the loop since the start of the edition, but am saddened to hear that Slannesh is non-viable. What exactly makes this so? I'm so used to Slannesh being Khorne +1. Has Khorne found a way to get into combat or something?

Khorne does indeed have a way into combat. You can deep strike Bloodletters (or any Daemon unit) using one of the universal stratagems in the codex.

Well, I think Chaos can be GT viable you just need to be Nurgle or Tzeentch. This guy called his list Death Guard, but looking at it I think it's more like a Nurgle Chaos list.

https://miniheadquarters.com/rosters/details/3-adepticon-chaos

He got 1st place at Adepticon.

Audustum wrote:
Well, I think Chaos can be GT viable you just need to be Nurgle or Tzeentch. This guy called his list Death Guard, but looking at it I think it's more like a Nurgle Chaos list.

https://miniheadquarters.com/rosters/details/3-adepticon-chaos

He got 1st place at Adepticon.

He got fourth actually. But yes the list is still quite good. First was Tyranids and second was a cultist horde list from Nanavati’s CSM. Third was also Tyranids


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok so here’s the down low on greater daemons:

If they can get a 4++ or better, they are competitively viable. If they can’t, they aren’t. Bloodthirster with an armor of scorn? Ok. If you really need him to live, 2 CP gives him a 3++.

Lord of change with -1 damage and the 3++? Sure. He isn’t as punchy as the Bloodthirster but he casts well. Sadly, Kairos is just a worse and less durable version of the lord of change.

If you really want to be competitive, though, grab daemon princes. The Khorne one can take skullreaver (AMAZING) because he is an untargetable character, so no need for the armor of scorn. The thousand sons one (great warlord in a soup detachment) can be 3++ and take a relic that gives you 5+ to get a CP when your opponent uses a stratagem. Daemons are very CP hungry so this is beautiful.

Bloodletters are a great troop choice. Give them banner, instrument, and icon if points allow. Deep strike. Wrap so your opponent can’t fall back. Profit. Fight twice if need be.

Pink horrors are great anti horde shooting. Brimstones are beautiful cheap troop choices.

Even Plaguebearers are stupidly durable and have some of the best layered buffs available.

Exalted flamers aren’t auto-take but being untargetable is VERY good. I would recommend basically any HQ slot that you can take be untargetable.

The nice thing about the start collecting box is that you can build the exalted flamer from it without putting it on a chariot so it’s still untargetable.