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So given the Last Unannounced Debacle that occurred in Commorragh with Khaine's Gate opening and literally all hell breaking lose, with parts of the city destroyed, and Vecht's power diminished.. a question was asked among my friends What if Another Faction Assaulted Commorragh in its weakened state?

My own thoughts went one step further "Yeah...but would it really matter to anyone but the Dark Elves?"

So i guess those are the two questions at hand:

1.) Whether we are talking about a Hive Fleet that popped out of Nowhere, a Necron Dynasty who decided to march everyone through a Dolmen Gate into the City, a Black Crusade aimed at seizing Commorragh for Chaos as part of a multiple step plan (lookin at you Tzeentch), a gigantic Ork Waaaaggghhh! etc.

Could Commorragh in its current conditional fall?

2.) More importantly - if the Faction was capable of taking the City (at least the major portions of it) - would it have any consequences for the rest of the Universe?

1. No, the Covens aren't weakened in the slightest and over the last 100 years they'v no doubt had plenty of time to grow a lot more Vat grown Kabalites and Wyches. Vects power isn't really diminished either, he may have pulled back to avoid the daemons but the Kabal of the Black Heart didn't take much in the way of losses. There's also now an army of Mandrakes to deal with.

Most importantly, Commorragh isn't a single place but a series of sub realms connected by portals. Any invasion into Commorragh will likely find itself stuck in a sub realm with the portals then turned off with no way to get anywhere else. It will be at that point that the Kabals and Covens unleash their most power pre-fall weapons on the fools.

2. Not much to be honest, the Dark Eldar don't really get too involved with the power struggles of realspace, it would mean a significant reduction in raids though.

Commarragh could never be taken, the sole thing keeping it together was Vects iron will. Commarragh could easily separate though, i imagine a strong enough force could shatter corespur so hard that the rest of the sub-realms uncouple and zip back off to their own section of the webway.

As Imateria said, Commaragh isn't a single place, so even if there was a force powerful enough shatter the Dark Eldar's power base all that would happen is all the cockroaches Vect is keeping under his shoe would scuttle off back into the shadows.

Let's imagine that a race did indeed take Commarragh intact. It would then have access to basically anywhere in the universe...but it wouldn't know which portal went where. The only case I can logically see for destroying Commarragh would be for a Black Crusade to break in (With Ahriman whispering in Abbadon's ear) and then have Ahriman direct the Black crusade through the webway, circumventing a lot of the defences of the Imperium. But there are a LOT of vested interests against that the Harlequins would have rallied almost every goddam eldar in the galaxy to defend it.

I would think that the only Faction that is really able to do this is Chaos Daemons - Vect does have safeguards agaisnt this but if they got enugh footholds in enough places then it would probbaly spiral out of control and result in the destruction of all.

I presume some Chaos cults might be brewing beneath Commorragh, hidden from the eyes of the Overlord. But in honesty, invading Commorragh is like invading Terra itself. The Daemons might cause the amount of damage like Horus Heresy did to Terra, but I can't see how any single faction could invade and fully conquer or destroy Commorragh,

bibotot wrote:
I presume some Chaos cults might be brewing beneath Commorragh, hidden from the eyes of the Overlord. But in honesty, invading Commorragh is like invading Terra itself. The Daemons might cause the amount of damage like Horus Heresy did to Terra, but I can't see how any single faction could invade and fully conquer or destroy Commorragh,

While I will not claim this can not happen, it seems it would happen very rarly, if at all. The base instinct of eldar behvior left unchecked is what spawned slanesh. The hedonistic lifestyle and massive ego that makes up a dark eldar would not lead itself to worshipping something other then themselves.

The fift edition codex states the closer they come to reverence of something are earlier dead dark eldar who performed well in a field. Vect would qualefy for this if he only died.

Also, what is tye trade of for worship? Theyr culture is already sett up for eating pain and soul as a practical thing. What would chaos worship add on the side? It is unlikly they would end up with a bargain that gets them outbof getting eaten by slanesh.

Also, is not the warp weak within the webway?

 Niiai wrote:

bibotot wrote:
I presume some Chaos cults might be brewing beneath Commorragh, hidden from the eyes of the Overlord. But in honesty, invading Commorragh is like invading Terra itself. The Daemons might cause the amount of damage like Horus Heresy did to Terra, but I can't see how any single faction could invade and fully conquer or destroy Commorragh,

While I will not claim this can not happen, it seems it would happen very rarly, if at all. The base instinct of eldar behvior left unchecked is what spawned slanesh. The hedonistic lifestyle and massive ego that makes up a dark eldar would not lead itself to worshipping something other then themselves.

The fift edition codex states the closer they come to reverence of something are earlier dead dark eldar who performed well in a field. Vect would qualefy for this if he only died.

Also, what is tye trade of for worship? Theyr culture is already sett up for eating pain and soul as a practical thing. What would chaos worship add on the side? It is unlikly they would end up with a bargain that gets them outbof getting eaten by slanesh.

Also, is not the warp weak within the webway?

The codexes talk about various bargins with Daemons - often with powerful Dark Eldar - They have had to seel off whole subrealms of the city because of Daemonic incursions - one of Vects fail safes.

Binding yourself to another Chaos god would likely break the soul drain / auto devouring - of course you have to serve them - but then almost all Dark Eldar have to serve someone - whilst plotting to climb up further - its a bit like Skaven.

While I don't think anything is "too big to fail" in 40k, necessarily, if anything comes close it is almost certainly Commorragh.

Remember that, while it is a "single" city, it occupies space in a realm where the concept of space is...different than in the material universe. It's a city that houses the entire galactic population, more or less, of an entire "race" in the setting - plus all of their (we are lead to believe, numerous) slaves.

And while sure, eldar have never been as numerous as other species in the galaxy, but even if we assume the dark eldar population to be only 1/100th of humanity's teeming...trillions? quintillions? decillions? that's still a lot of people to occupy a single city. The place is lit by two captive suns, for crying out loud.

And again as others have pointed out it doesn't even necessarily occupy a single contiguous un-space, being composed of sub-realms and all that can be "shut off" from one another.

So, no, I don't think Commorragh could necessarily "fall". Nor do I think any one faction could "rule" it, either. I don't know that Vect rules it really so much as he just happens to be the most influential individual within the network of Cabals that sort of keep it all running. That doesn't necessarily put him "in charge" per se, just at the top of the heap. There's no central bureaucracy keeping it all together like the Imperium (which is not the best organizational model to begin with); it's just the momentum of various groups and organizations working towards often mutually-beneficial goals that keeps everything afloat.

Vect's in charge because he's the strongest. That's how Commoragh works.

The weakest Kabals are forced to follow the ones above them or die. The same applies for the ones above them and it goes in a chain until you reach Vect whose the strongest. The only difference is Vect has so many safeguards against assassination like clone puppets and stops most Kabals rising up against him through alliances

 Niiai wrote:

bibotot wrote:
I presume some Chaos cults might be brewing beneath Commorragh, hidden from the eyes of the Overlord. But in honesty, invading Commorragh is like invading Terra itself. The Daemons might cause the amount of damage like Horus Heresy did to Terra, but I can't see how any single faction could invade and fully conquer or destroy Commorragh,

While I will not claim this can not happen, it seems it would happen very rarly, if at all. The base instinct of eldar behvior left unchecked is what spawned slanesh. The hedonistic lifestyle and massive ego that makes up a dark eldar would not lead itself to worshipping something other then themselves.

The fift edition codex states the closer they come to reverence of something are earlier dead dark eldar who performed well in a field. Vect would qualefy for this if he only died.

Also, what is tye trade of for worship? Theyr culture is already sett up for eating pain and soul as a practical thing. What would chaos worship add on the side? It is unlikly they would end up with a bargain that gets them outbof getting eaten by slanesh.

Also, is not the warp weak within the webway?

The Dark Eldar used to have worshipping cults. It's NOT their nature to not have this anymore. Remember, the Dark Eldar are remnants of the old Eldar Empire, and there are many depraved cults in the Empire when it collapsed. Overlord Vect bans all cults (except the cult of personality with him as the atom).

The bottom of Commorragh is just like the bottom of an Imperial Hive City, probably many times worse.

GrapeApe wrote:
So given the Last Unannounced Debacle that occurred in Commorragh with Khaine's Gate opening and literally all hell breaking lose, with parts of the city destroyed, and Vecht's power diminished.. a question was asked among my friends What if Another Faction Assaulted Commorragh in its weakened state?

My own thoughts went one step further "Yeah...but would it really matter to anyone but the Dark Elves?"

So i guess those are the two questions at hand:

1.) Whether we are talking about a Hive Fleet that popped out of Nowhere, a Necron Dynasty who decided to march everyone through a Dolmen Gate into the City, a Black Crusade aimed at seizing Commorragh for Chaos as part of a multiple step plan (lookin at you Tzeentch), a gigantic Ork Waaaaggghhh! etc.

Could Commorragh in its current conditional fall?

Commorragh is larger than large. It isn't a city, or even a planet, or even a system. It contains 4 whole stars and yet is in perpetual darkness. Even if it was limited to just 3 dimensions it would be bigger than a dysonsphere, and it isnt limited to 3 dimensions.

A hive fleet or Necron Dynasty or even really a black crusade or Waaaaggh lack the size to do anything more than inflict damage. They will be repulsed without fail.

The only thing that could have had a chance was unified humanity at the end of the great crusade. This is what Big E was preparing for after he conquered the galaxy, and even the living god at the height of his power had to plan for decades and build up forces to even attempt it. And remember, the DE were at their weakest right after the fall, at the birth of slannesh. In the 10,000 years since they have only grown stronger.

You can't invade Commorragh.

That would end the dark eldar and that wouldn't do because... well, that would end the dark eldar.

... Seriously. Don't they have other cities as well? My knowledge of dark eldar lore is lacking but Commorragh sounds a bit... complacent.

Dark Eldar are, above all else, survivors - I'm sure there's dozens if not more different leaders ready to split at a moments notice, together with their favorite corner of the dark realm. They won't stand and fight for Vect if they can instead save their own lives - their loyalty to Vect is dependent on him providing them a nice place to live.

An invasion that looks dangerous enough would probably end Comorragh as it is today, but the amount captured wouldn't be much. It would disintegrate, pieces flung back to their original place or lost when ancient weapons are unleashed, while the rank-and-file scurry to escape like rats leaving a sinking ship. Once the smoke clears there's no more Comorragh (though Vect, if he survives, will likely call whatever he has left that) but instead dozens of splinter cities spread out across the galaxy. Congratulations, the Dark Eldar are now even harder to track down and destroy.

Invading Commorragh would be one of the hardest if not the hardest thing to do in 40k. It is in the Webway, so you can't even enter it without the Dark Eldar's permission. Then if you somehow do find a way inside, Commorragh is made up of many different realms. So if you do manage to take a realm it simply is cut off from the rest of the Webway and you are trapped there.
Invading the Realms of Chaos would probably be an easier task.

Well you could try and get the other Eldar to let you into the Webway. Then just wander until you find it.

Invading Chaos isn't a great comparison because getting into their realms is really easy with all the Warp Storms.

pm713 wrote:
Well you could try and get the other Eldar to let you into the Webway. Then just wander until you find it.

Some webway passages are entirely cut off from the rest of the network. Other webway tunnels double-back on themselves, or lead to (in ascending order of badness) [death worlds / the empty vacuum of space / hostile craftworlds / the very heart of Hell itself]. You then have to spend a while trying to [ find the next entrance / not die].

Well I was being simplistic. You do wander for a long time before finding Commoragh/dying/both.

Mallich wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Well you could try and get the other Eldar to let you into the Webway. Then just wander until you find it.

Some webway passages are entirely cut off from the rest of the network. Other webway tunnels double-back on themselves, or lead to (in ascending order of badness) [death worlds / the empty vacuum of space / hostile craftworlds / the very heart of Hell itself]. You then have to spend a while trying to [ find the next entrance / not die].

The DE maintain and control the webway. If you invaded it with a large force they might cut and seal the part of it you are in off, or collapse it into the warp.

 Exergy wrote:


The DE maintain and control the webway. If you invaded it with a large force they might cut and seal the part of it you are in off, or collapse it into the warp.

Doesn't that lend support to Mr. Morden's idea that ultimately, its Chaos that has the best chance of doing this?

Its true, you wouldn't "capture" Commorragh, but if you blew holes in the Webway in parts of Commorragh large enough for Daemons to start coming on through.....well the Supply of Warp Entities is Endless.

Hrmm.. I wonder now, Slaanesh has been portrayed in various bits of Fluff and Fiction as thinking of Dark Elder Souls as being a bit of a delicacy since they are so steeped in pain, torture, and pleasure. "She" only gets to Nibble on them but rarely gets the true satisfaction of devouring them whole.


How many Dark Elder Souls does a person have to deliver to Slaanesh in return to being elevated to Daemon Princedom?

In what way do DE control and maintain the Webway? They don't do that and I'm pretty sure they actually can't.

pm713 wrote:
In what way do DE control and maintain the Webway? They don't do that and I'm pretty sure they actually can't.

To my knowledge, aside from the Old Ones who all seem to have gone "poof" the only being whose ever tried to maintain the Webway was the Emperor.

And even he had limitations, The Old Ones created the Webway out of a Psychically-Resistant Material - which no species has the ability to replicate at this time (or perhaps ever since it seems like Miracle-Tech). Hence the whole business with the Golden Throne....

GrapeApe wrote:

 Exergy wrote:


The DE maintain and control the webway. If you invaded it with a large force they might cut and seal the part of it you are in off, or collapse it into the warp.

Doesn't that lend support to Mr. Morden's idea that ultimately, its Chaos that has the best chance of doing this?

Its true, you wouldn't "capture" Commorragh, but if you blew holes in the Webway in parts of Commorragh large enough for Daemons to start coming on through.....well the Supply of Warp Entities is Endless.

Hrmm.. I wonder now, Slaanesh has been portrayed in various bits of Fluff and Fiction as thinking of Dark Elder Souls as being a bit of a delicacy since they are so steeped in pain, torture, and pleasure. "She" only gets to Nibble on them but rarely gets the true satisfaction of devouring them whole.


How many Dark Elder Souls does a person have to deliver to Slaanesh in return to being elevated to Daemon Princedom?

Chaos Daemons would be the only ones who could enter Commorragh uninvited, if the wards are breached. But again, the Dark Eldar would simply seal off whatever subrealm or passage the daemons are in.

pm713 wrote:
In what way do DE control and maintain the Webway? They don't do that and I'm pretty sure they actually can't.

Not all of it. But they do at least control and maintain the subrealms and passages to Commorragh. The Dark Eldar are much more advanced than the Craftworld Eldar. They are also the only ones who can create new passages and temporary portals so they do not have to rely on established ancient Webway portals and nexuses. The fluff clearly shows them being in control of the Webway, although they also seem to lack the ability, resources or will to restore parts of it once they get damaged/breached/destroyed.

That's not true at all. Craftworlders are shown to create temporary portals aplenty and I don't see how a non psychic faction builds psychic things.

Craftworlders do maintain the Webway seeing as theyr'e going around sealing breached areas and exploring locked passageways.

DE don't seem in control at all really. They can do less with the Webway, they know about as much as Craftworlders and they have no hope of fixing the thing.

I thought the Harlequins had superior knowledge of the webway, given their ability to visit craftworlds, exodite worlds and comorragh alike, as well as their library full of naughty scrolls?

TopperHarley wrote:
I thought the Harlequins had superior knowledge of the webway, given their ability to visit craftworlds, exodite worlds and comorragh alike, as well as their library full of naughty scrolls?

Yeah. And there patron god is only one who truly knows it.

That and the map In thr black library iirc

Its strongly hinted at in the new Thousand Sons Codex that Ahriman ist planning on invading Commorragh. To chase after a cure for the rubrics. I don't think Commoragh can be taken and the DE beaten, its just to big a place and with lots of mysterious locations and the Eldar to numerous.

But it imho it is possible for an invader like Ahriman to reach his goals. Especially after the recent events in commorragh.

Considering that commmorragh already had csm as guests in the past, it is possible that he could just buy whatever he wants without going through all the problems trying to invade it would bring.

Jorim wrote:
Considering that commmorragh already had csm as guests in the past, it is possible that he could just buy whatever he wants without going through all the problems trying to invade it would bring.

True. The dark city is not particularly overly bothered by where slaves come from as long as your not slenesh or a psykers.

If you wanted to trade and had ernough resources a deal can be made. Entering the webway would be a tad tricky but it has been done and there are chaos controlled areas of the webway.

Those are the two only absolute rules and bans far as I know.

Even the psyker thing is just a ban on being in Commoragh itself. You could easily trade away slaves outside Commoragh for knowledge. Dark Eldar are not big on ethics.

Commorragh HAS BEEN invaded already by the salamanders ,
Who did a lot of damage , and the “city” had not been recently flooded with deamons , so right now it could be possible to conquer it.
Then again if the conqueror knows how to use the webway the other races are toasted( then again there would be a clown who would probably stop this)