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If you could suck the Daemon out of a Daemonhost and put it in a bag, what kind would it be? Would it be something from the Daemons army list, or something different altogether?

Their current stats (much the same as they were in 3rd) suggest it's at least as powerful as a Herald, but the stats they had in 5th-7th weren't much more than a Lesser Daemon.

.. I don't think there are any rules to this as such..
Cherubael was a daemon prince.

Dark heresy has some fun rules for generating daemon hosts. The strength was based on the number of bindings rather than the source daemon.


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Ooh there's one in black crusade which is a daemonette bound in a dark eldar called a cackling abomination


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Another tidbit is that to bind a daemon you have to know it's name.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Cherubael was a daemon prince.

I'm re-reading Eisenhorn for the 8923rd time and Cherubael's Super Saiyan power level is the reason for the question; seemed to be at odds with how hard Daemonhosts sucked in-game (and still do, I guess).

Where do you find out he's a Daemon Prince? Also how does a single DP take out a Titan?

The codex rules for a daemon host wouldn't necessarily indicate what daemon it really is, other than perhaps lesser daemons having a cap on what they can do. A greater daemon can simply be very firmly bound and thus have little real control over itself, or it could find itself in an area of reality with a weak link to the warp so that it couldn't draw on much power at all.

The host is basically a kind of submarine that allows the daemon to interact with places that are outside of the levels of warp flux that a daemon would otherwise require to manifest. One could also imagine that some hosts are better put together than others, increasing further variance in capability.

 BBAP wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Cherubael was a daemon prince.

I'm re-reading Eisenhorn for the 8923rd time and Cherubael's Super Saiyan power level is the reason for the question; seemed to be at odds with how hard Daemonhosts sucked in-game (and still do, I guess).

Where do you find out he's a Daemon Prince? Also how does a single DP take out a Titan?

It was a newly activated Titan that did not have its voids or anything, Cherubael flew into the cockpit and hilarity ensued.

That titan didn't have it's plot armour up yet.

 chromedog wrote:
That titan didn't have it's plot armour up yet.

SO THATS WHAT VOID SHIELDS ARE?!

They're usually supposed to be Heralds or Daemon Princes.

Sadly, the rules never really caught up with that.

Cherubael doesn't fit neatly into our concept of the Chaos Gods. I think it's mentioned once that he was a 'prince', however I very much doubt he has ever been mortal and we've never had any indication at all that he has a Patron God, which is apart from Be'Lakor as far as I know a requirement for being a Daemon Prince.

I think Cherubael wasn't a Daemon of the 4 Chaos Gods, but some other unaligned entity. He says he remembers the Daemon King who lived in realspace, something the rest of us know nothing about, so it's clear either the Eisenhorn universe is slightly different from the 40K universe or Cherubael is something we haven't encountered yet.

So power wise I'd put him at around Daemon Prince level. He ain't a planet buster, but I'm pretty sure he could level a city unchained and there ain't much around that could stop him bar an express visit from some determined Grey Knights.

From 3rd edition 40k to, man idk, at least until the first Daemons codex was released, princes that didn't have a singular patron god were perfectly possible. You could give them the mark of chaos undivided in both 40K and WHFB without problems. Princes needing one of the big four to exist is new.

Wait... Princes needing a single patron to ascend is a thing now?

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Cherubael doesn't fit neatly into our concept of the Chaos Gods. I think it's mentioned once that he was a 'prince', however I very much doubt he has ever been mortal and we've never had any indication at all that he has a Patron God, which is apart from Be'Lakor as far as I know a requirement for being a Daemon Prince.

I think Cherubael wasn't a Daemon of the 4 Chaos Gods, but some other unaligned entity. He says he remembers the Daemon King who lived in realspace, something the rest of us know nothing about, so it's clear either the Eisenhorn universe is slightly different from the 40K universe or Cherubael is something we haven't encountered yet.

So power wise I'd put him at around Daemon Prince level. He ain't a planet buster, but I'm pretty sure he could level a city unchained and there ain't much around that could stop him bar an express visit from some determined Grey Knights.

Since Eisenhorn and the Ravenor series have Enuncia and the Cognitai, they are very much prime 40k universe, Lorgar uses Enuncia and the Cognitai are in Prospero burns.

The Deamon King (Ghul) was forced into real space after it died, its tomb is where Glaw goes to end the 40k universe.

Not all deamons are aligned with the gods, some are older than the gods, Drach'Nyan is an unaligned creature of chaos that is incredibly powerful, more so than any deamon prince ever portrayed before it, it fought the emperor and won, thats crazy.


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 Fafnir wrote:
Wait... Princes needing a single patron to ascend is a thing now?

Nope, just codex nonsense, the greater fluff still has Undivided DP (peturabo and Lorgar) but as GW doesnt make rules for undivided it doesnt show them in the fluff that much anymore, they are still out there though.

*cough* Dan-iverse *cough*

 Demented duo wrote:
*cough* Dan-iverse *cough*

I would say I agreed with this until they started putting his stuff in other books, bloody good writer though.

Cherub ale is a demon Prince though his alignment is never detailed and left in the open..

However, he is a pretty powerful and extremely dangerous one, even thrice bound it defeated a less restricted deamon host. Seems to favour planning but also can be cruel and extremely directly lethal.

Alignment is likely undivided, Petarbo, Logar, belakor, thr majority was however in the aligned aspects.

As for binding deamons, its a very exact and precise task. Getting one rune or symbol wrong and it might easily turn round and slaughter you.

Its one of those particularly risky tasks.
Also there always working to break Thete bonds, work against you. Or worse.

 Formosa wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Cherubael doesn't fit neatly into our concept of the Chaos Gods. I think it's mentioned once that he was a 'prince', however I very much doubt he has ever been mortal and we've never had any indication at all that he has a Patron God, which is apart from Be'Lakor as far as I know a requirement for being a Daemon Prince.

I think Cherubael wasn't a Daemon of the 4 Chaos Gods, but some other unaligned entity. He says he remembers the Daemon King who lived in realspace, something the rest of us know nothing about, so it's clear either the Eisenhorn universe is slightly different from the 40K universe or Cherubael is something we haven't encountered yet.

So power wise I'd put him at around Daemon Prince level. He ain't a planet buster, but I'm pretty sure he could level a city unchained and there ain't much around that could stop him bar an express visit from some determined Grey Knights.

Since Eisenhorn and the Ravenor series have Enuncia and the Cognitai, they are very much prime 40k universe,

Well, that's true. But only because Dan Abnett made them up.

Basically, Cherubael is different to other Chaos entities because Dan Abnett's idea of Chaos is somewhat different to other authors', or he's more comfortable making things up - see also the flects, the way the chaos forces in the Gaunt's Ghosts series behave and the things like stalk-tanks and wirewolves and whatnot that we never see anywhere else.

Lorgar uses Enuncia and the Cognitai are in Prospero burns.

Prospero Burns is also by Dan Abnett; that would explain the Cognitae appearing.

It looks like daemonhosts are a form of possession forced by a third party, binding the possessing daemon and the possessed host to limit the power of the daemon. Unbound, Cherubael would probably be a powerful greater daemon or something of equivalent power