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Tell me about FOW. All I know is that its a 15mm(?) miniature WW2 game. That interestes me a bit by itself. But, how is the game played? Is it similar to Warhamemr style games? How much do things cost? Whats the average points value? Are there some godarmies like 40k's marines? Whats the scope of the game? What do I need to start out?

Try this one:

FOW Boot Camp

It plays quite a bit like 40k with an I go U go system that involves the same Move/Shoot/Assault format. unit statistics are simple and streamlined with a morale and training level being your only two real stats, and then your ROF/AT/FP. Vehicles have much the same armour style as in 40k with the addition of top armour to use vs. things like aircraft etc. In fact, armour penetration is exactly the same as in 40k except the dice rolling is backwards (you roll to hit the tank, your opponent rolls d6 per hit and adds his armour value. If he beats your AT rating then the shot bounces. If he equals it he is glanced and bails out and if he can't beat it the armour is penetrated and you make a firepower test).

Armylist creation also mirrors 40k with briefings requiring an HQ and 2 Combat Platoons as minimums, then you can add weapons platoons and divisional support up to certain maximums.

As for 'godlike' armies... there's really no such thing in this game apart from MAYBE the cheapo Chruchill/Infantry horde and the occasional light tank horde. They're tough as they play to maximums but they're not unbeatable. Army composition in FOW mirrors Epic Armageddon very strongly in that you need a balance of Anti Tank, infantry to take objectives and artillery/mortars to drop smoke or pound the ground. Air can also play a part as it INCREDIBLY dangerous to tanks but can be unreliable.

FOW is a fun little game. Armies will cost you the same as a 40k/Fantasy army unless you do something weird like make an army of 5 Panzer IV's and 3 Ferdinands.... Even that will cost you about $120 bucks for 1500pts. Army deals cost pretty much the same as the GW equivalent (270-300USD). Games are 1500pt standard but can go larger with multiple companies.

Hm looks interesting but I'm not sure I'm one with the scale...maybe in the future thuogh. In the meantime are there any 28mm ww2 miniature games?

Mmmm... There are... but not one's I enjoy playing.

Well I might give it a chance...seems pretty expensive though.

That's miniature games for you. Be thankful you don't play RAGNOROK.

Well, if I'm interested in fielding an american armoured infantry company, what should I invest in? Or failing that, german SS?

It's the best WW2 game out there, IMHO, because it's playable, affordable, you can find both the models to play, and opponents to play it with.

It's quite a bit cheaper than building a 40k or fantasy army.

There is no 'godarmy'. Things are very well balanced out. You will see a lot more germans than anything else. No surprise since they were fighting all over the world, and have a huge range of very cool vehicles and guns.

For US armored rifles, start with two boxes of armored rifles. Each box is a full platoon. You will also need a blister of US HQ, and two halftracks for them. I'm not sure if you get all the bazookas you can take in the boxes, you might want to pick up a blister of bazooka. That's the start of your army, after that, you can add several options, including more infantry, weapons platoons, tanks, and artillery.

I just finished a US infantry army, and am moving into a german DAK army.

Well, I shall look into it. I'm working on getting a better job at the moment, as I jsut quit the hospital a little while ago (twerps tried to make me work on graduation night even though we all requested off for it). So once thats in order, I might give this a try--dunnoo how many opponents are in my area, though.

Well don't get me wrong, but this company DOES cost quite a bit to build a force for. Particularly Armoured infantry. My PanzerGrenadiers will end up costing me $108 just for the HALFTRACKS to transport my troops (12 Kfz251/c at $9 bucks US a pop...). You can build a cheap force for FOW... Armoured columns are cheap for example... but not always effective. I've got a Grant British armoured force I'm building and got 1000pts for about $100. That's awesome... but without the extra 500pts of infantry support it's gonna get ROCKED by infantry assaults.

Also, they're about to release Ostfront and Africa briefing books which will replace all the current briefing books available, and a second edition rulebook.

Now the upside is they're sending out free A5 sized books (same size as the Macragge Rulebook) to all owners of the current rules. The downside is... gotta buy the new armybooks.

That's life in gaming though. But I'm not complaning that Rackham replaced all my free rulebooks with CNF3. I love that game and I gladly shelled out the fifty bucks.  Just don't be under illusions that Battlefront is any different from other gaming companies. It's just mostly supported by Historical gamers... who as we all know are genetically superior to every other form of gaming life.  Thus they MUST be the greatest company on earth.

Achilles,

they will post downloads that will update current army books,  so you dont have to buy the new compilations.  I will because it is cheaper, or about the same as buying two army books.  its kinda like getting all the imperial, or enemies of the imperium army lists in one book.

 

Neil

 

Don't get me wrong, I'll buy them too. I'm just saying that Battlefront is just like every other Mini company. They re-release rules, they update armybooks. They do new stuff. They're in the same category as everyone else.

I kind of have to disagree. they are nothing like GW. And that is the meter stick for wargame companies.
First you can get official rules clarifications on their forum, as well as faq's that are always kept updated. their FAQ's do not change rules just clarify.
No book they put out will ever be obsolete. have an old book they give you free updates. they dont charge for them like gw's chapter approved.
they also accept player input for rules and scenarios.

The only simularity I see is that they both charge money for quality miniatures, but then i consider GW way overpriced. and battlefront is right around their competition (other 15mm companies) in price. and with FOW if you want to use some other company's models thats OK you can even use other companys models in sanctioned tourneys. I want to see GW do that.

I could keep going but why... dont get me wrong I like 40K and fantasy. I have been playing them for 15+ years, i just wish Gw would be more like some of the other companys when it comes to customer service.

neil

So.... I could play in a Battlefront Tournament with the British Armoured Company from the old FOW rulebook? Oh no wait... I had to buy desert Rats.

But no... I can still use the US Rifle Company rules right? No... wait.

Sorry dude. I'll just agree to disagree with you on this one. I've been around long enough to know that ALL GAMING COMPANIES ARE THE SAME.

Some are just younger than others.

sorry to burst the bubble, but your question is answered in lessons from the front III.(official FOW Q&A) It says that yes you can use MRB lists just that any force you build must be built from one book. so you cant use the points from the MRB with the stats in the intelligence handbook. Now private tourneys and clubs can restrict lists all they want ie. no more than 1 tiger, allow or disallow airsupport that kinda thing. Heck i went to a local tourney that was contemplating banning Skaven.

I understand where you are coming from. I was the same way, but then i did some investigation. Check out Battlefront before you lump them in with everyone else. I will warn you though that some of the folks on their forums are kinda anal about the historical aspects of the game while others are easy going.

later,
neil

Posted By Achilles on 06/25/2006 10:38 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'll buy them too. I'm just saying that Battlefront is just like every other Mini company. They re-release rules, they update armybooks. They do new stuff. They're in the same category as everyone else.

negatory Privateer Press and Battlefront are far above the gak that GW shovels us

OOOH privateer press, I like them. only complaint was how long it took them to get infantry out.

Well said garthas

neil

I ran into this game at GrailQuest in Jax, I played one demo and got my *donkey*handed to me, I left the con with the Afrika book, a US rifle company, and the Battlefront guy gave me a free paperback rule book. Average price, game balance, a rules system that isn't brokken into a million pieces! Well I'll be damned, playing GW for so long I didn't belive it was possible.

A little late, but I'd like to point out that FoW is also cheaper than GW. FoW's army boxes provide you with a fully functional 1500 point army straight out of the box while GW's "army" deals are a grab bag of the latest release, not necessarilly a functional army. On top of that, there are many, many other manufacturers out there producing 15mm historicals for WW2, many of which are equal quality (in some cases better if you really know your onions) and often less expensive. This also allows for a greater range of infantry to pick from (just be careful, FoW's figs are "chunkier", ie: thicker proportioned) and one will never be wanting except for the most obscure of subjects. That said, I do like FoW's sculpts, particularly their vehicle sculpts, and don't mind paying the premium as it's worth it when painting 'em up.

Lastly, as already mentioned, Battlefront (the makers of FoW) absolutely knocks the socks out of GW's customer service. Errors are immediately corrected, FAQ's are regularly addressed and published to the web, the game designers are regularly on the company's forum and very friendly, and so on so on. I can't talk these guys up enough, they have a great company and put out a fantastic game.

Posted By Achilles on 06/26/2006 9:48 PM
 ALL GAMING COMPANIES ARE THE SAME.




Totally disagree.

1.  People being given the new rules for free.  End of story.   A 164 page full color rule book given to you free.  Mailed to your store free. Mailed to your home free.  Games workshop would never consider this in a million years.  The book is free and you need not buy the other ones.

2.  "Codexes"  are updated on the website giving you ALL the stats you need to keep playing (change in costs, strength, abilities)  I have 2 army books that are perfectly fine from v.1  I can use them to  my hearts content without ever having to buy the updated codexes.

3.  A company that makes a point to clarify its rules at AN OFFICIAL WEBSITE.  They retract broken rules and clarify murky ones.

4.  Free rules, free scenarios, free books,  armies are less expensive than any GW product (and you can find comparable minis from other companies that are even cheaper than FoW products and look almost as good)

Saying that all miniature companies are all the same is just ridiculous.  Does GW do any of the above 4 points?!?!?  They absolutely do not.

If you have any interest in WWII this is a great game.  Easy rules, very playable, well balanced, and excellent support.  My space marines have been collecting dust for the past 6 months.

Interrogator-Chaplain Severus

Posted By Achilles on 06/26/2006 9:48 PM
So.... I could play in a Battlefront Tournament with the British Armoured Company from the old FOW rulebook? Oh no wait... I had to buy desert Rats.

The original rules in the main rule book can't be reused. You do have to spring for one of the codexs.  Those heartless bastards!!!!!

But no... I can still use the US Rifle Company rules right? No... wait.

Yes, yes you can.  Here is a link that effectively updates all the current army books.

http://flamesofwar.com/Article.asp?ArticleID=1141

have a looksee.

Sorry dude. I'll just agree to disagree with you on this one. I've been around long enough to know that ALL GAMING COMPANIES ARE THE SAME.

Some are just younger than others.


What are you on the GW payrolll or something?  Or have you been raked over the coals so long by the big bully on the block that you're just used to the abuse?

Interrogator-Chaplain Severus

I'm also interested in getting into this game.  I would probably be playing it with my 11yo and 8yo sons since I live way out in the sticks and I'm really not close to any games stores.  Do you guys think it would be appropriate for them and easy enough to understand?

Likewise, I understand the game is designed with 1/100 - 15mm figures in mind, but since I won't be mixing with other armies at the game shop, would it be okay to use w/ 1/72 models (...that I already have)?  I really don't have the funds to lay out a couple hundred bucks for a couple of armies.

Thanks!

I'm also interested in getting into this game.  I would probably be playing it with my 11yo and 8yo sons since I live way out in the sticks and I'm really not close to any games stores.  Do you guys think it would be appropriate for them and easy enough to understand?

 

The rules are well written and straightforward, with a lot less loopholes and exceptions than 40K has.  But still as in depth as 40K.  I would guess if you moderated the games it would be playable . . .

Likewise, I understand the game is designed with 1/100 - 15mm figures in mind, but since I won't be mixing with other armies at the game shop, would it be okay to use w/ 1/72 models (...that I already have)?  I really don't have the funds to lay out a couple hundred bucks for a couple of armies.

As long as you don't mind the vehicles looking out of scale, it shouldn't affect game play all that much.

 

 

Hope that helps.

Interrogator-Chaplain Severus

Thanks Severus, that does help quite a bit.

I also have several box sets of 1/72 soldiers for American Infantry, Germans, and even Brits so they shouldn't be too out of scale. I'll probably try to use the official base sizes as well, just to stay a little familiar with the intention of the rules.

btw...most of the vehicles by Battlefront and others appear to be out of scale to me as they are anyway - they look too small for the minis. Is it just me, or do other people feel this way also?

No, Battlefront's vehicles and infantry are indeed the correct scale (1/100-15mm). If anything, they're a little chunkier and larger than they should be, especially when compared to Old Glory, Quality Castings, & QRF, all which are true 1/100. Resistant Roosters and Peter Pig are similar to BF's figs, being of slightly thicker buiild. Not to mention that infantry are always going to be a little out of proportion just so details and such can be picked out without going blind trying to see them.

If cost is a major issue, those alternate figure mfgrs I listed, particularly Old Glory, Quality Castings & QRF, all offer their figs at pretty reasonable prices. Battlefront's infantry is pretty competetively priced as well, as are their one-piece resin vehicles (jeeps, Opel Blitz trucks, etc...), the latter which might even be the cheapest quality 15mm vehicles on the market. Their AFV's are a little high but I think they have the best sculpts on the market at the moment. Old Glory & Quality Castings have some great looking AFV's, though they are sometimes hit or miss (and can be marred by bad castings), just don't try to mix lines in the same unit/platoon, as they will definitely look out of place.

Regarding scale: 1/72 scale figs will not fly at all if you go to some LFGS or tourney and try to use them, as will obviously be out of scale and unplayable as they will be significantly larger than the 1/100 figures everyone else will be using. While if used just at home provided you shouldn't have too many problems provided both armies use the same scale, but you're still going to have scale issues since the game really was written with 15mm or smaller figures in mind. I'd suggest sticking to small sized games (500-1000pts), and playing on a larger table surface. If you're really stuck on the 1/72 scale, I'd also suggest trying some of the 28mm WW2 skirmish games, which would work excellently with 1/72 (and be much cheaper to boot). Enjoy!

For 28mm, Disposable Heroes/Coffin for Seven Brothers is pretty decent and seems like it will scale pretty well. The publisher is Iron Ivan and the gameplay is a typical skirmish game with the exception there is no armor save for infantry. Hit, wound, dead. Cover is very, very important in the game and help keeps your guys alive.

Thanks nyarlathotep! The 1/72 scale figs would definitely be played with at home. I don't ever play at game shops or tourneys. I simply don't have the time or money to devote to keeping on the cutting edge of building competitive armies - nor do I have the time for extensive arguments with the local Rules Lawyer/Power Gamer. It will be quite a test of my patience just playing with my own kids, let alone someone elses or children of the 40yo variety.

I suspect I will purchase a couple of rules books, then try out a couple of small games with the 1/72 figures and tanks that I already have on hand. If the boys do well with that, then I'll consider investing in the 'correct' figures and armies.

Thanks for the heads up 12th Ronin, I'll look into that system.

here is a picture of some of my german forces. the tiger and squad on the right are from oldglory, while the troops on the lefts and panzers are from battlefront.
also in the index somewhere is a shot of a GW tank in the background, so you can get a rough idea of the scale.

st.cr.k12.ia.us/staff/jcobert/jeremys/mywebsite/images/gametableinprogress/hobby006.html